Christian Kids in the Public School

[kmoney]

Here's the problem with "the average". How do you determine what it is?

It's like the FACT that homeschooled kids average 1.8 points higher than public school kids on their ACT tests. The problem with taking that average at face value is that you're comparing 4600 homeschooled kids to almost 1.1 million public schooled kids nationwide.

And that is one reason why I think it's unfair to compare homeschool education to public school education. The populations are vastly different. They are vastly different in number and they are vastly different in the type of people in each. Homeschool families are generally going to care more about education and thus will put more time an effort into it, thus having better scores on tests.

In addition, you have to consider other variables. For instance, in Minnesota where I used to live, it is state law that ALL kids - regardless of handicap - be mainstreamed in the public school. That means that even the mentally retarded kids (and I don't say that as an insult, because I don't know what might be the politically correct term) were required, by law, to take ALL the state-level tests. What do you suppose that did to the average scores of public schools - like the one my kids were part of - where all the handicapped kids from the entire county were sent? What would the test scores of mentally retarded homeschooled kids be? What would that do to the average?

I want to consider the variables after you answer the question of who gets the better education. You just refuse to answer though and go straight to this step. :IA: :chuckle:

So, going by test scores (which is the main way to gauge the level of education students are receiving) are going to be higher for homeschoolers, but it doesn't really mean much at all. :nono: And also, I think too little responsibility is put on the children and too much on the schools. If a kid in public school wants to get a good education, they can! It just takes effort, just like it takes effort in homeschool.

Having said that, it is terrible the sort of children that are being allowed to graduate. The public school system needs to get tougher on holding kids back that shouldn't graduate. It shouldn't be that hard to know if a kid graduating is literate. :doh:

 

[kmoney]

Huhhh?

Why would any IDIOT just assume, or make the STUPID ACCUSATION, that my kids roll joints and put on condoms? Where does that kind of garbage come from?

Just move on. It's not worth it. Trust me. Let's stick to good, calm discussion.

 

[kmoney]

Not really. I agree with both Memento Mori and ParsonJefferson on their answers to the question. It is both the parents and the students who hold the responsibility to whether the kids work or not. If the kid decides not to do the work, in most cases, a good swift smack on the butt will motivate the kids to do the work.

I fully agree! But that doesn't deny us the ability to get a general idea about the level of education that kids are graduating with. Like I said in another post, I think homeschoolers are better educated but it has very little to do with the public schools.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Having said that, it is terrible the sort of children that are being allowed to graduate. The public school system needs to get tougher on holding kids back that shouldn't graduate. It shouldn't be that hard to know if a kid graduating is literate. :doh:

Ironically, at Northwest High School, here in Omaha, only 165 of the 500 seniors are graduating this year (this is coming from the parent of one of those seniors, who works with my wife)! I'm not sure what to make of this, and I'm quite sure there's more to the story. But if the kids did not pass their tests, do their work and/or meet graduation standards, I say, "Way to go Northwest High administration! Hold your ground, despite the fact that the parents will put you through hell and back!"

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Just move on. It's not worth it. Trust me. Let's stick to good, calm discussion.

Yes, let's.
But why do you keep bringing it up?

 

[ParsonJefferson]

I fully agree! But that doesn't deny us the ability to get a general idea about the level of education that kids are graduating with. Like I said in another post, I think homeschoolers are better educated but it has very little to do with the public schools.

I agree.

 

[Layla]

I fully agree! But that doesn't deny us the ability to get a general idea about the level of education that kids are graduating with. Like I said in another post, I think homeschoolers are better educated but it has very little to do with the public schools.

I agree. I tried to make a similar point earlier in the thread, but it got buried with all the fighting. The kids who did badly in school, when I was there, who skived, swore, smoked, drank, used drugs, etc, etc, were usually kids from unhappy family backgrounds, and I think homeschool would have done these kids more hurt than good.. their parents did nothing to discipline them, so they behaved badly at school.. this makes it the fault of the parents, not the public school.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

I agree. I tried to make a similar point earlier in the thread, but it got buried with all the fighting. The kids who did badly in school, when I was there, who skived, swore, smoked, drank, used drugs, etc, etc, were usually kids from unhappy family backgrounds, and I think homeschool would have done these kids more hurt than good.. their parents did nothing to discipline them, so they behaved badly at school.. this makes it the fault of the parents, not the public school.

Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

 

[Layla]

Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

Not true in every case, of course, just a point about other factors coming into play, therefore national averages Vs. homeschool averages not really being a direct comparison of level of education.

 

[kmoney]

Yes, let's.
But why do you keep bringing it up?

I didn't think I was bringing it up. It was already "up" and I was trying to get it "down". But sorry, I won't say anything more about it. :shut:

 

[kmoney]

Ironically, at Northwest High School, here in Omaha, only 165 of the 500 seniors are graduating this year (this is coming from the parent of one of those seniors, who works with my wife)! I'm not sure what to make of this, and I'm quite sure there's more to the story. But if the kids did not pass their tests, do their work and/or meet graduation standards, I say, "Way to go Northwest High administration! Hold your ground, despite the fact that the parents will put you through hell and back!"

:thumb:

 

[kmoney]

I agree. I tried to make a similar point earlier in the thread, but it got buried with all the fighting. The kids who did badly in school, when I was there, who skived, swore, smoked, drank, used drugs, etc, etc, were usually kids from unhappy family backgrounds, and I think homeschool would have done these kids more hurt than good.. their parents did nothing to discipline them, so they behaved badly at school.. this makes it the fault of the parents, not the public school.

:thumb:

 

[zoo22]

Questions to all since so far no one I've asked specifically has answered these questions....

1) Do you believe that homeschooled children are, on average, better educated than public schoolers?

If yes, why?
If no,:squint:

Personally I think the answer to #1 is yes, but I don't think the primary reason is the public school cirriculum. I'm curious to see how people will answer.

Yes, they are better educated on average, at least book-wise. Average test scores fall at least in the 60-70 percentile compared to other schools. Homeschooled kids generally get good educations.

I think there are a number of reasons, but the primary being:

1) Because so many of the public schools are piss-poor, 2) because many of the parents who homeschool their children are more concerned about their child's education than many people who have their children in public schools.

I'm not saying that public school can't be great; it can be. And I'm not saying that parents who have their kids in public school care less about their kids than homeschoolers do, but I do think that on average, homeschooling parents care more about their kids education.

I'm an advocate of supporting public school, but I think homeschooling can be great, as can private school.

For what it's worth, I've attended a vast amount of different schools and different types of schools (K-12). Both public and private, inner city and rural, impoverished and very wealthy, extremely progressive and staunchly conservative. One-room schoolhouses, and huge, overpopulated schools. I've also attended schools outside of the US (both private and public) and I have also had homeschooling through the course of all of that. I had a very untraditional upbringing.

I think it's great when parents want their kids to have a great education, and I don't care what method they choose to do that, but ideally I think it would be in public school. I understand why that's not always the right choice. I am a big supporter of pubic schools and I believe we should support them in every way we can because the vast majority of our nation's youth attends them. The reason they are in such a poor state is because of us. I think it's a travesty that anyone would question supporting them. We should have the greatest public school system in the world.

I do strongly believe in the community aspect of schools, and that it is a very positive thing for children. I think that the diversity in many schools is something that is important. Again, that's not to say that I think homeschooling can't produce well-adjusted children without those things, because it can and does. I think that homeschooling can often be oversheltered, but that it doesn't need to be.

I don't have children, but if I did (or ever do), I would want them to experience a few different types of schools and styles of education, but not as many as I did. I missed out on a lot of things because of it, but I also learned and experienced some things that I think very few have. I don't know whether I would change it if I could, but I can't so I look on the bright side

It seems like everyone in this thread that has kids cares a lot about them and their education, and that will resound. I will always thank my parents for caring about my education...

Also, I have plenty more to say about schools.

 

[kmoney]

Yes, they are better educated on average, at least book-wise. Average test scores fall at least in the 60-70 percentile compared to other schools. Homeschooled kids generally get good educations.

I agree. Thanks!

1) Because so many of the public schools are piss-poor, [/quote]
Can you expand on "piss-poor"?

2) because many of the parents who homeschool their children are more concerned about their child's education than many people who have their children in public schools.

I fully agree, as I have stated previously.

For what it's worth, I've attended a vast amount of different schools and different types of schools (K-12). Both public and private, inner city and rural, impoverished and very wealthy, extremely progressive and staunchly conservative. One-room schoolhouses, and huge, overpopulated schools. I've also attended schools outside of the US (both private and public) and I have also had homeschooling through the course of all of that. I had a very untraditional upbringing.

I'd say. :noway:

I think it's great when parents want their kids to have a great education, and I don't care what method they choose to do that, but ideally I think it would be in public school. I understand why that's not always the right choice. I am a big supporter of pubic schools and I believe people should support them in every way they can because the vast majority of our nation's youth attends them. The reason they are in such a poor state is because of us. I think it's a travesty that anyone would question supporting them. We should have the greatest public school system in the world.

:up:

I do strongly believe in the community aspect of schools, and that it is a very positive thing for children. I think that the diversity in many schools is something that is important. Again, that's not to say that I think homeschooling can't produce well-adjusted children without those things, because it can and does. I think that homeschooling can often be oversheltered, but that it doesn't need to be.

I don't have children, but if I did (or ever do), I would want them to experience a few different types of schools and styles of education, but not as many as I did. I missed out on a lot of things because of it, but I also learned and experienced some things that I think very few have. I don't know whether I would change it if I could, but I can't so I look on the bright side I will always thank my parents for caring about my education...

It seems like everyone in this thread that has kids cares a lot about them and their education.

Also, I have plenty more to say about schools.

Good post. Thanks!

 

[ebenz47037]

Hold it!
Wait, wait, wait!
Stop the presses!

YOU actually agreed with ME about something ON THIS THREAD? I think I need to go check my heart!!!

I never said that I don't agree with you on anything. In fact, you asked me a while back if I would admit that some public schools might be good. My answer was, basically, I haven't seen one but I have no doubt that there are some good public schools.

In fact, I think that the only thing I've disagreed with you on (in this thread) was that schools' academic performance is solely reliant on the parents and with the way I've seen you talking to others on this thread.

 

[ebenz47037]

I fully agree! But that doesn't deny us the ability to get a general idea about the level of education that kids are graduating with. Like I said in another post, I think homeschoolers are better educated but it has very little to do with the public schools.

I think it has nothing to do with the public schools.

 

[kmoney]

I think it has nothing to do with the public schools.

:thumb: I'm glad you agree. Unfortunately, it seems like (and maybe that's a false impression) that most of the hardcore homeschool advocates disagree. If people want to homeschool their kids because of moral reasons, go for it, but I think it's silly to homeschool your children because you think they'll get a bad education at public school.

 

[ebenz47037]

:thumb: I'm glad you agree. Unfortunately, it seems like (and maybe that's a false impression) that most of the hardcore homeschool advocates disagree. If people want to homeschool their kids because of moral reasons, go for it, but I think it's silly to homeschool your children because you think they'll get a bad education at public school.

Actually, that's why we started homeschooling. :chuckle: My daughter's second grade teacher told me straight out that public schools in California were no longer equipped to handle intelligent children.

 

[Nomad]

Questions to all since so far no one I've asked specifically has answered these questions....

1) Do you believe that homeschooled children are, on average, better educated than public schoolers?

If yes, why?
If no,:squint:

Personally I think the answer to #1 is yes, but I don't think the primary reason is the public school cirriculum. I'm curious to see how people will answer.

I concur with you, with the following reasons

Home Schooling Demographics

Home school parents in the study had more formal education than parents in the general population; 88% continued their education beyond high school compared to 50% for the nation as a whole.

Many home school parents were formally trained as teachers. Almost one-fourth of home school students (24%) have at least one parent who is a certified teacher.

The median income for home school families ($52,000) was significantly higher than that of all families with children ($36,000) in the United States.

Almost all home school students (98%) were in married couple families. Most home school mothers (77%)did not participate in the labor force; almost all home school fathers (98%) did work.

Home school students watched much less television than students nationwide; 65% of home school students watch one hour or less per day compared to 25% nationally.

The distribution of home school students by grade in grades 1-6 was consistent with that of all school children. Proportionally fewer home school students were enrolled at the high school level.

source

There is much more going on than where the kids get educated

 

[kmoney]

Actually, that's why we started homeschooling. :chuckle: My daughter's second grade teacher told me straight out that public schools in California were no longer equipped to handle intelligent children.

Well then you are silly!!

But really, :jessilu: is an exceptional example. Should schools be willing and able to accomodate gifted children? Absolutely! So I think the rule is that it's silly to homeschool children because you think they'll get a bad education, but there are exceptions to the rule, your daughter being one of them. Although, I don't think she would have received a bad education had you left her in public school, but I think she received a better one homeschooling.