Bernie Sanders, Anti-American!

[rexlunae]

And while we modern Americans focus on how much more money Bill Gates has than the rest of us, our time-traveler would likely find the differences separating Gates from average Americans to be much smaller than the gargantuan differences between his own pre-industrial life and that of today’s ordinary Americans.

He would also likely find the wealth differences between ordinary Americans and the richest Americans trivial compared to the differences between most pre-industrial folk and the royalty who ruled them.

Sure. And if we were comparing modern life to living in the distant past, that might be in some way relevant.

Please show the relevance of their accusation [it commodifies lives and exploits workers for profits for owners, transferring wealth to owners] in light of the larger fact that capitalism continually makes increasing numbers and varieties of goods and services accessible to ever larger numbers of people.
http://fee.org/freeman/equality-and-capitalism/

In other words, 'who cares that your iPhone is made by slaves? It's worth it.'

Let’s set the record straight: Far from having failed, democratic capitalism is the world’s greatest success story. No other system has improved the lives of so many people.
"Entrepreneurial capitalism takes more people out of poverty than aid.” That statement came not from a tea-party leader or a congressional Republican, but from Bono, singer, celebrity, and global anti-poverty activist, speaking to Georgetown’s Global Social Enterprise Initiative last year. As we mark the second anniversary of Occupy Wall Street this week, it is worth recalling just how much Bono is right and OWS, at its anti-capitalist core, is deeply and profoundly wrong.Yet capitalism has done more to empower people and raise living standards than any other force in history. Throughout most of human history, nearly everyone was poor. Even our wealthiest ancestors enjoyed lower standards of living than ordinary people in America today. It was not until the beginning of the 19th century that the masses started to enjoy real and growing prosperity.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/358771/capitalisms-triumph-michael-tanner

I always get my economic theory from rock stars.

In any case, I'm not denying capitalism's accomplishments, or advocating for it to be abolished. What I'm suggesting is that it isn't an unmitigated good. That its excesses will inevitably lead to bad outcomes, and that it needs to be kept in check.

Are you kidding? If you going to use China, at least use the status of the people under Communism prior to their introduction of capitalism to compare, otherwise you are more than disingenuous.

That's certainly a part of it. But they didn't just throw out socialism, either. They retained a lot of central control and planning. And they lifted a half billion people out of poverty in a few decades.

 

[kmoney]

Well, if they are hoping that they'll have an easier time against Sanders, I think they may be setting themselves up to fail.

There seems to be two aspects. What you say, and then making it harder on Clinton to win the primary and she'll be weaker in the general.

I have always thought Sanders' greater challenge was going to be the primary, not the general. I think his appeal is more widespread than most people appreciate, and the real final battle for the presidency is a fight for independent voters, while Clinton has a lot of support within the Democratic party, her negatives outside of it are huge. It's not hard to make the case that over the past few years, the wealthy have been getting their way an awful lot, through Clinton, Bush, and Obama administrations, and Sanders has as much credibility to make that case as anyone else I can think of.

I think there is some truth in all that. But like I said, I think Sanders is hurt by his one-track mindset. From what I've heard, which admittedly isn't much, Sanders has no real foreign policy vision, which is very important for a potential president. I feel like him talking about foreign policy is about as good as Carson on the Republican side. That may not end up hurting him, but I think part of Clinton's appeal would be that she's well-rounded.

It might not be saying much but I've seen polls that say Sanders would beat Trump in a matchup.

 

[Mocking You]

 

[patrick jane]

While the cost of tuition remains a major barrier for many students in the US, a number of countries have adopted a tuition-free policy - some have even extended that privilege to their subsidize their "poor" American cousins.

Countries that have free tuition
************************************
Austria (Americans can attend tuition free)

Brazil

Denmark

Finland (Americans can attend tuition free)

Iceland (Americans can attend tuition free)

France (Americans can attend tuition free)

Germany (Americans can attend tuition free)

Ireland (Americans can attend tuition free)

Norway (Americans can attend tuition free)

Sweden (Americans can attend tuition free)

Slovenia

http://www.scholars4dev.com/4031/li...uition-freelow-tuition-universities-colleges/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...versities-in-english-for-free-or-almost-free/

I didn't know that, I've considered moving to Ireland for the rest of my life. Free tuition would be great, and they speak English. If the cost of living is right it would be a nice fit.

 

[drbrumley]

I didn't know that, I've considered moving to Ireland for the rest of my life. Free tuition would be great, and they speak English. If the cost of living is right it would be a nice fit.

Now I know you know nothings free....someone is paying for it.

 

[rocketman]

I'm just enjoying the dismay and confusion from the Right as he rises in the polls. It's not largesse toward the poor that threatens to bankrupt the country. It's favors for the idle rich; the money managers, the vulture capitalists, and the trust fund babies.

Have some more kool-aid...:chuckle: The man is an old hippie commie nut job, a leftover from the sixties. I can say as someone on the Right that I hope he gets the nomination, and it is not confusing why support for him has risen, Hillary is a naked felon just awaiting an indictment, her exploits as SOS are trashing what little bit of credibility she has, which aint much. Bernie is the best thing that could happen for the republicans in this cycle, the lunacy on the left assures that the only people voting for a Bernie or Hillary are hardcore leftists but, the independents (a 45% voting block) will leave the left hanging this go around, they can't sell it to them again. :thumb:

 

[Ktoyou]

Sanders is a communist idiot who would run what's left of this country into the ground in record time. By the way, Social Security is not part of the free stuff I was talking about. Social Security was paid for and earned over a lifetime. Social Security is a legal debt - completely UNLIKE a free college education poor old Bernie is pushing. Poor old Bernie has no common sense and just wants to spend more money that we don't have. Rich folks could pay 100% of what they make and not solve the problem. We need to get some common sense before it's too late.

common sense, yep, and this is how much Bernie has { }

 

[Ktoyou]

Have some more kool-aid...:chuckle: The man is an old hippie commie nut job, a leftover from the sixties. I can say as someone on the Right that I hope he gets the nomination, and it is not confusing why support for him has risen, Hillary is a naked felon just awaiting an indictment, her exploits as SOS are trashing what little bit of credibility she has, which aint much. Bernie is the best thing that could happen for the republicans in this cycle, the lunacy on the left assures that the only people voting for a Bernie or Hillary are hardcore leftists but, the independents (a 45% voting block) will leave the left hanging this go around, they can't sell it to them again. :thumb:

old hippie, Bernie need a time machine to send him back to the 60s

 

[Ktoyou]

Which is why Sanders supports tax cuts for the middle and working class...

Not really. Not when Hillary has more 'hands off' policy on those making less than 250K a year. Bernie wants to raise taxes because he thinks most people are too stupid to think for themselves. Typical socialist!

 

[rocketman]

old hippie, Bernie need a time machine to send him back to the 60s

Should have said "burned out old hippie commie", he will sell well to the "give it to me for free" crowd which is an ever increasing group. The stupidity of it is if he had his way all those achievers won't achieve in America, they will move elsewhere and nobody will be left to fund all the freebies. Nobody, especially society owes you a college degree, a good job, a home, etc. these are things that have to be toiled & sacrificed for, and even in Bernie's loony world they won't be free, just more unattainable for most.

 

[Ktoyou]

Should have said "burned out old hippie commie", he will sell well to the "give it to me for free" crowd which is an ever increasing group. The stupidity of it is if he had his way all those achievers won't achieve in America, they will move elsewhere and nobody will be left to fund all the freebies. Nobody, especially society owes you a college degree, a good job, a home, etc. these are things that have to be toiled & sacrificed for, and even in Bernie's loony world they won't be free, just more unattainable for most.

We who read history have seen this before, Rome fell by entropy. All, te citizens were given handouts whole the army eventually became the same people as the German barbarians they had been fighting. The end was inevitable. The wealthy optimates made out alright during the early middle-ages..

 

[jgarden]

It gives people opportunity to lift themselves out of poverty. It also profits the owners. Everyone wins. The ones who don't win are those who hate profit and anyone who has more wealth than they do.

The first time I hear someone utter the word " exploit ", I know I'm dealing with someone who despises profit. I also know I'm dealing with someone who thinks living anything but a spartan lifestyle is evil and that we should lower our population to before the bronze age.

The US has one of the worst upward mobility records of any of the world's modern democracies.

Its all well and good to talk about improving one's position in life, but the statistics show that Europeans are far more likely to experience the "The Scandinavian Dream" in a socialist country than US citizens have of experiencing "The American Dream" in a capitalist one!

 

[Krsto]

Throughout his life, Bernie Sanders has been working for socialism, the forum of government where all enterprise is controlled by the State, and is transitional to communism, where everyone is prohibited from enjoying their desire for a better life. He calls himself a socialist, specifically a "democratic socialist", yet he is really a pinko commie!

Sanders has made most of his campaign promises to socialist groups, the words he uses betray that his end-goal, which is actually to spread communism.

Sanders embraces the communist ideals that markets are detrimental to "the people", and are fundamentally unjust.

In an address on class warfare, envy, and hatred, he declared that financial inequality "is immoral, it is bad economics, it is unsustainable." This is tantamount to saying that the only just society is one in which everyone has the same amount of money or that anyone who has the ability to make a lot of money is an enemy of "the people".

Bernie Sanders is Anti-American and those who vote for him should be deported to a communist country of their choosing!

You could not be more wrong about what Bernie believes. You have taken the label "socialist", and from that deduced what he believes, rather than taking a look at what he believes, and deciding if the label fits. Even though he has at times agreed to the term he is not a Socialist because a Socialist believes the government should own the means of production, and he doesn't believe that. What he believes are the “long social-democratic tradition” of Nordic countries as examples of how the United States should operate as a nation. For instance, he points to Finland's universal healthcare, free childcare, parental leave benefits, free higher education, low income inequality, and overwhelming unionization of workers.

Sanders wants a level playing field, where everyone born in America actually has the same opportunity for success, instead of "a government of the billionaires, by the billionaires and for the billionaires," as he puts it. He rails against the influence of the Koch brothers and other wealthy political donors and corporations on both Republicans on Democrats, ensuring that the rich stay rich and making sure the working class remain exactly that. While many Democrats claim to be in favor of leveling the playing field, few use the rhetoric Sanders does. He has suggested things like breaking up the largest banks and frequently refers to the United States as an oligarchy.

To say he is an enemy of the US is shallow demagoguery akin to what Trump is good at. There is no basis for claiming he wants to turn our country into a communist state. In fact, quite the opposite, since a communist state is an oligarchy and he is trying to break up our oligarchy.

America is partly a social democracy already, of course, thanks to programs such as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, unemployment insurance, and food stamps. Sanders doesn’t want the government to run the entire economy, but he does want the government to ensure that the economy doesn't regularly ruin millions of people's lives. And therein lies his popularity, winning his US Senate seat by 71%.

 

[drbrumley]

You could not be more wrong about what Bernie believes. You have taken the label "socialist", and from that deduced what he believes, rather than taking a look at what he believes, and deciding if the label fits. Even though he has at times agreed to the term he is not a Socialist because a Socialist believes the government should own the means of production, and he doesn't believe that. What he believes are the “long social-democratic tradition” of Nordic countries as examples of how the United States should operate as a nation. For instance, he points to Finland's universal healthcare, free childcare, parental leave benefits, free higher education, low income inequality, and overwhelming unionization of workers.

Sanders wants a level playing field, where everyone born in America actually has the same opportunity for success, instead of "a government of the billionaires, by the billionaires and for the billionaires," as he puts it. He rails against the influence of the Koch brothers and other wealthy political donors and corporations on both Republicans on Democrats, ensuring that the rich stay rich and making sure the working class remain exactly that. While many Democrats claim to be in favor of leveling the playing field, few use the rhetoric Sanders does. He has suggested things like breaking up the largest banks and frequently refers to the United States as an oligarchy.

To say he is an enemy of the US is shallow demagoguery akin to what Trump is good at. There is no basis for claiming he wants to turn our country into a communist state. In fact, quite the opposite, since a communist state is an oligarchy and he is trying to break up our oligarchy.

America is partly a social democracy already, of course, thanks to programs such as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, unemployment insurance, and food stamps. Sanders doesn’t want the government to run the entire economy, but he does want the government to ensure that the economy doesn't regularly ruin millions of people's lives. And therein lies his popularity, winning his US Senate seat by 71%.

Thank you Will Tippens

The Bernie Sanders of today is just a politician who very much wants the government to intervene more and not less in our lives, which has been the prevailing attitude of every major politician of the past hundred years. For all of his peevishness towards today’s very real problems, his solution is always more of what we already have–a bloated, imperious central authority intervening in all walks of life. Bernie Sanders and his ideas are not revolutionary in any way, he is simply another flavor of authoritarian who believes he has the right to use coercion to achieve whatever ends he sees fit, and nothing more.

But hey, at least he’s not Hillary Clinton.

 

[drbrumley]

Throughout his life, Bernie Sanders has been working for socialism, the forum of government where all enterprise is controlled by the State, and is transitional to communism, where everyone is prohibited from enjoying their desire for a better life. He calls himself a socialist, specifically a "democratic socialist", yet he is really a pinko commie!

Sanders has made most of his campaign promises to socialist groups, the words he uses betray that his end-goal, which is actually to spread communism.

Sanders embraces the communist ideals that markets are detrimental to "the people", and are fundamentally unjust.

In an address on class warfare, envy, and hatred, he declared that financial inequality "is immoral, it is bad economics, it is unsustainable." This is tantamount to saying that the only just society is one in which everyone has the same amount of money or that anyone who has the ability to make a lot of money is an enemy of "the people".

Bernie Sanders is Anti-American and those who vote for him should be deported to a communist country of their choosing!

I would add Republicans too. In the In case you didn't know file...

Yet, even though most people think there are many differences between Sanders and the typical Republican member of Congress and between Sanders and the current crop of Republican presidential candidates, there are not as many differences as most people think.

It is because Sanders and Republicans support so many of the same things that I have prepared this Sanders-Republican checklist.

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on Head Start:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on farm subsidies:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on Medicare:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on Medicaid:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on Social Security:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on food stamps:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to provide the refundable Additional Child Tax Credit:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to give students Pell Grants:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on the Community Development Block Grant Program (CDBG):

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on the National School Lunch Program (NSLP):

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF):

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on Supplemental Security Income (SSI):

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP):

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers to provide the refundable Earned Income Tax Credit (ETIC):

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to pay unemployment benefits:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to fund Section 8 rent subsidies:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to fund community health centers:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP):

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and funding federal job training programs:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on Women, Infants, and Children (WIC):

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Clearly, Republicans are incorrigible welfare statists just like Democrats, and just like the “socialist” Bernie Sanders.

As if being such supporters of the welfare state that FDR and LBJ would be proud was not horrible enough, Republicans are just like Sanders when it comes to many other issues as well. Enough to continue the Sanders-Republican checklist.

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to fight the war on drugs:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers to operate the National Instant Criminal Background Check System:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to enforce federal anti-discrimination laws:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and spending it on foreign military interventions:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and giving it to NASA for space exploration:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and giving it to foreigners and their governments:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to enforce federal gambling laws:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to fund the Elementary and Secondary Education Act:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to fund the departments of Health and Human Services, Education, Housing and Urban Development, and Energy:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers and using it to fund the FTC, EEOC, FCC, SEC, NEA, NEH, EPA, FHA, ATF, and TSA:

[√] Bernie Sanders [√] The majority of Republicans

Just like welfare spending, all of this spending is unconstitutional.

 

[TracerBullet]

Sanders is a communist idiot who would run what's left of this country into the ground in record time.

You keep saying such things but saying things don't make them true or even supportable.

and if you are going call someone a "communist idiot" you need to know what communism is because you obviously don't and that makes you look...well you know.

By the way, Social Security is not part of the free stuff I was talking about. Social Security was paid for and earned over a lifetime. Social Security is a legal debt -

That is nice But I wasn't talking about social security.

That aside you might want to look into the attacks all off the republican candidates are leveling at scial security and then look at the attacks and cuts that republicans have made to SS in the last year or so.

completely UNLIKE a free college education poor old Bernie is pushing. Poor old Bernie has no common sense and just wants to spend more money that we don't have. Rich folks could pay 100% of what they make and not solve the problem. We need to get some common sense before it's too late.

Except we do have the money for that and so much more

 

[Ktoyou]

The US has one of the worst upward mobility records of any of the world's modern democracies.

Its all well and good to talk about improving one's position in life, but the statistics show that Europeans are far more likely to experience the "The Scandinavian Dream" in a socialist country than US citizens have of experiencing "The American Dream" in a capitalist one!

"The Scandinavian Dream", being overrun with Christian and secular hating Muslims. In 20 years Sweden will be ruined by their own foolishness.

 

[TracerBullet]

In the US, the total income for everyone, so far as I am aware, is somewhere in the ball park of 13 trillion dollars per year. The current budget is a little less than 4 trillion dollars a year. Given that the top 10 percent of earners make roughly half of all income (and that percentage is rising over time), I think the US can afford it. [In fact, the top 10 percent, all by themselves, could afford it.] Even if the budget doubled, the US could still probably afford it.

The US isn't in debt because of a lack of ability for the taxpayers to pay. The US is in debt because a certain demographic of this country isn't paying enough.

Thus the reason I like Sanders, at least, in terms of his economics. He'll make them pay. He'll make them pay dearly.

not dearly, just at a rate comparable to everyone else

 

[Ktoyou]

To sum it up, Bernie Sanders "Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers"

 

[drbrumley]

To sum it up, Bernie Sanders "Supports taking money from U.S. taxpayers"

Yep, in which 95% or more of the American people don't really care. As long as thier pan is greased, they have no issues with it.