Quetzal
New member
This is an entirely different topic. Stay with me and get back on track please. Otherwise the discussion is over.
Are pro-lifers who say No exception 4 rape/incest.. extremists?
- Thread starter republicanchick
- Start date
glassjester
Well-known member
In what way, objectively, is the human fetus not a distinct human organism?
Quetzal
New member
Ooo a bait'n switch, loaded question combo! I like these.
glassjester
Well-known member
It's a comparable situation.
Quetzal
New member
Life is a self-sustaining biological process. Up until a certain a point, a fetus does not fit into that category.
glassjester
Well-known member
I thought dependency on others did not determine your right to live? The elderly, disabled, newborns, right?
Besides, "self-sustaining" is hardly an objective measure. None of us is absolutely self-sustaining. Some people, due to any number of possible congenital conditions, never become self-sustaining.
Greg Jennings
New member
Or you could counsel them, as in the case with abortion. I noticed you never apologized for claiming that I didn't allow counsel to rape victims who were impregnated. Interesting
And when the person goes home from the police station after telling them they're fine, then immediately goes to the kitchen to cut their wrists, the problem is somehow solved by that 911 call? Didn't think so.
And I recognize that you shouldn't force your will onto a young, scared, mentally shattered woman because you claim to know what's best for somebody else. I guess we're both monsters, aren't we?
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glassjester
Well-known member
And offer suicide as an option?
Quetzal
New member
I actually disagreed with you on the very same grounds I presented above.
Of course it is. You are either capable of life or you aren't.
It's not a bait and switch, but rather an attempt to seek clarification for his position.
IF he wishes to argue that unborn babies are of no value, than there is no reason to keep stating abortion is a tragedy.
Also, making exceptions for rape is not a consistent prolife/anti-abortion position.
Quetzal
New member
See what I mean, Greg? Now that the faulty comparison has been suggested it is almost impossible for them to carry on their positions without it.
Post abortion syndrome is a myth . There is no such thing . In fact, the vast majority of women recover soon from their abortions and are able to lead normal lives - and they often have more children later .
For the government to say to every pregnant woman - "You must give birth or else no matter what the adverse circumstances you are in"
is a guarantee of disaster for society .
Poor pregnant women will merely go to dangerous back-alley abortionists as they so often did before Roe v Wade and risk their lives and health . The poorest will simply try to abort themselves with coat hangers and other dangerous makeshift devices . Yes, coat hangers
are NOT a myth .
Roe v Wade was not the beginning of abortion in America - it was the end of women DYING from abortions . We know that thousands of women used to die in America every year from botched illegal abortions - since Roe , only a tiny handful have died from LEGAL abortions .
Others nearly died and caused permanent physical harm to themselves . Every year in poor countries around the world where abortion is legal, thousands of poor women die, often in agony, from botched illegal abortions , and they leave so many children motherless . America cannot afford to return to barbarous conditions like this .
Most of these women are not careless , irresponsible young women , but desperately poor married ones who cannot afford to have more children and if they did give birth those children would STARVE .
For the government to say to every pregnant woman - "You must give birth or else no matter what the adverse circumstances you are in"
is a guarantee of disaster for society .
Poor pregnant women will merely go to dangerous back-alley abortionists as they so often did before Roe v Wade and risk their lives and health . The poorest will simply try to abort themselves with coat hangers and other dangerous makeshift devices . Yes, coat hangers
are NOT a myth .
Roe v Wade was not the beginning of abortion in America - it was the end of women DYING from abortions . We know that thousands of women used to die in America every year from botched illegal abortions - since Roe , only a tiny handful have died from LEGAL abortions .
Others nearly died and caused permanent physical harm to themselves . Every year in poor countries around the world where abortion is legal, thousands of poor women die, often in agony, from botched illegal abortions , and they leave so many children motherless . America cannot afford to return to barbarous conditions like this .
Most of these women are not careless , irresponsible young women , but desperately poor married ones who cannot afford to have more children and if they did give birth those children would STARVE .
glassjester
Well-known member
Were newborns in ancient Greece "capable of life" when they were left to die of exposure?
Quetzal
New member
When they were born, were they able to live by themselves for a period of time due to being fully developed? If so, they are capable of life and, thus, a person.
glassjester
Well-known member
Well why isn't suicide an option? It's her body.
Why do you want to "force her" to stay alive?
Quetzal
New member
This is a very hot topic, so hot, in fact, it could warrant it's own thread. If you would like to start one, I will participate.
glassjester
Well-known member
What's "a period" of time?
Is it however long you decide?
How long can a newborn survive without any other people? How about a premature baby? How about a fetus? How long could you or I survive without any other people around?
Seems arbitrary. Not objective.
Quetzal
New member
It only seems that way because you are purposefully attempting to complicate what is a very simple concept. When a baby is born, it is alive. It is a self-sustaining organism outside of basic needs we all universally need (food, water, etc).
glassjester
Well-known member
So how long does a human organism need to be able to survive without any other people in order for you to consider it a person?
Do you think it's alright to kill premature babies? Are they not people?
Quetzal
New member
I am going to stop trying to explain this to you because it is perfectly clear you are not interested in what I have to offer.
Premature babies are not the same as a fetus.