I absolutely agree.
I also wonder how they would go about doing that. Terrible. :nono: Although, it should be pretty easy to test that out!
Christian Kids in the Public School
- Thread starter DXPose
- Start date
Layla
New member
I agree. I also think it's a little disingenuous of PastorKevin to act as though he doesn't see why stating that he loves his kids too much to put them in public school implies that those who do put their kids there love them less.
As kmoney said, though, this thread is just getting stupid -- it's barely even about the issues anymore, it's pretty much escalated due to both sides being overly defensive, and therefore acting rashly.
Although he stated it in a rather offensive way, it can be so. Suppose PastorKevin, through no fault of his own, actually believes that foolishness about public schools. Then, loving his children, he keeps them out of public school.
Pretty much the way a person who knows that the same student will usually show higher attainment in a public school than a typical private one, will love his children enough to keep them out of private schools, or at least be very careful about which private school they attend.
Before anyone gets offended, read it carefully; most kids in private schools do better than the average public school student; but any particular student is more likely to do better in public school than the average private one. If you take two kids of same intelligence, with parents of the same intelligence, income, and educational background, the kid in public school will outdo the one in most private schools. The truly good private schools, the ones you have to register your kid prenatally to get in, are not the norm.
I "retired" years ago, to teach 8th grade science. In my part of the country, there are a lot of kids going to home school or various kinds of private schools. Many times, parents realize it's not working, by the time their kid is in early teens, and register them for public school. Most are bright, but with huge gaps in knowledge, especially in math and science. I spend a lot of time doing individual education plans for them. Most eventually catch up, but not all of them.
Granted, I do see the sample that didn't work out. But many came from quite costly private schools. The ones from Rev. Jone's Church Basement Academy are truly in trouble. Homeschoolers seem to be better; they don't know as much, but they usually have more respectable math and language tools. That can cover a lot of content deficiency.
Just my experience.
Pretty much the way a person who knows that the same student will usually show higher attainment in a public school than a typical private one, will love his children enough to keep them out of private schools, or at least be very careful about which private school they attend.
Before anyone gets offended, read it carefully; most kids in private schools do better than the average public school student; but any particular student is more likely to do better in public school than the average private one. If you take two kids of same intelligence, with parents of the same intelligence, income, and educational background, the kid in public school will outdo the one in most private schools. The truly good private schools, the ones you have to register your kid prenatally to get in, are not the norm.
I "retired" years ago, to teach 8th grade science. In my part of the country, there are a lot of kids going to home school or various kinds of private schools. Many times, parents realize it's not working, by the time their kid is in early teens, and register them for public school. Most are bright, but with huge gaps in knowledge, especially in math and science. I spend a lot of time doing individual education plans for them. Most eventually catch up, but not all of them.
Granted, I do see the sample that didn't work out. But many came from quite costly private schools. The ones from Rev. Jone's Church Basement Academy are truly in trouble. Homeschoolers seem to be better; they don't know as much, but they usually have more respectable math and language tools. That can cover a lot of content deficiency.
Just my experience.
I simply find this very hard to believe.
Layla
New member
Unrelated to homeschool, but interesting random bit of info about private schools here; they don't allow students who're predicted to do any less than a C to take their exams, as they don't want their averages dragged down. Public schools don't do this.
Okay, I'll apologize. I'm sorry you were offended by my question.
What's Jesus Camp?
Yep. Comparing private school students to public school students en masse is comparing apples to oranges. And the private schools are very touchy about anyone comparing apples to apples.
As long as they don't tell people the actual data on comparible students, they can continue to point with pride that their students do better (because they don't let mediocre or poor students in)
Some, particularly charter schools, do let such students in. And their record is abominable.
Citing a series of recent charter school failures and reports showing that only 59 percent of charter school students in Texas passed the statewide graduation test -- compared to 78 percent of students in traditional public schools -- lawmakers there are calling for a moratorium on new charters and for additional regulations on existing ones.
"We have everything from well-intentioned people who don't know how to run a school to people who are paying themselves a quarter million dollars a year to run some very small schools," said State Rep. Jim Dunnam, D-Waco, who recently released a report blasting the Texas charter school system for lack of financial oversight and basic taxpayer accountability.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m5072/is_14_23/ai_73091143
It seemed like such a good idea. Pay people to set up schools without any oversight, and pay them about $5000 a pupil to attend.
And now, legislators are "shocked" to learn that people have been treating it like a cash cow, and shortchanging the unfortunate students.
Imagine that.
As long as they don't tell people the actual data on comparible students, they can continue to point with pride that their students do better (because they don't let mediocre or poor students in)
Some, particularly charter schools, do let such students in. And their record is abominable.
Citing a series of recent charter school failures and reports showing that only 59 percent of charter school students in Texas passed the statewide graduation test -- compared to 78 percent of students in traditional public schools -- lawmakers there are calling for a moratorium on new charters and for additional regulations on existing ones.
"We have everything from well-intentioned people who don't know how to run a school to people who are paying themselves a quarter million dollars a year to run some very small schools," said State Rep. Jim Dunnam, D-Waco, who recently released a report blasting the Texas charter school system for lack of financial oversight and basic taxpayer accountability.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m5072/is_14_23/ai_73091143
It seemed like such a good idea. Pay people to set up schools without any oversight, and pay them about $5000 a pupil to attend.
And now, legislators are "shocked" to learn that people have been treating it like a cash cow, and shortchanging the unfortunate students.
Imagine that.
Barbarian observes:
...most kids in private schools do better than the average public school student; but any particular student is more likely to do better in public school than the average private one...
Would you believe that American 8th grade public school students do better than the 8th grade students of most other nations in science and math?
That's not a rhetorical question. Would you believe that?
...most kids in private schools do better than the average public school student; but any particular student is more likely to do better in public school than the average private one...
Would you believe that American 8th grade public school students do better than the 8th grade students of most other nations in science and math?
That's not a rhetorical question. Would you believe that?
I stated this directly before, but no one should even care much about the academic achievements of schools compared to character. If the children learn only 1/2 what they learn now, but have good character when they are done with school, then we've done a fantastic job.
You have to be kidding. A person who is being a fool throughout the beginning of the thread says his kids didn't learn to roll joints and put on condoms in public school, and you think only a miscreant would answer "so if it wasn't in public school, where did they learn it"? In a debate forum? Your bias is showing.
You sound like one of the people that agreed with the Ramsey's that they were shocked, shocked to find that people would hint that a parent would harm their child!
Just about anyone handling it differently wouldn't have considered me a miscreant in that particular situation. But the difference between you and PJ is that you barrow enough from the Christian worldview to display a whitewash of your black heart while PJ displays his black heart directly.
Layla
New member
Come on, are you saying that you honestly didn't know that when he said his kids didn't learn it in public school, he meant that they didn't learn it, period? You honestly thought he was suggesting his kids learnt it some place else?
Of course. As a forum veterans, which both you and PJ are, it was obvious when I said it. But such a hypocrite needs mocking. It would have been better for him to recognize his hypocrisy, but raving like a madman like he did was the next best response.
Layla
New member
So, what you did, was pick up on a random statement and completely twist it in order to mock him, simply because you disagreed. Insane concept, I know, but why didn't you just point out where he was hypocritical, and make your arguments without insulting him and his children? Like PJ, your manner buries the validity of your point.
PKevman
New member
I concur. I said earlier in regards to Parson's "trump" question of what about trigonometry, etc.... that I would not elevate trig over my child's heart. And the thing is that there are many options for these types of subjects anyway.
Layla
New member
PKevman
New member
Actually IA I tried to point out where he was hypocrital, and in my rebuke of him, I also told him that I have previously agreed with a lot of what he had to say in other threads. I rebuked him and he didn't like being rebuked, so he blew it all up and got nasty. Not much I can do. If you go back reread all of my posts to PJ, I would really like to see where I was being unreasonable? I even posted his own comments for crying out loud, to show that he was being hypocritical. His responses grew more and more volatile.
The truth is that I have wanted to discuss this issue from the beginning, and Parson's attitude has derailed the discussion completely.
PKevman
New member
Kids can be happy, well-adjusted, wonderful people, and know their trig, y'know.
Absolutely. You missed the point I think. To me my kids hearts and lives are more important to me than if they learn trig or not. And they can also learn trig! They don't need a public school to teach them that.
I am far more concerned with what types of people they become as Yorzhik so aptly pointed out.
Layla
New member
The post you're replying to wasn't to or about you, so I am confused..
Layla
New member
I was kidding.. Thought the tongue-out smiley might have got that accross..
PKevman
New member
I know. My point was I tried to do what you said Yorzhik should have done and it didnt' go over too well. I apologize if I didn't communicate well enough what I was trying to say.
God bless.