Are pro-lifers who say No exception 4 rape/incest.. extremists?

[Quetzal]

Are you incapable of discussing the standard by which you judge whether a law is just?

We're not talking about what the law is, but what it should be.

That isn't what you asked. You asked why the comment regarding when a fetus becomes a person is important. I told you why. If you refuse to accept that very straight forward answer, that is on you. If you want to talk about something else, that's fine, too.

 

[Greg Jennings]

What if she wanted to commit suicide? Would you force her to live?

This is related, how? But I'll humor you


You can't force somebody to live without literally constant supervision. If they want to kill themselves then they'll find a way. All you can do is talk to them and try and convince them not to make that choice to end their life, just as all you can do is talk to an impregnated rape victim and try to convince them to have the baby

 

[Quetzal]

This is related, how? But I'll humor you

It's not, but it is common when certain members get cornered they resort to false comparison fallacies in a desperate attempt to make their argument relevant.

 

[Greg Jennings]

She could avoid the same problems by killing herself. Why would we, as a society, counsel her against doing so?

Remind me where I said that you're not allowed to counsel the impregnated rape victim in an attempt to convince her to keep the baby? Oh yeah.....I didn't

 

[Rusha]

She could avoid the same problems by killing herself. Why would we, as a society, counsel her against doing so?

Valid question.

 

[Greg Jennings]

It's not, but it is common when certain members get cornered they resort to false comparison fallacies in a desperate attempt to make their argument relevant.

Hot button topic, eh? Sheesh

 

[Huckleberry]

There was no category for only rape victims in your chart. Therefore it isn't taking into account the differences between abortions performed on women who consented to sex and understood the consequences bs those that had it thrust upon them in a horrifying ordeal.

http://afterabortion.org/2012/abortion-doesnt-help-rape-victims-say-women-whove-been-there/

I think those who want to force a woman against her will to bring a baby into the world that was the product of her being brutally raped and emotionally traumatized, and who may not have the means to care for the baby once it's born, need to rethink some things

See the link above and note the high number of rape and sexual assault victims who report being pressured by friend, family and even the perpetrator themselves to abort. Note that 80% of them later reported feeling it was the wrong thing to do. And note that none of those who elected to carry the pregnancy to term reported regret or wish they had aborted.

So whose side are you on again? Who are you speaking for?

 

[Quetzal]

She could avoid the same problems by killing herself. Why would we, as a society, counsel her against doing so?

Has anyone suggested that someone contemplating abortion be withheld from counseling? I didn't see anyone say that.

 

[glassjester]

That isn't what you asked. You asked why the comment regarding when a fetus becomes a person is important.

Sort of.

I asked why your stage of life determines your right to life.

Not whether it does (I know it does). Why does it?

 

[Greg Jennings]

Oh. So that would explain why killing an unborn baby would be a tragedy ... because you don't REALLLLY believe it's a baby.

I said the science is unclear. It's a tragedy because it might be a baby. A word twister aren't you?

 

[Quetzal]

Hot button topic, eh? Sheesh

Very. Understandably so, but do not expect to change any minds on this one.

 

[Greg Jennings]

http://afterabortion.org/2012/abortion-doesnt-help-rape-victims-say-women-whove-been-there/

See the link above and note the high number of rape and sexual assault victims who report being pressured by friend, family and even the perpetrator themselves to abort. Note that 80% of them later reported feeling it was the wrong thing to do. And note that none of those who elected to carry the pregnancy to term reported regret or wish they had aborted.

So whose side are you on again? Who are you speaking for?

I'm simply saying that the rape victim has the final say. You're free to counsel her as you like, but in the end you shouldn't be able to force her to do anything

 

[Quetzal]

Sort of.

I asked why your stage of life determines your right to life.

Not whether it does (I know it does). Why does it?

You are making an assumption when you are stating that a fetus is capable of life in and within itself. Science disagrees with you and that dictates the current legislation.

 

[Rusha]

You can't force somebody to live without literally constant supervision.

In that case, there should be clinics where they are aided in utilizing that *choice*?

If they want to kill themselves then they'll find a way. All you can do is talk to them and try and convince them not to make that choice to end their life,

Wrong. You could call 911 and tell them a person is threatening to kill themselves.

just as all you can do is talk to an impregnated rape victim and try to convince them to have the baby

I would do that because I realize that ALL unborn babies deserve life. You, OTOH, apparently see the child of a rape victim as an intruder who is not worthy of protection.

 

[glassjester]

You are making an assumption when you are stating that a fetus is capable of life in and within itself. Science disagrees with you and that dictates the current legislation.

Is dependence on others a good measure for determining your right to live?

What about newborns? Elderly people? Disabled people?

 

[Huckleberry]

This is related, how? But I'll humor you

You can't force somebody to live without literally constant supervision. If they want to kill themselves then they'll find a way. All you can do is talk to them and try and convince them not to make that choice to end their life, just as all you can do is talk to an impregnated rape victim and try to convince them to have the baby

You know, right here you show you have no interest in the truth and arguing just to hear yourself jabber. Because no, we don't just talk to suicidal people. We institutionalize them against their will, treat them against their will and don't release them until they're no longer suicidal.

You know...forcing them to live.

And if we can force suicidal people to live we can certainly force people not to murder their babies because some blockhead like you told them the lie that that's what they should do, that's what will make them feel better, that's (perhaps most insanely) is what's best for the baby.

I'm simply saying that the rape victim has the final say. You're free to counsel her as you like, but in the end you shouldn't be able to force her to do anything

Why?

I've yet to hear you explain why exactly without your every argument being destroyed. Nor answer the insane contradiction that you can both champion abortion and cheer people who manage to survive it. Again, whose side are you on?

 

[Quetzal]

Is dependence on others a good measure for determining your right to live?

What about newborns? Elderly people? Disabled people?

They are not the same thing. Those people are seen (legally and socially) as an individual being. A fetus is not.

 

[glassjester]

I'm simply saying that the rape victim has the final say. You're free to counsel her as you like, but in the end you shouldn't be able to force her to do anything

And "in the end" the law should not declare that the victim "has a right" to suicide.

Might she do it anyway? Unfortunately, yes.
Should we encourage it by saying it's "her choice" and "her right" ? No.

 

[glassjester]

They are not the same thing. Those people are seen (legally and socially) as an individual being. A fetus is not.

Why?

 

[Rusha]

I said the science is unclear. It's a tragedy because it might be a baby. A word twister aren't you?

That *might* should give you enough pause to err on the side of caution.

That *might* means you agree that what is being torn to shreds is very possibly a child.

IF you were driving your car at night and saw something big enough in the middle of the road to be a child ... but it *might* not be, would you stop and check or just plow on over "it"?