ARCHIVE: The reality of "Hell"

[o2bwise]

Hi AV,

Total nonsense. Justice has nothing to take away from God's love. Justice is satisfied of the guilty parties own accord. God merely provided the options.

So...

If one "merely" provides "the options," one must therefore be love?

What you consider the options that God provides, are unjust and are unlovely.

I want to be on record in stating that I believe the position I hold is biblical. To reason the unloveliness of a theologically incorrect position is not unfair ground to tread. Nor is it unfair to reason the loveliness of one's own position, especially as it is grounded in scripture.

The doctrine of eternal conscious torment is:
1. Unbiblical
2. Unjust
3. Unlovely

Or to put another way:
1. satanic deception
2. Unfair
3. Hateful

In His Love,

Tony (o2)

 

[agape]

geralduk

I guess what I posted is either being quickly scanned or totally misread. No one seems to be getting the point I'm making and so I get responses harping on scripture that has nothing to do with my question.

Will someone please get it straight.

God is Love,

He will not allow ETERNAL TORTURE.

Besides the truth that He love, the Scriptures teach there will be NO ETERNAL TORTURE because they will be DESTROYED.

 

[cirisme]

No one seems to be getting the point I'm making

I get it alright... you're just wrong.

God is Love,

He will not allow ETERNAL TORTURE.

This is opinion, not fact. Scripture PLEASE.

 

[cirisme]

Does it say that the second death is referring to "dead in our sins?" You said it so you prove it with scripture.

Really nice straw man, agape. That's NOT what I said.

 

[geralduk]

Originally posted by agape
geralduk

I guess what I posted is either being quickly scanned or totally misread. No one seems to be getting the point I'm making and so I get responses harping on scripture that has nothing to do with my question.

Will someone please get it straight.

God is Love,

He will not allow ETERNAL TORTURE.

Besides the truth that He love, the Scriptures teach there will be NO ETERNAL TORTURE because they will be DESTROYED.

perhaps its becasue your very phrase is wrong to start with?

The scripture uses the word TORMENT.

That is NOT TORTURE.

TORMENT is a selfinduced thing.
Torture is a cruel, pain inflicting act to a certain end or for its own enjoyment.

The souls in torment in Hell is not God torturing them.
They are only in the place if that si the word,that is left for them and which all there lives they have always wanted.
Away from God!
The 'torment' is from knowing how big a mistake you have made and it cannot be rectified for ever!

As for your contention that there is NO such place.
You base it on your own reasoning and not on the Word of God.
Wether you or I like it or not It is a real and certain place.
Men take a false comfort from the lies of the devil or they seek to give a false hope in that you cAN BE PURGED BY THOSE FLAMES but they twist the scriptures to thier own destruction.
Destruction is RUIN.
Where soemthing is so RUINED that it is unrepareable AND INCAPABLE to function or be what it was designed to be.

 

[cirisme]

Thanks, geralduk, that's what I've been trying to say all along.

 

[cirisme]

Bumpity.. bump bump.

 

[AVmetro]

 

[agape]

Originally posted by geralduk
perhaps its becasue your very phrase is wrong to start with?

The scripture uses the word TORMENT.

That is NOT TORTURE.

The Greek word for "torment" is "basanos," which means,

1) a touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to
test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the
streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal
2) the rack or instrument of torture by which one is forced
to divulge the truth
3) torture, torment, acute pains
3a) of the pains of a disease
3b) of those in hell after death

The souls in torment in Hell is not God torturing them.
They are only in the place if that si the word,that is left for them and which all there lives they have always wanted.
Away from God!

If it is God who allows their torture or torment to go on for all eternity as His so-called punishment, then it is ultimately God who is torturing them.

The 'torment' is from knowing how big a mistake you havemade and it cannot be rectified for ever!

Chapter and verse please.

As for your contention that there is NO such place.
You base it on your own reasoning and not on the Word of God.

Yeah right...like all those scriptures I posted which clearly show all will be "DESTROYED." Please go study the scriptures more thoroughly and more accurately. All you are giving me is your own personalized scriptures.

 

[agape]

Originally posted by cirisme
Really nice straw man, agape. That's NOT what I said.

That's exactly what you said. Go re-read your own post please. You said--"So, are we literally dead, or are we dead in our sins?"

By the way, I'm still waiting for proof text that tells us those who will die the second death will be in torment, torture for all eternity.

 

[AVmetro]

Agape...

Agape...

If it is God who allows their torture or torment to go on for all eternity as His so-called punishment, then it is ultimately God who is torturing them.

It is ultimately God who is punishing them...

I am going to ask one more time concerning punishment under Mosaic Law......is it "fair" is it "torture"....The ONLY difference is the length of time.

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Rev20:10

This is justice..not "torture".....

Agape, I understand you're situation, but it is not biblical. You are clearly attributing the wrong principles behind the situation here.


God bless,
Jeremiah L.G.

 

[agape]

Originally posted by cirisme

This is opinion, not fact. Scripture PLEASE.

God is Love is the truth...not an opinion as you seem to only give. Also, they will be utterly destroyed is the truth of God's Word...NOT...eternal torment which is another one of your "opinions."

Still waiting for proof text to show that the second death means torment for all eternity.

 

[agape]

Originally posted by geralduk
Heaven would be HELL and a torment for the wicked!
Just a thought.
The judgemnt of the wicked is ALSO out of LOVE.
HELL IS reserved FOR THE DEVIL and all his angels or messengers.

Etc., etc., etc., A lot of words, but nothing that proves the second death means eternal conscious torment.

 

[cirisme]

Being cut off from God IS total destruction...

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power -2 Thess. 1:8,9

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. -Jude 7

Let me repeat it, seperation from God is destruction. Complete destruction.

 

[agape]

Originally posted by cirisme
Being cut off from God IS total destruction...



Let me repeat it, seperation from God is destruction. Complete destruction.

I agree, being totally destroyed in the lake of fire is being cut off from God forever. I'm glad you finally caught on.

 

[AVmetro]

nip it, niP iT NIP IT!!!!!!!!

nip it, niP iT NIP IT!!!!!!!!

Whoa! Calm down little smiley dude..ok..ok..I'll nip it..

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Rev20:10

OK, Just to let you people know in advance, I AM baiting here...

 

[cirisme]

I agree, being totally destroyed in the lake of fire is being cut off from God forever. I'm glad you finally caught on.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... that's what I've been saying all along. It is you who finally caught on.

 

[cirisme]

Hey, I just realized that we can't have a discussion where we're not arguing, agape! Now, what should we argue about!?!

 

[agape]

Originally posted by cirisme


Whoa, whoa, whoa.... that's what I've been saying all along. It is you who finally caught on.

So you are saying that when the evildoers who rejected God and His Son, Jesus Christ are thrown into the lake of fire they are totally destroyed...forever dead...no consciousness at all..no life or existence whatsoever...right?

 

[cirisme]

No, they are completely cut off from life itself.. God. Thus, "destroyed."