Can Anyone Explain 'Why gay marriage?'

[glassjester]

Fair enough. That's your belief.
It's only when people's beliefs cause them to want to contyrol the lives of other people with differing beliefs that it becomes a problem.

For example: Do you think your belief against brothers marrying should prevent brothers from marrying?

Would you want to see that belief imposed on others?

 

[dodge]

Dodge...
SSM and SSCP's are becoming legal all over the western world.
Closed partnerships are good, and please don't try to imagine how people in love make love. Couple's lovemaking can be as different as fingerprints.
I can't discuss love-making on this forum.

I understand that "SIN" is being legalized all over the world. SSM folks are NOT in love they are in LUST.
What you call "closed relationships" God has called abomination, and God does not change to fit whatever NEW or OLD sin people decide to accept or agree with.

Love making is between a man and a woman as lust making is done by SSM people.

Men do not get to change what God requires of them to fit their own sinful desires and lives. Sure they can ignore God and do as HE forbids but there are eternal consequences for those decisions.

 

[eider]

What do you say about brothers in marriage?

I'm guessing that in the UK there would be a problem with the legality of that union. I'm guessing that any siblings in a marriage is unlawful, and our Equality Act 2010 won't provide any special exception for Gays..... is my guess.
Romans 13:1

As reasonable as a sterile, incestuous couple. Do you support their marriage equality?[/QUITE]
That's a criminal offence here. I can't support crime or torts.
Romans 13:1

I haven't said anything weird. I haven't said anything against Catholic doctrine at all.

But it wouldn't .... won't be your perception, but the perceptions of the young, the free young, today and tomorrow.

I agree. Anyone treated unlovingly deserves an apology.

Amen

What does it have to do with homosexual marriage?

It is a new mindset in your Church?

You're taking the Pope's words and using them to support a view he does not agree with. Show me where the Pope has advocated homosexual marriage, or any change of Catholic doctrine at all.

The Pope is showing more love and understanding for Gays than previous Popes, is my guess. Who knows?

Just an aside - are you familiar with the Catholic understanding of papal infallibility? Not what those outside of the Church claim about it, but what the Church actually teaches.

No clues, apart from previous posts by another member.
He told me that it doesn't matter how many children a Pope sired, or how many murders a P{ope committed, or how much bribery a Pope undertook, or how much wealth a Pope might have accumulated, if the Pope sits upon St Peter's chair than his words are direct from God.

..... something like that?

The Bahais have a vaguely similar belief about their spiritual assemblies.
I must ask my visiting JW Elder if the JWs have anything similar.

 

[eider]

For example: Do you think your belief against brothers marrying should prevent brothers from marrying?

Would you want to see that belief imposed on others?

I undertake to obey the laws of my country and support its democratic processes.
At this time I expect that Incestous marriage is unlawful for any siblings at all.


PS. What on Earth has that to do with SSM?

 

[Lon]

Of course!
The 613 were down-to-earth laws intended to increase, strengthen and make the Israelites the most successful people in the lands.
Why can't you see that?

:nono: When I gave you the two laws of Jesus, He said they were the fulfillment of ALL the laws. Meaning? You are wrong about what you think about the OT Law. It was about love. Love for God, Love for man. How is rock-throwing an act of love? Ask God. I know. You?

Jesus was a 100% rational being, with a 100% rational mission, and when Christians demand that the sciptures should be treated and responded to irrationally ....... well, that's just.... irrational.

Exactly.You are irrational and calling it rational. Question: When your 'rationality' meets my 'rationality' one OR both of us are likely irrational, no? I assume it. Your problem? You don't. I am so intelligent, that I realize I'm not that intelligent. Most others? :nono: The more you know, the more the vastness of God is exposed and you realize how much of what you though you knew, was wrong.

No.... I don't read the bible every morning.

No need? You are that smart that you don't need any more? ▲ See above▲

No...... I don't 'know' any translations of the bible to a standard of intimate knowledge. I have never met any person that did....... even JW elders carry a bible with them, and they have the most intimate knowledge of their bibles that I have ever known.

Ask them what they believe about homosexuality. I know the bible much better than they do. Have read it much more often than they do. Not tooting my horn, just telling you to go into the JW's with both eyes open. Personally, I don't believe they know it as well as I do. Look on TOL. I quote scripture all the time. They do scripture searches and spam whenever they use them (not as often as I, and mine come from memory most of the time).

Jesus never intended his followers to deny happiness to any others.
There are no scriptures about Jesus that deny SSM

This is your 'summation' and it is wrong. I know for a fact, JW's disagree with you. That leaves you and a few who don't really love the Lord Jesus Christ at all, naysaying. Since you can't even bother to read the Bible, then this is merely political for you. Right section for it. It just isn't Biblical, and this particular conversation started talking about what matters to Him.

I worry about some of the 'things' which Paul wrote, and I worry about the findings of theological researchers who have reduced Paul's writings down to seven 'boks/letters/epistles'.

More than obvious. Oddly, you've nothing left to become a Jew/Judaized after that. It is all that is left to you. Paul is the only one that will tell you, a gentile, how to walk like a Christian. Most of the rest are concerned with how to walk with Christ as a Jew. I'm not MAD btw. I'm not one that only adheres to Pauline Epistles, but I'm certainly not Judaized. The weird thing: If you are Judaized, then you are yet stuck with the OT that you are desperately trying to eschew. Me? I know for a fact all scripture is about loving God and loving man. The FIRST command it to love God first. If you miss that, you can love homosexuals all day long, but without wishing them Jesus, it isn't real love, it is peripheral love. The first command is to love God. Not wishing that for them? You are condemning them with your 'love' and 'acceptance.' I tell people who don't love Jesus that that is the first command. It is the most important thing. Eider, "Love the Lord Jesus Christ, the Father, and Spirit more than anything else. It is your greatest need to be in communion with Him. Read your Bible. How else can you know Him or love Him? Just 'your own way???' :nono: " Eider: "Loving another as yourself means you and they need the best thing/being in life, the Lord Jesus Christ. Anything less and you aren't truly loving, just acquiescing."

Oh Dear.....
So there is no LUST in any heterosexual relationships?
And there is no LOVE in homosexual relationships?

I don't think that you know much about either, Dodge.

Imho, our argument here is about parenting. 1)The one that says "Yes" to everything. 2) The one that says "no" when it recognizes what is not good for them. Which is the better parent? Imho, me.

I worry that Paul wrote down the verses that offered bad people some self-righteous defence for enslaving others.

:nono: You are incorrect, we are already slaves and born slaves. Rather, you must choose a master for you cannot serve two. You WILL love one and hate the other. Matthew 6 (The Lord Jesus Christ btw, not Paul -but he does too, as he clearly follows Christ).
In a nutshell: False dichotomy. You really truly are trying to pit Paul against the Lord Jesus Christ :nono: False dichotomy. Same message, one just catered to the gentile.

Paul wrote a sentence, or two sentences about homosexuality, because at that time it was bi-sexuality, and could spread sickness. SSM is a closed relationship and therefore cannot spread any sickness.

Honestly, I know of no celibate homosexual. They all have had more than one partner. Did/do you? I was celibate.
More? For 27 years, I was MADE celibate, just like every other being on the planet. Longing is not the same, and in fact, is self-centered toward 'want' vs 'need.' 1 Corinthians 7 says it is best to remain single/celibate. You have an odd idea that this isn't true. Even the Lord Jesus Christ said it was 'better.' You don't believe Paul or the Lord Jesus Christ

 

[eider]

I understand that "SIN" is being legalized all over the world. SSM folks are NOT in love they are in LUST.
What you call "closed relationships" God has called abomination, and God does not change to fit whatever NEW or OLD sin people decide to accept or agree with.

Love making is between a man and a woman as lust making is done by SSM people.

Men do not get to change what God requires of them to fit their own sinful desires and lives. Sure they can ignore God and do as HE forbids but there are eternal consequences for those decisions.

Oh Dear.....
So there is no LUST in any heterosexual relationships?
And there is no LOVE in homosexual relationships?

I don't think that you know much about either, Dodge.

 

[Lon]

PS. What on Earth has that to do with SSM?

A LOT. He is trying to get you to realize that we as a society, are illogical and inconsistent. It may look like apples to oranges, but both are fruit, have peels, etc. IOW, you can compare them even though they are different, same here. Look for his meaning. It is there. -Lon

 

[dodge]

Oh Dear.....
So there is no LUST in any heterosexual relationships?
And there is no LOVE in homosexual relationships?

I don't think that you know much about either, Dodge.

I know when God says it is wrong, abomination, and sin against Him it is better to not disagree with God.

 

[glassjester]

I'm guessing that in the UK there would be a problem with the legality of that union. I'm guessing that any siblings in a marriage is unlawful, and our Equality Act 2010 won't provide any special exception for Gays..... is my guess.

I am not asking what the current law states. I am asking what you think it ought to be.

Do you agree with the current law, that brothers should be denied marriage equality? Or do you think it should change?

 

[eider]

:nono: When I gave you the two laws of Jesus, He said they were the fulfillment of ALL the laws. Meaning? You are wrong about what you think about the OT Law. It was about love. Love for God, Love for man.

Nope. The 613 were all about producing a stronger, more cohesive, more successful nation, or people.
You've got that badly wrong.
You cannot quote any of the 613 that don't fit with my claim, including the sacrificial laws, although Jesus dumped those with one sentence.

Exactly.You are irrational and calling it rational.

No Lon..... I'm calling you irrational.

No need? You are that smart that you don't need any more?

I said that I did not read the bible every morning and you spin it into 'I have no need'.
Seems I cannot trust you.

Ask them what they believe about homosexuality. I know the bible much better than they do. Have read it much more often than they do.

What a big head you've got.
Honestly, you remind me of the Pharisees.

Learn just one true fact from me......
A person can spend a lifetime in hard devout study and search and not find the truth, yet another person can accomplish all in the time that it takes to make one pace. Although I'm not saying that's me.
A person, working hard all day long in a spirit of service to his community can accomplish more spiritually than a self righteous person with a bible.

Not tooting my horn, just telling you to go into the JW's with both eyes open. Personally, I don't believe they know it as well as I do. Look on TOL. I quote scripture all the time. They do scripture searches and spam whenever they use them (not as often as I, and mine come from memory most of the time).

And yet you have no clue about the reasons for the old laws, and may not really understand what Jesus's mission was all about.
You might be too close to the wood to see the trees.

Since you can't even bother to read the Bible, then this is merely political for you.

I tell you that I do not read the bible each morning (or day?) and you write the above.
I could not trust a word you say. So much for your search for the truth.

More than obvious. Oddly, you've nothing left to become a Jew/Judaized after that. It is all that is left to you. Paul is the only one that will tell you, a gentile, how to walk like a Christian. Most of the rest are concerned with how to walk with Christ as a Jew. I'm not MAD btw. I'm not one that only adheres to Pauline Epistles, but I'm certainly not Judaized. The weird thing: If you are Judaized, then you are yet stuck with the OT that you are desperately trying to eschew. Me? I know for a fact all scripture is about loving God and loving man. The FIRST command it to love God first. If you miss that, you can love homosexuals all day long, but without wishing them Jesus, it isn't real love, it is peripheral love. The first command is to love God. Not wishing that for them? You are condemning them with your 'love' and 'acceptance.' I tell people who don't love Jesus that that is the first command. It is the most important thing. Eider, "Love the Lord Jesus Christ, the Father, and Spirit more than anything else. It is your greatest need to be in communion with Him. Read your Bible. How else can you know Him or love Him? Just 'your own way???' :nono: " Eider: "Loving another as yourself means you and they need the best thing/being in life, the Lord Jesus Christ. Anything less and you aren't truly loving, just acquiescing."

I believe that you mean what you say, but you've got Jesus so wrong. It's almost incredible that anybody who reads the bible so much can be so blind to the truth. I believe in the life and mission of Yeshua BarYosef, but my belief is far far from yours.
Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

Imho, our argument here is about parenting. 1)The one that says "Yes" to everything. 2) The one that says "no" when it recognizes what is not good for them. Which is the better parent? Imho, me.

You can't recognise anything about SSM that is accurate imo.
My suggestion is: obey the laws of your country, and leave folks to be happy as they can.
Your belief is a control-freak determined that its way is the only way.
You're wrong.

:nono: You are incorrect, we are already slaves and born slaves. Rather, you must choose a master for you cannot serve two. You WILL love one and hate the other. Matthew 6 (The Lord Jesus Christ btw, not Paul -but he does too, as he clearly follows Christ).
In a nutshell: False dichotomy. You really truly are trying to pit Paul against the Lord Jesus Christ :nono: False dichotomy. Same message, one just catered to the gentile.

Absolute balderdash.
You can't possibly know your bible as well as you boast:-
Colossians 4:1 1 Peter 2:18 Ephesians 6:5 Colossians 3:22 Titus 2:9 1 Timothy 6:1-2

Honestly, I know of no celibate homosexual. They all have had more than one partner. Did/do you? I was celibate.

I have never been Gay.
Married for 20 years. Widowered. Married for 25 years.
And my pagan wife had never had a boyfriend at 24 years old, when I met with her.

1 Corinthians 7 says it is best to remain single/celibate. You have an odd idea that this isn't true. Even the Lord Jesus Christ said it was 'better.' You don't believe Paul or the Lord Jesus Christ

Let me see..... I'll take a gamble:-
I don't believe you. Please 'source' what Jesus said about celibacy being 'better'.
Please DO NOT try and quote Jesus's support for genderlessness. That is different/.

 

[MrDante]

"Gay marriage" does not exist.

It is only the legalized coupling of sodomites, blessed by a depraved and dying society.

Self-delusion: the action of deluding oneself; failure to recognize reality.

 

[MrDante]

I see you still do not get it. Is it natural to drink rattle snake poison I mean after all it is in nature ?

DO what you want with snake venom, the venom itself is natural.

Same for same sex it is in nature but is UN-natural for people to accept or indulge in that nasty, perverted, and UN-healthy behavior. Fecal matter is supposed to be flushed not played with.



There are many things in "nature" that will kill or make a human sick not everything in nature is good for folks. I understand perfectly that the same sex community uses perversion of nature to justify their perversion.



Nah, the stupid ones drop their pants sees their genitalia and then says nope that is not who I identify as now that is not only stupid but eternally dangerous.

Definatley a Poe

 

[MrDante]

I agree. Anyone treated unlovingly deserves an apology.

there are millions of gays and lesbians out there waiting for your apology, better get started.

 

[MrDante]

What false claim? I asked you if there are people whose lifestyles you do not think are good. You objected to the word "lifestyle."


It was a question; not a claim.


I'll ask again. I'll rephrase it, as it seems the word "lifestyle" is just too horribly offensive.
Are there people who live their lives in a way that you do not think is good?

No. I meant lifestyle when I said lifestyle. I didn't say orientation. You assumed. An orientation cannot be sinful.

I didn't say anything about an orientation yet you continue to babble on as if I did.

 

[MrDante]

I understand that "SIN" is being legalized all over the world. SSM folks are NOT in love they are in LUST.

The same could be said of your parents.

 

[dodge]

The same could be said of your parents.

lol, they were a "man" and a "woman" not perverts.

 

[kiwimacahau]

:darwinsm:

:mock:i-durrrr, the :loser:

Ah,your usual depth of scholarship there OD; How well do you read Greek and Hebrew?

 

[kiwimacahau]

There is no light in same sex !

Jesus said, "when it gets like Sodom and Gomorrah look up your redeemer draws near".
It is getting like that more everyday. Time is short keep following you and you will spend eternity in hell.

According to both Jesus and Ezekiel, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhsopitality.

 

[glassjester]

there are millions of gays and lesbians out there waiting for your apology, better get started.

I have not treated any of the homosexuals I know unjustly.

 

[glassjester]

I didn't say anything about an orientation yet you continue to babble on as if I did.

Yes or no - are there people whose way of life you disapprove of?