It is still not clear what is all about.
All I know is God and Jesus are Spiritual being.
Did Christ know He was fully God?
- Thread starter glorydaz
- Start date
It is still not clear what is all about.
All I know is God and Jesus are Spiritual being.
marhig
Well-known member
That means to change us to be more like Jesus Christ, Christ is Spirit. We are the body of Christ
marhig
Well-known member
Yes they are meshak, God is Spirit and so is Christ :thumb:
CherubRam
New member
The translation "PRINCE" is most certainly not correct.
minister
noun
minister
שַׂר, מִינִיסטֶר, כּוֹהֵן, כּוֹהֵן דָת, צִיר, רַב
secretary
מַזכִּיר, שַׂר, מַזכִּירָה, לַבלָר
ruler
שָׁלִיט, סַרְגֵל, מוֹשֵׁל, אָדוֹן, נָגִיד, שַׂר
captain
סֶרֶן, קַפִּיטָן, קַבַּרנִיט, רַב חוֹבֵל, רֹאשׁ, רֹאשׁ קְבוּצָה
commander
מְפַקֵד, אָדוֹן, נָגִיד, שַׂר, טַפסָר
chancellor
נָגִיד, שַׂר, נָשִׂיא אוּנִיבֶרסִיטָה
vizier
וָזִיר, שַׂר
chief
רֹאשׁ, רֹאשׁ, מְפַקֵד, נָשִׂיא, מַנהִיג, אָב
head
רֹאשׁ, קָדקוֹד, מוֹחַ, גוּלגוֹלֶת, מַנהִיג, פִּסגָה
prince
נָסִיך, נָגִיד, נָשִׂיא, שַׂר
minister
noun
minister
שַׂר, מִינִיסטֶר, כּוֹהֵן, כּוֹהֵן דָת, צִיר, רַב
secretary
מַזכִּיר, שַׂר, מַזכִּירָה, לַבלָר
ruler
שָׁלִיט, סַרְגֵל, מוֹשֵׁל, אָדוֹן, נָגִיד, שַׂר
captain
סֶרֶן, קַפִּיטָן, קַבַּרנִיט, רַב חוֹבֵל, רֹאשׁ, רֹאשׁ קְבוּצָה
commander
מְפַקֵד, אָדוֹן, נָגִיד, שַׂר, טַפסָר
chancellor
נָגִיד, שַׂר, נָשִׂיא אוּנִיבֶרסִיטָה
vizier
וָזִיר, שַׂר
chief
רֹאשׁ, רֹאשׁ, מְפַקֵד, נָשִׂיא, מַנהִיג, אָב
head
רֹאשׁ, קָדקוֹד, מוֹחַ, גוּלגוֹלֶת, מַנהִיג, פִּסגָה
prince
נָסִיך, נָגִיד, נָשִׂיא, שַׂר
God can and does delegate authority in subordinate deities. The Paradise Sons of God go out, create and become the Fathers of their own respective inhabited worlds all while remaining true (one) with the Universal Father.
Under the Paradise creator Sons their are subordinate Sons and various orders of celestial beings. Satan was one such administrator who had been delegated relative powers and authority, else he could never have "fooled the whole world", leading it into sin and rebellion.
You missed the point entirely. "All power and authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me, therefore....."
The consequence of the anti-divinity crowd has a 30+ year old temporary man/God in heaven. You have fallen into the trap of unintentional evil that beset those in Judaism who rejected and still reject Jesus. In your finite mind you are saying that only those things that you can understand are true. That there is no truth beyond that which you can understand. So you are willing to "dumb down" the revelation of the Son to something that can fit your ego's limitations.
Without realizing it you are arguing that, had you been a Jew listening to Jesus in Jerusalem while he was on earth then you would have also found him guilty. You are arguing from the same "reason" of the closed minded Jews. On TOL you are dedicated almost entirely to denying the divinity of Jesus Christ.
But the apostles were often baffled by the miraculous human and divine Son of God on earth.
The consequence of the anti-divinity crowd has a 30+ year old temporary man/God in heaven. You have fallen into the trap of unintentional evil that beset those in Judaism who rejected and still reject Jesus. In your finite mind you are saying that only those things that you can understand are true. That there is no truth beyond that which you can understand. So you are willing to "dumb down" the revelation of the Son to something that can fit your ego's limitations.
Without realizing it you are arguing that, had you been a Jew listening to Jesus in Jerusalem while he was on earth then you would have also found him guilty. You are arguing from the same "reason" of the closed minded Jews. On TOL you are dedicated almost entirely to denying the divinity of Jesus Christ.
But the apostles were often baffled by the miraculous human and divine Son of God on earth.
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You are blessed Meshak! Keep the fiath, don't ever think your way out of believing that which we cant really understand.
John 20;28-29
Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.”
John 20;28-29
Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.”
oatmeal
Well-known member
It is clear that Jesus had a beginning for Matthew 1:18 speaks of it.
the word "birth" in this verse is the Greek word "gennesis" which means beginning.
Before his beginning Jesus Christ did not exist in any form whatsoever.
However, as we see in Romans 4:17, God calls those things which be not as though they were.
What is being said there? In our case, when God spoke in Genesis 3:15 to the serpent, the devil, God's prophecy of the coming seed who would bruise the head of the serpent was a foregone conclusion.
God planned and foreknew of Jesus Christ's victory over Satan and sin and death was as good as done.
Thus in the foreknowledge of God, it could be said that Jesus existed and had already accomplished God's purpose for him. Keeping the phrase in Romans 4:17 in mind, for all practical purposes, since God already knew His future son, Jesus' birth life, ministry were already a reality. After all, who is going to tell God that His foreknowledge is wrong, that He is wrong?
Since Jesus was part of God's plan in the beginning, it could be said that Jesus existed in the foreknowledge of God. God could and did create the heavens and earth with His son in mind, hence the reference God created all things by or for Christ.
lifeisgood
New member
By Luke 2:39-52, He started demonstrating He already knew fully.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Maybe you could explain what Jesus was growing in?
Luke 2:39-52
39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.
40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.
42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
43 And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.
44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.
45 And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.
46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
I too must be about my Father's business.
My Father's business is summed up in I Timothy 2:4
That all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
Well, being about my Father's business does not make me God, it makes me a servant or employee of God.
Looking at
40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
If he was fully God, then how is it that the grace of God was upon him?
If he was God, grace would be emanating from him, for God is the source of grace, it is not something some other God put upon him.
You probably think, what difference does that make? Well, either scripture is accurately telling us what God authored perfectly or it is not.
47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
When children are taught scripture from an early age it astounds people who see the maturity and selflessness that those children live as they believe the truth of scripture.
I have experience a little of that.
Having a desire to please God at an early age, I actually went door to door witnessing by myself at the age of about 7. It was for only about 5 or 6 houses, but I wanted to please God and let others know what God had been teaching me from the scriptures. After all scripture is how God teaches us the truth
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
If Jesus was God, how was it that he would increase in wisdom?
Is God not already all wise?
For that matter, who is the God that Jesus was increasing in favor with?
Obviously not himself.
Why don't you people actually read scripture and use your mind to think?
Why not? Because you have not been taught to think.
You simply accept what you have been taught without question
Acts 17:11
Learn to be noble and ask questions and seek answers
oatmeal
Well-known member
lifeisgood
New member
Praise God Jesus did not grow up becoming like you or I.
He knew He was God at a very tender age. He wouldn't reveal Himself to the religious leaders of Israel as God because HE KNEW they had made up their mind that He was not the kind of Messiah they wanted, however, He dare reveal Himself to a Samaritan woman (imagine that) at a well (John 4:3-42). She and all who believed Him at the well received His blessing and Israel to whom He came rejected Him outright.
He, in the Luke narrative, shows WISDOM BEYOND that of the teachers in the Temple who spent all their lives burning their eyelashes studying the Torah and when THEIR MESSIAH came, and revealed Himself with SIGNS and WONDERS - which was their right to ask for them, Israel rejected Him. Imagine that. No wonder we have the mess we have.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Jesus Christ is a man
He was conceived and born a man, grew up as a man, and now has the glorious human body that all believers will someday have.
Philippians 3:20-21
I Corinthians 15:35-50
Presently we have a natural human body, but eventually we will have the heavenly human body that is ours in the future when Jesus Christ comes to gather us. I Thessalonians 4:13-18
He was conceived and born a man, grew up as a man, and now has the glorious human body that all believers will someday have.
Philippians 3:20-21
I Corinthians 15:35-50
Presently we have a natural human body, but eventually we will have the heavenly human body that is ours in the future when Jesus Christ comes to gather us. I Thessalonians 4:13-18
Well yes, of course.
John 8
58 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!” 59 At that point they picked up stones to throw at him. But Jesus was hidden from them and left the Temple.
This is why Jesus was crucified because he claimed to be God. He would not have claimed it, if He did not know it.
John 8
58 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!” 59 At that point they picked up stones to throw at him. But Jesus was hidden from them and left the Temple.
This is why Jesus was crucified because he claimed to be God. He would not have claimed it, if He did not know it.
Oatmeal.
I believe your explanation against trinity is perfect but I cannot agree with the claim of Jesus is still a Man.
I do so appreciate your trinity explanation.
thank you
oatmeal
Well-known member
So was Jesus as God was growing up to be a mature God?
You might want to reread what you have written
God increased in favor with Himself?
Why? Was God disappointed with himself?
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
Jesus increased in favor with God because Jesus is the son of God who was maturing as he learned and believed scripture
He rose from the dead as His new, glorified, spiritual body, which we will all be at the general resurrection of the dead. A spiritual body is not spirit, but is flesh and bone, just as His body was after He rose from the dead. He ascended as His new body, and sits on His throne now in heaven, at the right hand of the Father.
oatmeal
Well-known member
What a pitiful attempt to justify your error
If Jesus had intended to say that He is the "I am" he would have said so.
He did not say, "I am I am" but "I am"
or more accurately "I am he"
He who?
He that is greater than Abraham, the promised seed of Genesis 3:15
Jesus Christ is the hinge upon whom our redemption and salvation turns