Did Christ know He was fully God?

oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
Ah, so you think Jesus could only think of one thing at a time. I don't know about you, Oats, but, even I can hold many things in my mind at the same time. Jesus, being a human being, was fully functional as a man, while at the same time being fully Divine in His abilities. He continued to accomplish all He had been doing from the beginning while walking this earth among us. Why you insist on trying to limit our Great God is beyond me. :nono:
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Ah, so you think Jesus could only think of one thing at a time.
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I have no idea how you would reach that conclusion.

Probably the same method you used to fall under the false doctrine of the trinity

However, would you want a surgeon who is distracted during your surgery by whether she left the stove on? Maybe she could have thought that one thought about the stove before she left her home instead of during your surgery!

I don't know about you, Oats, but, even I can hold many things in my mind at the same time. Jesus, being a human being, was fully functional as a man, while at the same time being fully Divine in His abilities.
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Divine does not mean "is God" divine means proceeding from God or having godly qualities

Most certainly Jesus Christ was the result of God's doing, after all, God is the Father of the son, and Jesus Christ most certainly had all the godly qualities that a man could have at that time.

He continued to accomplish all He had been doing from the beginning while walking this earth among us. Why you insist on trying to limit our Great God is beyond me.
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You seem to assume that God put on a human costume and that there were actually two beings involved in the one man Jesus Christ. You seem to assume that God was one Jesus and the body was another Jesus, well, who is the soul Jesus? You seem to have two Jesus'. and don't give me that line about me not understanding. Scripture does teach fairy tales of which the trinity takes the cake in the fairy tale department.

Why do you insult and reject God and Jesus Christ by your traditions!
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
If Jesus Christ thought he was fully God, he would have been lying to himself.

John 5:30 clearly shows that. "I can of myself do nothing"

The reason this "mere man" as many like to refer to mankind, could do such mighty works is because he did what God told him to do. If believers would do what is written, like Jesus Christ did, they too could do the works of Jesus Christ and greater works. John 14:12

Which trinitarian who says they believe John 14:12 thinks that they are greater than God? Actually all of them do for to them, doing greater works than Jesus Christ would be doing greater works than God.

People need to read and study and compare scripture with scripture to really learn what God has to say. Anyone can take one verse and ignore the many on the same subject, but that is not a worthwhile approach to learning.

Did Jesus think of himself as fully God?

No, he thought, "I can of myself do nothing"

If you want to contradict scripture, that is your business, but then I feel I must warn people about that.

Jesus depended on God for his power and strength and ability and judgment, well, for everything. He himself as a human needed God as much as any human does if he were to do God's will, not his own.

thus he said, "I can of myself do nothing"
 
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oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
oatmeal said:
If Jesus Christ thought he was fully God, he would have been lying to himself.

John 5:30 clearly shows that. "I can of myself do nothing"

The reason this "mere man" as many like to refer to mankind, could do such mighty works is because he did what God told him to do. If believers would do what is written, like Jesus Christ did, they too could do the works of Jesus Christ and greater works. John 14:12

Which trinitarian who says they believe John 14:12 thinks that they are greater than God? Actually all of them do for to them, doing greater works than Jesus Christ would be doing greater works than God.

People need to read and study and compare scripture with scripture to really learn what God has to say. Anyone can take one verse and ignore the many on the same subject, but that is not a worthwhile approach to learning.

Did Jesus think of himself as fully God?

No, he thought, "I can of myself do nothing"

If you want to contradict scripture, that is your business, but then I feel I must warn people about that.

Jesus depended on God for his power and strength and ability and judgment, well, for everything. He himself as a human needed God as much as any human does if he were to do God's will, not his own.

thus he said, "I can of myself do nothing"
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Since Jesus said "I can of myself do nothing" then it is up to the individual to decide whether Jesus Christ spoke the truth or not. Correspondingly, they must decide if God's written logos is reliable record of truth or not.

The word's own testimony of itself is that it is true and reliable and faithful.

We must decide whether we will believe the testimony of God's written logos or not.

We trust God by trusting His written logos.

Jesus Christ said, "I can of myself do nothing"
 
Ask Mr. Religion

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These are the proper understandings concerning the subordination of God the Son:

(1) the subordination of the Son and the Spirit is temporary and functional, for the period and purpose of their special ministry in the accomplishment and application of salvation to the human race;

(2) the Father's authority cannot be taken in isolation from the authority possessed by the Son and the Holy Spirit;

(3) Scriptures that speak of the Father commanding and the Son obeying are to be understood as referring to the time of the Son's earthly ministry;

(4) the Father's will, which the Son obeys, is actually the will of all three members of the Trinity, administered on their behalf by the Father;

(5) for those claiming eternal functional subordination, the difference of role within the Trinity requires that one person have authority—per an assumed ranking over the other—has yet to be substantiated, rather merely stipulated as a new definition for personhood which requires a ranking, and ignores the possibility of a jointly decided covenant between members of the Trinity before creation;

(6) if the eternally functionally subordinate Son was never equal to the Father, the matter of the humiliation of the Son in the Incarnation as to exactly what He gave up requires a demagnification of Scripture's teachings concerning The Son's present glorification;

(7) if the eternally functionally subordinate Son could not do otherwise, then the Son's coming was not really a free act, nor, with respect to this one action, was God free;

(8) given the assumption by the eternal subordination proponent that the Son's subordination is similar to that of human sons to human fathers, then the Holy Spirit's relationship to the Father—proceeding from both Father and Son—is either something akin to a second son or a grandson;

(9) given that each action of the members of the Trinity is an action by all members of the Trinity, the substitutionary penal view of the atonement is not laid open to charges of injustice for the punishment of an unwilling innocent;

(10) if the Son is eternally subordinate, then prayers directed to Jesus, such as the maranatha prayer asking His return, ought logically to be directed instead to the Father, since the Father sent the Son the first time, and prayers should be for the Father to send the Son the second time;

(11) if the Son is eternally subordinate, praise and worship of the Son is penultimate, not ultimate as that given to the Father; and

(12) if the Father is eternally and necessarily supreme among the persons of the Trinity, if the Son eternally is subordinated to the Father, then the Son is essentially, that is, not accidentally, subordinate to the Father. Therefore if there is a difference of essence between the Father and the Son—that the Father's essence includes supreme authority—while the Son's essence includes submission and subordination everywhere and always, then there is an ontological difference between members of the Trinity which would lead us back to Arianism.

AMR
 
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Ktoyou said:
This really is the truth.

"the subordination of the Son and the Spirit is temporary and functional, for the period and purpose of their special ministry in the accomplishment and application of salvation to the human race;"
AMR
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Yes. All persons of the Trinity are fully God. God the Son is not inferior to God the Father. Jesus’ sonship is not like human sonship. There is something about Jesus' sonship that is absolutely different to creaturely sonship.

Human language used of God is not to be taken literally, “univocally”, but analogically. To argue that human language can univocally define God is possibly the most serious theological error any one can make. It leads to idolatry; making God in our own image. In the New Testament Jesus Christ is called the Son/Son of God to speak of his kingly status, not His subordination.

To argue that Jesus Christ is to be understood like any human son and as such is subordinate and necessarily obedient to his father is to make a terrible error contrary to Scripture. All of us share the same human being but we are not one in being. The Father and the Son uniquely are one in being. They are both God in all might, majesty and glory without any caveats whatsoever.

For example, what Philippians 2:4-11 teaches is the willing and self-chosen subordination and subjection of the Son for our salvation. On this basis, orthodox theologians with one voice insist that the subordination and obedience of the Son seen in the incarnation should not be read back into the eternal life of God. To do so is huge mistake. The Arians of the fourth century read the Son’s incarnational self-subordination, obedience to the Father as the second Adam and His human limitations back into the eternal life of God.

AMR
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

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Evidently, no one, who believes that Jesus is fully God, bothered to consider Jesus Christ's own statement, " I can of myself do nothing"

That omission sums up the "scriptural foundation" of the trinity

Maybe some will take that to mind and heart and reconsider the teachings of scripture and take them more seriously from now on.
 
patrick jane

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oatmeal said:
Evidently, no one, who believes that Jesus is fully God, bothered to consider Jesus Christ's own statement, " I can of myself do nothing"

That omission sums up the "scriptural foundation" of the trinity

Maybe some will take that to mind and heart and reconsider the teachings of scripture and take them more seriously from now on.
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Nope, nobody bothered to consider that scripture or the other scriptures where Jesus says He only does and speaks His Father's will. You are the first.

John 10:30 KJV - I and my Father are one.

What do you think the Bible is telling us?
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
patrick jane said:
Nope, nobody bothered to consider that scripture or the other scriptures where Jesus says He only does and speaks His Father's will. You are the first.

John 10:30 KJV - I and my Father are one.

What do you think the Bible is telling us?
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II Peter 1:20

II Timothy 2:15

I do not afford myself the arrogant luxury of allowing myself to interpret scripture.

It says what it means and it means what is says.

"I can of myself do nothing" That is true of Jesus Christ and it is also true of me.
 
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