The final refuge of the fanatic; "they are lying, all of them!"
Child Prostitution 3rd Largest Organized Crime
- Thread starter Nazaroo
- Start date
It does my heart good to finally find the one person in the United States who believes what politicans tell us is the truth.
Now some information on unreported crimes:
August 2011
"St. Paul, Minn. — A new survey reveals that a significant proportion of crime in Minnesota goes unreported. Crime is reportedly down, but the results make it clear that the police record is incomplete.
In a survey of 6,000 Minnesotans, respondents listed numerous crimes that they didn't report to police, including sexual assaults, domestic violence and burglaries. Women had the highest rates of unreported crimes in the survey..."
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/di...-crime-presents-incomplete-picture-for-police
And from this website:
"1.Some crimes are not reported to the police because
◦The general public regards them as too trivial
◦The victim finds the matter embarrassing
◦Individuals are unaware they are victims (e.g. fraud or confidence tricks)
◦Lack of confidence or trust in the police [many of these child prostitutes are from 3rd world countries where the police aren't trusted]
◦A fear of reprisals or victimization
◦The victim may take law into own hands - a form of rough justice
◦Children who may not understand issues
◦Victim may not want to harm the offender (e.g. domestic violence and abuse)..."
http://crimestoday.blogspot.com/
If we want to stop child prostitution then we need to go after the customers not the "product'. We need to punish those who purchase the services of the child prostitutes. Since using a child prostitute is generally considered shameful publication is an effective punishment. As with any other crime, certainty of punishment is a more effective deterent than severity of punishment.
Memento Mori
New member
I agree. Demand side reduction most definitely does work.
Barbarian observes:
The final refuge of the fanatic; "they are lying, all of them!"
Politicians didn't do those studies. But you already knew that, didn't you?
So if even half of all crimes are unreported, but the number of reports fall, that means that the total crime rate went down. Which is what is happening.
That shouldn't be hard to figure out. But I noted the data showing kids are more willing to report abuse today. That's also a result of more emphasis on the problem. How is that a bad thing?
The final refuge of the fanatic; "they are lying, all of them!"
Politicians didn't do those studies. But you already knew that, didn't you?
So if even half of all crimes are unreported, but the number of reports fall, that means that the total crime rate went down. Which is what is happening.
That shouldn't be hard to figure out. But I noted the data showing kids are more willing to report abuse today. That's also a result of more emphasis on the problem. How is that a bad thing?
LKmommy
New member
Who said that? You are off on a witch hunt in attempt to twist what I said.
Barbarian, observe the last line up above please. Now read slowly please, I am not intimidated by you or your way of thinking or posting. I just do not agree with you on whatever point you think you are making.
ACW is fine and capable of arguing his point and tolerating the likes of you Barbie :carryon: ACW!
Barbarian on Connie's refusal to accept the evidence:
The final refuge of the fanatic; "they are lying, all of them!"
Connie.
I was talking about Connie. Don't be so paranoid. Of course there's a problem. As you see, directing the laws and enforcement are effective ways of reducing it.
Truth may be unpleasant to you, but it has the virtue of being true. Let's see what you cherry picked out of it:
If we don't know why abuse is declining, that doesn't mean it isn't declining. It just means we don't know for sure why. However, that study by the Gates foundation in the Phillipines strongly indicates that good laws, vigorously enforced, work very well to that end. So stronger laws and more vigorous enforcement probably are the reason here, as well.
There are still a few people who are skeptical of a spherical Earth.
Couldn't be that kids are more willing to tell, or that law enforcement is hunting and jailing abusers. Or that state laws require people who care for kids to report abuse. Nope. Couldn't be that. I discussed this with an FBI agent who actually hunted them, about 15 ago, and he said that the bad guys on the net were worried and paranoid about the police after laws and enforcement changed. And they should have been. He was tracking them and listening.
Given the facts, that's just unrealistic.
It's impossible to intimidate someone on the net. Sometimes opinion shift can feel that way.
Facts are hard things, but they are real. Which is a point in their favor.
So you don't know, but you're sure it's wrong?
Now that's a phrase I never expected to see here.
Never expected "tolerance" to be associated with Connie, either. You might be quite earnest in what you want to believe. But facts matter. Think about it.
The final refuge of the fanatic; "they are lying, all of them!"
Connie.
I was talking about Connie. Don't be so paranoid. Of course there's a problem. As you see, directing the laws and enforcement are effective ways of reducing it.
Truth may be unpleasant to you, but it has the virtue of being true. Let's see what you cherry picked out of it:
If we don't know why abuse is declining, that doesn't mean it isn't declining. It just means we don't know for sure why. However, that study by the Gates foundation in the Phillipines strongly indicates that good laws, vigorously enforced, work very well to that end. So stronger laws and more vigorous enforcement probably are the reason here, as well.
There are still a few people who are skeptical of a spherical Earth.
Couldn't be that kids are more willing to tell, or that law enforcement is hunting and jailing abusers. Or that state laws require people who care for kids to report abuse. Nope. Couldn't be that. I discussed this with an FBI agent who actually hunted them, about 15 ago, and he said that the bad guys on the net were worried and paranoid about the police after laws and enforcement changed. And they should have been. He was tracking them and listening.
Given the facts, that's just unrealistic.
It's impossible to intimidate someone on the net. Sometimes opinion shift can feel that way.
Facts are hard things, but they are real. Which is a point in their favor.
So you don't know, but you're sure it's wrong?
Now that's a phrase I never expected to see here.
Never expected "tolerance" to be associated with Connie, either. You might be quite earnest in what you want to believe. But facts matter. Think about it.
Quote:
It does my heart good to finally find the one person in the United States who believes what politicans tell us is the truth.
Poor Barbarella, he's so confused. Politicians supplied the FBI with incorrect crime information, thus the FBI reporting that crime has gone done.
Common sense never has been your strong point.
Under reported crime, unreported crime=lower crime statistics.
Have a first grader explain it to you Barbie.
What planet are you from?
Of course you punish the johns, i.e. the "customers" who are purchasing the "services" of innocent little boys and girls.
These kids have pimps, are you saying that these low lifes should not be prosecuted for pandering children?
since 1960 until now:
Violent crime in America has increased by nearly 600%.
The current divorce rate is near 50%.
Illegitimate births increased by 400%.
Teenage suicide increased over 200%.
The national average score on the SAT has dropped by 80 points.
And last year, across America, over 25% of the graduating seniors could not even read the diplomas they received.
One of the most tragic and sinful statistics of all is that since Rowe vs. Wade in the 1970's, over 50 million unborn babies have been murdered in their mother's womb. Today over 1/3 of all pregnancies in America end in abortion. There is an abortion taking place every 20 seconds.
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/poli...rogressive-values-american.html#ixzz2Ljv3bMHT
In Barbies world, life is good!
Violent crime in America has increased by nearly 600%.
The current divorce rate is near 50%.
Illegitimate births increased by 400%.
Teenage suicide increased over 200%.
The national average score on the SAT has dropped by 80 points.
And last year, across America, over 25% of the graduating seniors could not even read the diplomas they received.
One of the most tragic and sinful statistics of all is that since Rowe vs. Wade in the 1970's, over 50 million unborn babies have been murdered in their mother's womb. Today over 1/3 of all pregnancies in America end in abortion. There is an abortion taking place every 20 seconds.
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/poli...rogressive-values-american.html#ixzz2Ljv3bMHT
In Barbies world, life is good!
While Barbie works on yet another lame response, here's a link to what he and I had discussed in another thread not too long ago.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
Note how crime skyrocketed since 1960, around the time atheist Madylyn Murray O'Hare sued to have God removed from our public school system and society in general.
Also note how around 1990, those numbers started to go down.
No reason for the decline, things just "happen", right Barbie?
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
Note how crime skyrocketed since 1960, around the time atheist Madylyn Murray O'Hare sued to have God removed from our public school system and society in general.
Also note how around 1990, those numbers started to go down.
No reason for the decline, things just "happen", right Barbie?
Well, let's take a look...
Oh. Declining. (Connie thinks this is a bad thing)
Yep. But...
The highest divorce rates are in the Bible Belt: "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people. Nine states in the Northeast (Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, New York, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Maryland) have the lowest divorce rates, averaging just 3.5/1000 people.
Barna Research Group (an evangelical association)
Your solution would make things worse.
Nov. 29, 2011 — States that prescribe abstinence-only sex education programs in public schools have significantly higher teenage pregnancy and birth rates than states with more comprehensive sex education programs, researchers from the University of Georgia have determined...The study is the first large-scale evidence that the type of sex education provided in public schools has a significant effect on teen pregnancy rates, Hall said.
"This clearly shows that prescribed abstinence-only education in public schools does not lead to abstinent behavior," said David Hall, second author and assistant professor of genetics in the Franklin College. "It may even contribute to the high teen pregnancy rates in the U.S. compared to other industrialized countries."
Along with teen pregnancy rates and sex education methods, Hall and Stanger-Hall looked at the influence of socioeconomic status, education level, access to Medicaid waivers and ethnicity of each state's teen population.
Even when accounting for these factors, which could potentially impact teen pregnancy rates, the significant relationship between sex education methods and teen pregnancy remained: the more strongly abstinence education is emphasized in state laws and policies, the higher the average teenage pregnancy and birth rates.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111129185925.htm
The national push for abstinence-only backfired. We're still cleaning up that mess. States finally started opting out of the federal program as the results became apparent.
Between the mid-1950s and the late 1970s, the suicide rate among U.S. males aged 15-24 more than tripled (from 6.3 per 100,000 in 1955 to 21.3 in 1977). Among females aged 15-24, the rate more than doubled during this period (from 2.0 to 5.2). The youth suicide rate generally leveled off during the 1980s and early 1990s, and since the mid-1990s has been steadily decreasing.
http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=050fea9f-b064-4092-b1135c3a70de1fda
So, decreasing... Still a huge problem, but moving the right way.
You've been suckered on that one. More kids are taking the tests, not just the top 10% or so. If you plot for each state, the average SAT score with the percentage of seniors taking them, you'll find a very nice negative correlation. That's why the College Board people warn against using SAT data for assessing overall student achievement.
Again, last year, the Nation's Report Card (the reporting part of "No Child Left Behind) shows increases in reading achievement:
http://nationsreportcard.gov/reading_2011/
And abortions continue to decline. What terrifies you, I think, is that they are declining as a result of changing people's thinking. In the last few years, a majority of people are polling for pro-life. We're winning. And government has been irrelevant in that struggle.
Not for everyone. But as you learned, in most ways, it's getting better. Which seems to upset you, for reasons that we can only guess at.
Tinark
Active member
:first:
That trophy is for you ACW, you are #1 at scouring the net for lies to support your viewpoint.
No sources, no links to multiple studies that converge on the same conclusion. Just a bunch of made up nonsense by some random person on the internet, and you fell for it
:rotfl:
Tinark
Active member
Yep. One of the biggest predictors of a divorce is an early marriage. Who tends to marry earliest? Religious conservatives. Why do they tend to marry so early? Because they are taught that all sex outside of marriage is evil and sinful. Therefore, it is partly driven by their desire to have sex, so they are more inclined to make a decision to marry someone when they have less maturity and life experience, are more likely to marry someone less compatible with them, and also marry before either have developed a stable career to provide sufficient economic resources for a family.
Exactly. The problem is the only part. Religious conservatives favor withholding facts from children and keeping them ignorant. I'm fine with teaching children the factual benefits of abstinence until marriage on risk of STDs and chances of unwanted pregnancy, but this should only be one piece of comprehensive education.
The national push for abstinence-only backfired. We're still cleaning up that mess. States finally started opting out of the federal program as the results became apparent.
Yep. The suicide rate in the U.S. is about average for the world as a whole.
Yep. College enrollment rates have almost doubled since the 60's.
This is why the pro-life movement isn't taken seriously by most people. If they were truely pro-life, they would attack the problem from all angles. First and foremost by supporting solutions that reduce someones desire to get an abortion in the first place: unwanted pregnancies and economic hardship to raise a child. The narrow focus on making it illegal and overturning Roe v Wade, plus the hardline dogmatic stance that a fertilized zygote is a person, will mean that a majority of Americans will not give them their support.
It was quote by a blogger pointing out what this nation has come to.
If you'd like to address what he said point by point, I'd be more than happy to.
Let's start with this one:
"Violent crime in America has increased by nearly 600%."
I'd read where it was around 400%; grab your calculator and do the math from 1960 to the early 1990's, the point at which politicians starting padding the stats.
Year Population Violent
1960- 179,323,175- 288,460
1993- 257,908,000- 1,926,020
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
He continues with:
"The current divorce rate is near 50%.
"Illegitimate births increased by 400%.
Teenage suicide increased over 200%.
The national average score on the SAT has dropped by 80 points.
And last year, across America, over 25% of the graduating seniors could not even read the diplomas they received.
One of the most tragic and sinful statistics of all is that since Rowe vs. Wade in the 1970's, over 50 million unborn babies have been murdered in their mother's womb. Today over 1/3 of all pregnancies in America end in abortion. There is an abortion taking place every 20 seconds."
Do you disagree with the above statistics, and if so, which ones if not all of them?
Quote:
Violent crime in America has increased by nearly 600%.
Refer to my posts about how politicians are padding the crime stats since circa 1990.
Quote:
The current divorce rate is near 50%.
Thank you Ronald Reagan for pushing no-fault divorce on America. Yes, the one's that are still marrying (liberals aren't, they just shack up and hit the road when the going get's tough, less paperwork ya know) are getting divorced.
So you admit that out of wedlock births are up 400%.
Yes, still a huge problem. Moving the right way? Hardly.
"The CDC (Centers for Disease Control) reports that 60 percent of high school students claim that they have thought about committing suicide, and around nine percent of them say that they have tried killing themselves at least once. Indeed, the CDC reports that suicide is the third leading cause of death for Americans aged 15 to 24. The only two phenomena that cause more death among teenagers are car accidents and homicide.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/component/k2/item/11596-teen-suicide-is-death-ed-a-cause??Itemid=660
3 part article on death education, well worth the read.
It appears you agree that SAT scores have dropped 80 points.
You need to get out more Barbie, these kids have been dumb-downed in our school system. Why do you think so many parents are homeschooling or sending their kids off to private schools (liberals included)?
We've been over this numerous times, surgical abortions are still holding study at 1.2 million a year.
http://www.christianliferesources.com/article/u-s-abortion-statistics-by-year-1973-current-1042
It's great that surgical abortions have dropped from a high of 1.6 million since 1990, but not so great for the other 1.2 million unborn babies who are still affected by it.
As I'd shown in an earlier post, the morning after pill and the abortion pill RU-486 are in big demand.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3363946&postcount=55
Keep imagining that the sewer has a sweet smell to it Barbie, believe me, it doesn't.
Violent crime in America has increased by nearly 600%.
Refer to my posts about how politicians are padding the crime stats since circa 1990.
Quote:
The current divorce rate is near 50%.
Thank you Ronald Reagan for pushing no-fault divorce on America. Yes, the one's that are still marrying (liberals aren't, they just shack up and hit the road when the going get's tough, less paperwork ya know) are getting divorced.
So you admit that out of wedlock births are up 400%.
Yes, still a huge problem. Moving the right way? Hardly.
"The CDC (Centers for Disease Control) reports that 60 percent of high school students claim that they have thought about committing suicide, and around nine percent of them say that they have tried killing themselves at least once. Indeed, the CDC reports that suicide is the third leading cause of death for Americans aged 15 to 24. The only two phenomena that cause more death among teenagers are car accidents and homicide.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/component/k2/item/11596-teen-suicide-is-death-ed-a-cause??Itemid=660
3 part article on death education, well worth the read.
It appears you agree that SAT scores have dropped 80 points.
You need to get out more Barbie, these kids have been dumb-downed in our school system. Why do you think so many parents are homeschooling or sending their kids off to private schools (liberals included)?
We've been over this numerous times, surgical abortions are still holding study at 1.2 million a year.
http://www.christianliferesources.com/article/u-s-abortion-statistics-by-year-1973-current-1042
It's great that surgical abortions have dropped from a high of 1.6 million since 1990, but not so great for the other 1.2 million unborn babies who are still affected by it.
As I'd shown in an earlier post, the morning after pill and the abortion pill RU-486 are in big demand.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3363946&postcount=55
Keep imagining that the sewer has a sweet smell to it Barbie, believe me, it doesn't.
Tinark
Active member
Why the cherry picked years? Why no use of the rate, which is what is important. You must adjust for the number of people.
Per http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm
1960: 161 per 100,000
2010: 404 per 100,000
250% increase
However, there has been a near continuous drop since 1991.
Fifty Percent of American Marriages Are Ending in Divorce-Fiction!
Let me say it straightforwardly: Fi...//www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/divorce.htm
I had trouble finding good data on this. However, it looks about right. The pro-life's opposition to comprehensive sex education and easily accessible birth control for all women is certainly a contributing factor to this. It is mainly a result of women marrying less frequently and at a later age.
I'm having trouble finding a source for this.
1967: average 1059
2012: average 1010
Drop = 49 points
http://www.erikthered.com/tutor/historical-average-SAT-scores.pdf
Explainations: far greater proportions of students enrolling in college.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/college-enrollment-rate-at-record-high/
Not only that, but the test itself is designed for 500 points on each section to be roughly the average. Thus, you fail to take into account changes made to the questions on the test itself.
I don't see any study done on this, so no clue where this is coming from. I did find that 26% of graduating seniors are below basic reading level, but this doesn't necessarily mean they can't read their diplomas. Furthermore, we were discussing changes. Has this statistic gotten worse? It doesn't appear so. It has been stuck here for quite some time.
It is 22% of prenangices that end in abortion. Largely due to appallingly high unintended pregnancy rate of 50%. The unintended pregnancy rate is highest in areas that teach absistence only sex education and lowest in areas that teach comprehensive sex education.
However, as mentioned previously, the rate is dropping since the mid 70's:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
Pay attention in class Tinark, if you refuse to do so, I'll make you sit facing the chalk board writing "I am an atheist dunce" numerous times.
Again, since the crimes behind illegal immigration started adding up, various city officials began under reporting crimes to the FBI. All of that started in the early 1990's.
Regarding the alleged 250% increase (from my link)
Year-Population- Violent
1960- 179,323,175- 288,460
1993- 257,908,000- 1,926,020
I aint too good at math, but from 288,460 to 1,926,020 (i.e. violent crimes, which sex trafficking of children falls under) seems to be a bit more than 250%.
Regarding the rest of those issues: they've been addressed in my response to your buddy Barbarella.
Tinark
Active member
You are pulling this directly out of your arse as far as I can tell. Provide references to your assertions to studies and data that back-up your assertion if you want to be taken seriously. Just saying it could have an effect is a hypothesis, not evidence.
As Barbarian already pointed out, which you have not refuted, is that underreporting of crimes took place in the 1960's as well. Not only that, but he supplied evidence to indicate that the problem of underreporting is _less_ of an issue today than it used to be back in the 60's.
Pay attention! The raw numbers are not relevant when comparing one time period to another, because the numbers are changing in part due to the change in numbers of people who live here. We have to eliminate that effect to have an apples to apples comparison. Not only that, but you didn't address the fact that the years are cherry picked. Why are you focusing on 1993, when 20 years have passed since then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Again, since the crimes behind illegal immigration started adding up, various city officials began underreporting crimes to the FBI. All of that started in the early 1990's.
See below (you acknowledge what I've just stated regarding underreporting).
I didn't refute it because the link I supplied showed that underreporting isn't anything new.
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc_21_4/tsc_21_4_oltman.shtml
That being said, note that crimes increased starting in 1960. If city officials were underreporting crimes, they weren't very good at doing it.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
I've given an answer as to why crime supposedly dropped in the early 1990's: padding the crime statistics, much of it related to sanctuary cities and illegal immigration and the crime that goes along with them.
What was your reason again for the crime rates dropping in the early 90's? (You don't know why).
Quote:
Regarding the alleged 250% increase (from my link)
Year-Population- Violent
1960- 179,323,175- 288,460
1993- 257,908,000- 1,926,020
I aint too good at math, but from 288,460 to 1,926,020 (i.e. violent crimes, which sex trafficking of children falls under) seems to be a bit more than 250%.
Population increase was addressed and the increase in violent crime was way out of proportion to the increase in population.
The immigration problem (both legal and illegal) and the crime that goes with it, started back in 1990.
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc_17_4/tsc_17_4_rubenstein.shtml
Immigration ties in with the child prostitution problem as well, as a large percentage of the boys and girls kidnapped and put into prostitution are from foreign lands.
http://www.libertadlatina.org/LatAm_US_San_Diego_Crisis_Index.htm
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Again, since the crimes behind illegal immigration started adding up, various city officials began underreporting crimes to the FBI. All of that started in the early 1990's.
See below (you acknowledge what I've just stated regarding underreporting).
I didn't refute it because the link I supplied showed that underreporting isn't anything new.
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc_21_4/tsc_21_4_oltman.shtml
That being said, note that crimes increased starting in 1960. If city officials were underreporting crimes, they weren't very good at doing it.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
I've given an answer as to why crime supposedly dropped in the early 1990's: padding the crime statistics, much of it related to sanctuary cities and illegal immigration and the crime that goes along with them.
What was your reason again for the crime rates dropping in the early 90's? (You don't know why).
Quote:
Regarding the alleged 250% increase (from my link)
Year-Population- Violent
1960- 179,323,175- 288,460
1993- 257,908,000- 1,926,020
I aint too good at math, but from 288,460 to 1,926,020 (i.e. violent crimes, which sex trafficking of children falls under) seems to be a bit more than 250%.
Population increase was addressed and the increase in violent crime was way out of proportion to the increase in population.
The immigration problem (both legal and illegal) and the crime that goes with it, started back in 1990.
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc_17_4/tsc_17_4_rubenstein.shtml
Immigration ties in with the child prostitution problem as well, as a large percentage of the boys and girls kidnapped and put into prostitution are from foreign lands.
http://www.libertadlatina.org/LatAm_US_San_Diego_Crisis_Index.htm