Biden: To hell with God and the Church. I'm taking communion.

[ok doser]

Not surprised to hear this, which is why all this outrage at what's a Catholic Church matter is so transparent...

I too feel that no one should be a Roman Catholic and yet I can feel outrage over the way they mishandled the child abuse scandals over the years.

Do you see transparency in that?

Or do you suppose that your interpretation is biased by your obsession with our former president?

 

[ok doser]

Not surprised to hear this, which is why all this outrage at what's a Catholic Church matter is so transparent...

You know what I'm REALLY outraged about?

 

[annabenedetti]

I too feel that no one should be a Roman Catholic

Interesting.

and yet I can feel outrage over the way they mishandled the child abuse scandals over the years.

Do you see transparency in that?

Or do you suppose that your interpretation is biased by your obsession with our former president?

It's a fair question, asking if the evangelical outrage over Communion would be the same if Trump was Catholic. I doubt I'll get a fair answer.

The Church absolutely mishandled the child abuse scandals. But this isn't about that. This is a doctrinal question, not a law enforcement issue.

 

[annabenedetti]

You know what I'm REALLY outraged about?

Still posting that lie of a meme, I see.

 

[Idolater]

Encouragement

View attachment 1251

It's rare for a priest /celebrant to withhold Communion unless the sin is publicly known, which is why this is a discussion, because obviously President Biden's policy positions are publicly known. But until the bishops weigh in (and maybe the pope needs to be involved too), it's far from clear that any particular priest should withhold Communion from the president.

 

[ok doser]

Interesting.


It's a fair question, asking if the evangelical outrage over Communion would be the same if Trump was Catholic. I doubt I'll get a fair answer.

The Church absolutely mishandled the child abuse scandals.

By treating them as doctrinal matters

But this isn't about that. This is a doctrinal question, not a law enforcement issue.

It should be a law enforcement issue as it deals with the murder of a child.

 

[ok doser]

It's rare for a priest /celebrant to withhold Communion unless the sin is publicly known, which is why this is a discussion, because obviously President Biden's policy positions are publicly known. But until the bishops weigh in (and maybe the pope needs to be involved too), it's far from clear that any particular priest should withhold Communion from the president.

Priests don't have that degree of autonomy when dealing with their parishioners?

 

[annabenedetti]

By treating them as doctrinal matters

It should be a law enforcement issue as it deals with the murder of a child.

You're not getting it. It's not a law enforcement issue whether or not Biden goes to Communion.

 

[annabenedetti]

Priests don't have that degree of autonomy when dealing with their parishioners?

No, they don't.

 

[ok doser]

You're not getting it. It's not a law enforcement issue, whether or not Biden goes to Communion.

And the RCC hierarchy made the same argument regarding the child abuse scandals.

 

[annabenedetti]

And the RCC hierarchy made the same argument regarding the child abuse scandals.

No, they didn't.

 

[ok doser]

No, they don't.

A priest hears in confession that a parishioner has been raping his 6 year old daughter and intends to continue doing so. The priest doesn't have the autonomy to deny him communion?

 

[annabenedetti]

A priest hears in confession that a parishioner has been raping his 6 year old daughter and intends to continue doing so. The priest doesn't have the autonomy to deny him communion?

It's my understanding without doing some looking around canon law, in that scenario it depends on if it's publicly known/under the seal of confession. In Biden's case, which isn't comparable in degree or kind to your example, it's not clear to anyone whether all the bishops are on the same page as to whether he would be in grave sin.

 

[ok doser]

... Biden's case, which isn't comparable in degree or kind to your example ...

Right, because it involves the murder of a child instead of merely the sexual abuse.

 

[annabenedetti]

Right, because it involves the murder of a child instead of merely the sexual abuse.

Still not there. To make your comparison valid, you'd have to have Biden personally obtaining an abortion for someone, which is a Church issue, not a law enforcement issue, because abortion in this country is legal. And there's a difference between material cooperation and remote mediate material cooperation, which ties into the principle of double effect.

 

[annabenedetti]

Regarding the disagreement between bishops:

Vatican Warns U.S. Bishops About Denying Communion To Biden And Other Catholic Pro-Abortion Politicians

Among the leaders of the campaign to rebuke Biden is Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco, who recently issued a pastoral letter arguing that Catholic politicians who support abortion rights should not receive Communion. A few days later, Bishop Robert McElroy of San Diego published an essay opposing that, saying such an initiative "will bring tremendously destructive consequences."



And:



Father Thomas Reese, a Jesuit Catholic priest and senior analyst at the Religion News Service, told CBN News the bishops are very unhappy with President Biden's position on abortion, but the whole communion question is something else entirely.

"The bishops' conference that meets in June has absolutely no authority to tell President Biden that he cannot go to Communion," Reese said. "Under canon law, they do not have that authority."

"The only person that has authority over who goes to communion in his diocese is the local bishop," Reese explained. "So for Washington, D.C., that is Cardinal Wilton Gregory who has made clear that he is going to allow President Biden to go to Communion."

 

[Idolater]

Nor have I

Sure you have. You've heard that he attends Mass weekly, and has for very many years basically without exception. He goes to Mass even when he leaves the country.

In this day and age, there is simply no other good explanation for a Catholic coming to Mass weekly unless he really believes in Jesus Christ.

 

[Idolater]

A priest hears in confession that a parishioner has been raping his 6 year old daughter and intends to continue doing so. The priest doesn't have the autonomy to deny him communion?

Unsure on that particular hypothetical, but I am sure that precisely none of the child rapists ever "confessed" to anything.

These cretins are violent criminals and rival only serial killers in their dishonesty. Lying and murdering and raping kids is all the same to them.

 

[ok doser]

Sure you have.

I was referring to him having been on my radar for the last 45 years.

In this day and age, there is simply no other good explanation for a Catholic coming to Mass weekly unless he really believes in Jesus Christ.

Or is a venal, career politician who knows the value of the optics.

 

[Idolater]

God knows! We all have to face Christ in the end.

Catholics face Him at every Mass, whether or not we partake of the altar, as He is Really Present in the Eucharist.

He is why we kneel there.