Are pro-lifers who say No exception 4 rape/incest.. extremists?

[ebenz47037]

I know that, compared to a lot of people, my ideas on abortion are extreme. My daughter (25 years old) just told me that I'm an extremist because I believe that a rapist should be put to death instead of the product of a rape being put to death. She believes that children, up to age 18 to 21, are parasites because they cannot live without the assistance of adults.

 

[WizardofOz]

I think those who want to force a woman against her will to bring a baby into the world that was the product of her being brutally raped and emotionally traumatized, and who may not have the means to care for the baby once it's born, need to rethink some things

What if the rape victim is 7 months pregnant? Should it be legal for her to abort?

 

[Rusha]

Or you could counsel them, as in the case with abortion. I noticed you never apologized for claiming that I didn't allow counsel to rape victims who were impregnated. Interesting

I could not nor would I offer anyone counsel which included telling them abortion OR suicide is a viable option.

I am not going to apologize for your misunderstanding of whatever soap box you are protesting from. Counseling a rape victim WITH THE OPTION of abortion is something I am against. Outside of that, all traumatized victims should consider counseling.

And when the person goes home from the police station after telling them they're fine, then immediately goes to the kitchen to cut their wrists, the problem is somehow solved by that 911 call? Didn't think so.

Oh. You believe the intent of calling the police would be to put the person in jail? Silly you. It would be for the purpose of having the police put a psychiatric hold on them at a hospital where a professional could evaluate them. I suppose your method would be to tell them it is their *choice*, eh?

And I recognize that you shouldn't force your will onto a young, scared, mentally shattered woman because you claim to know what's best for somebody else.

Says the person who believes it's fine and dandy for women to FORCE their will on their unborn baby ... lain:

I guess we're both monsters, aren't we?

Nope, just you.

 

[glassjester]

I know that, compared to a lot of people, my ideas on abortion are extreme. My daughter (25 years old) just told me that I'm an extremist because I believe that a rapist should be put to death instead of the product of a rape being put to death. She believes that children, up to age 18 to 21, are parasites because they cannot live without the assistance of adults.

She believes in 87th trimester abortions? Yikes.

 

[glassjester]

I am going to stop trying to explain this to you because it is perfectly clear you are not interested in what I have to offer.


Premature babies are not the same as a fetus.

It's a fair question. You said that being able to self-sustain for a "period of time" is an objective measure of personhood.

So. How long? Let's be objective.

 

[ebenz47037]

She believes in 87th trimester abortions? Yikes.

:chuckle: I asked her if that meant that I could abort her a month before her 21st birthday (she was still living with me and being supported by me then). She didn't answer.

 

[Quetzal]

It's a fair question. You said that being able to self-sustain for a "period of time" is an objective measure of personhood.

So. How long? Let's be objective.

You are being purposefully dense for the sake of argument. I have explained it several different ways and if that is still not enough, then nothing will be. For now, it is late and I will head off for the night. If the discussion is still going in the morning, I will revisit. Until then... :cheers:

 

[glassjester]

You are being purposefully dense for the sake of argument. I have explained it several different ways and if that is still not enough, then nothing will be.

If self-sustaining for a "period of time" determines our right to be alive, we really ought to know what that period of time is.

For now, it is late and I will head off for the night. If the discussion is still going in the morning, I will revisit. Until then... :cheers:

Not a bad plan.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I won't bother trying to convince you that it might not be murder.

Good, because that would be like trying to convince yourself that water is not wet.

If the rape victim wants an abortion, how is giving that to her not avoiding further trauma?

You are right in thinking that giving a rape victim an abortion would not be avoiding further trauma, because it would be adding a new trauma on her.

And how is denying her that avoiding further trauma?

I can't believe you are asking how telling her not to murder her own baby would not be avoiding further trauma.

Your pressuring her into murdering her own child because of rape or incest will result in much more trauma.

_____
Women at Risk of Post-Abortion Trauma
. . .
WHAT WOMEN SUFFER

Researchers investigating post-abortion reactions report only one positive emotion: relief. This emotion is understandable, especially in light of the high degree of pressure aborting women feel to “get it over with.”5,14

Temporary feelings of relief are frequently followed by a period psychiatrists identify as emotional “paralysis,” or post-abortion “numbness.”7 Like shell-shocked soldiers, these aborted women are unable to express or even feel their own emotions. Their focus is primarily on having survived the ordeal, and they may be, at least temporarily, out of touch with their feelings.

Studies within the first few weeks after the abortion have found that between 40 and 60 percent of the women questioned reporting at least some negative reactions.1,14,19 In one study of 500 aborted women, researchers found that 50 percent expressed negative feelings, and up to 10 percent were classified as having developed “serious psychiatric complications.”6

Thirty to fifty percent of aborted women report experiencing sexual dysfunctions, of a temporary or permanent nature, which appear immediately after their abortions.5,14 These problems may include one or more of the following: loss of pleasure from intercourse, increased pain, an aversion to sex and/or males in general, or the development of a promiscuous lifestyle.
. . .
_____​

You do realize that I am against abortion in all cases but rape and incest don't you? Probably not.

You do realize that compromising with the sanctity of human life in order to murder a child that came from a rape or an incest is what allowed the entire Roe v. Wade decision to open up abortion for any and all reasons, don't you? Probably not.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Of course, we don't actually know when a fetus becomes a baby

When has a fetus ever not been a baby?

fetus - etymology
1350-1400; Middle English < Latin fētus bringing forth of young, hence that which is born

Premature babies are not the same as a fetus.

Are you claiming that Premature babies have not been born?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I'll just ask you this: If a sixteen year old girl was impregnated via rape, she did not want to carry the fetus to full-term due to embarrassment, shame, and fear of ridicule

People like you should stop causing people like her to feel embarrassed, feel shame, or fear ridicule from people like you for not murdering her child.

Of course. She would NOT receive my consent. Anyone who would ridicule her or shame her is someone she should treat in the same manner as something stuck to the bottom of her shoe.

It would help a if we could find a way to stop the pro-abortion people from ridiculing and shaming victims of rape.

 

[genuineoriginal]

We know that thousands of women used to die in America every year from botched illegal abortions

That is something popularly called "instant karma".

 

[moparguy]

I'd say so. Can't imagine why anyone would force a rape victim to go through even more shame and life changing stress that she never asked or consented for. A bit cruel wouldn't you say?

As if it's not cruel to murder the child for something it had zero control over and no moral culpability for.

No, the woman's feelings are more important than human life is; therefore, do an evil to (supposedly) alleviate her feelings about another evil that was done to her.

 

[Greg Jennings]

And offer suicide as an option?

I just don't know how you come to these sorts of conclusions from what I am saying. It's baffling

 

[Greg Jennings]

See what I mean, Greg? Now that the faulty comparison has been suggested it is almost impossible for them to carry on their positions without it.

Haha oh I see all too clearly my friend. It's like arguing with Nancy Grace

 

[Greg Jennings]

What's "a period" of time?

Is it however long you decide?

Let's see if I got this right: You have a problem with someone else deciding what length a certain "period of time" should be, but no problem with yourself deciding that a rape victim cannot have an abortion if she wants one?


I'll let that sit for a moment

 

[Greg Jennings]

What if the rape victim is 7 months pregnant? Should it be legal for her to abort?

That's a toughie. If she didn't know before that point she was pregnant then I'd say yes. If she did and still waited that long to have something done then I'd say no.

 

[Greg Jennings]

I could not nor would I offer anyone counsel which included telling them abortion OR suicide is a viable option.

I am not going to apologize for your misunderstanding of whatever soap box you are protesting from. Counseling a rape victim WITH THE OPTION of abortion is something I am against. Outside of that, all traumatized victims should consider counseling.

Well the Word Twisting Queen has struck again. Nobody ever said that you should counsel anyone to commit suicide.

Oh. You believe the intent of calling the police would be to put the person in jail? Silly you. It would be for the purpose of having the police put a psychiatric hold on them at a hospital where a professional could evaluate them. I suppose your method would be to tell them it is their *choice*, eh?

And the Word Twisting Queen strikes again. Police station and jail aren't synonymous, though there is normally a jail inside of a police station. My point stands: you can't stop someone from killing themselves without literally constant supervision. You can counsel them all you want, but at the end of the day if they are determined to kill themselves then they're gonna do just that.

Says the person who believes it's fine and dandy for women to FORCE their will on their unborn baby ... lain:

Says the woman who believes she should have the right to FORCE all rape victims against their will to undergo more trauma and depression, perhaps resulting in suicides among a few of them (you know, that thing you and your ilk have taken a liking to comparing to abortion?)

Nope, just you.

The number 1 way to tell if a person is delusional: they have a mentality of "I am always right and you are always wrong, no matter what. I know better than everyone else, and I know what's best for everyone else." Congratulations! You qualify

 

[Greg Jennings]

When has a fetus ever not been a baby?

fetus - etymology
1350-1400; Middle English < Latin fētus bringing forth of young, hence that which is born

And what there contradicts any of what I've said?

Are you claiming that Premature babies have not been born?

Yeah. Because that makes a lot of sense. The earliest that premature babies can be born and survive in a NICU is about 22 weeks. That's
way way past the first trimester. Do some research buddy. It won't kill you

 

[Greg Jennings]

People like you should stop causing people like her to feel embarrassed, feel shame, or fear ridicule from people like you for not murdering her child.


It would help a if we could find a way to stop the pro-abortion people from ridiculing and shaming victims of rape.

I would call you the King of Word Twisting, but that would imply that you weren't just lying and making things up. Whatever floats your boat I guess, but I've heard that Christians consider lying a sin. You are a Christian, aren't you? Perhaps just in name only. There seem to be a large amount of those around