ARCHIVE: The reality of "Hell"

AVmetro

AVmetro

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Banned
Perhaps you'd care to elaborate:

(1 John 2:2) "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." This passage is also featured in my denomination's liturgy.

How is the "whole world" part wrong?
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The world's sin was removed by Christ's death. He trapped them "in" death. Then "loopholed" by rising again. Everyone's sins are "removed", but ONLY if you are IN Christ. Otherwise you are still "outside" the forgiveness. You can only escape sin by escaping the punishment for sin. The only way to do that is through him that escaped death.

Sorta sorta kinda off but you get the picture....;) .
 
D

Dude-eronomy

New member
Originally posted by AVmetro
Sorta sorta kinda off but you get the picture....;) .
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Not entirely, but bear with me. Is your point that the "whole world" is elligible, but only those who choose to be "in Christ" will receive forgiveness?
 
AVmetro

AVmetro

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Dude..

Dude..

quote:
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Originally posted by AVmetro
Sorta sorta kinda off but you get the picture.... .
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Not entirely, but bear with me. Is your point that the "whole world" is elligible, but only those who choose to be "in Christ" will receive forgiveness?
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2Peter3:9 "He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Precisely. The entire world is capable of being saved. You must be "in" Christ however in order to be atoned for. Sin demands, according to God's nature, to be punished. If you are "outside" of the atonement for that sin, then you are left behind in 'justice land'. Christ satisfied the punishment part FOR you. And ONLY he could do that. You can't. Therefore you must be IN Christ, to be atoned for and therefore forgiven. ;)

Kinda hard to explain, but you may get the picture....

God bless,
Jeremiah L.G.
 
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Dude-eronomy

New member
Re: Dude..

Re: Dude..

Originally posted by AVmetro

Kinda hard to explain, but you may get the picture....

God bless,
Jeremiah L.G.
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I think I do understand you AV, but I can't go there. As all men fell in Adam, so all men rise in Christ. If God is Love without condition, I can't see how anyone could fall outside of it.

I do not submit this as proof, but subjectively, this section of St. Patrick's Breastplate informs my opinion:

Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down,
Christ when I arise,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of every one who speaks of me,
Christ in every eye that sees me,
Christ in every ear that hears me.

--Mark
 
agape

agape

New member
AV,

>>>..Minds, such as yours, who find it difficult to think independently.

An intelligent mind thinks independently instead of being blindly led by the nose to a false belief such as hell is a continuous state of torture. It just as illogical as the trinity theory.

What purpose does it serve an all loving and all good God, to have those who refused His love and goodness and have denied themselves eternal life in His presence, to suffer for all eternity.? What is there to be gained by anyone?

As Mr. Spock would say: "Illogical," Jim. :D

Btw, you are correct; I never did tell you if I was a "boy" or "girl". ;)
 
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sojouner

New member
admiral-D
<<What is hell? >>
First question to ask is What language does hell come from?
it is old german .

the 2nd Q? to ask is What does/did it mean in that language ?
it means to cover . We use it today in English in the word helmet
which means head cover !!

Also in britian somewhere they put there potatoes in "hell" to preseve them over the winter.

Next question to ask is

What are the words in the original biblical languages that are translated "hell"?

First one is from Hebrew O.T (SHEOL) and means grave or pit.

The rest as far as I'm aware come from Greek (N.t)
Hades which basically means the same as Sheol.

Tartaros which means deep abyss (cavern , chasm) and
Gehenna which is a place outside of Jerusalem where in the time of Jesus was the rubbish tip where they burnt the cities rubbish.

Incidentally it was also the place where in the time of Ahab the King in Jerusalem (Hezekiahs father ) the god moloch was worshiped with human sacrifice (babies and young children).

Where Jesus talks about being cast into "hell fire" he is talking about throwning into the rubbish dump the unrighteous that are judged to be worthless at his second comming they are not even worth giving a decent burial too .

Tartaros is used only once in scripture 2 peter 2vs4 and is a reference back to numbers 16 where Korah dathan and abiram rebeled against God and were cast into the great abyss reserved there for Judgement later on.
5020 tartaroo tar-tar-o’-o

from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hell); ; v

AV-cast down to hell 1; 1

1) the name of the subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to Gehenna of the Jews
2) to thrust down to Tartarus, to hold captive in Tartarus

Just a few thoughts on hell for people to cogitate (I like this word) on .:)
 
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sojouner

New member
cirisme
Adam is our ancestor, Jesus is not.
But Jesus was a descendant of Adam therefore knows what it is to suffer the affliction of the temptation of sin so we have a faithful high priest who knows the feeling of our infirmities and can then stand in the breach made by our sins .

Gods desire is for all men to come unto him but he knows that they won't and thats their choice (freedom of choice and all that)
He made us free will beings .
Would you be happy with a Husband or wife who had no choice to love you ? Or would you be Happier with someone who Chose to love you of their own free will ?
How do you think it makes God feel when you Choose to Love him and his Ways ?
If you don't there are consequences
if you do there are consequences (you reap what you sow)

chew the cud on this lot:D
 
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sojouner

New member
Evangelion
Thanks Evan
I know that you are a Chrissie ( No dissing intended ) I have quite a few Chrissie friends and ex-chrissies that are friends so I do have very simmilar beliefs to you .In fact my pastor was highly blessed during his time of training in the Christadephians before the Lord called him out of that branch of his family.
You might like to check out my site @
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sojouner
look under doctrines for what we believe .
there are 3 thesises (??) on the trinity the devil and immortal soulism . They are pretty heavy going so be warned :D

Would be interested in your comments!!
 
Evangelion

Evangelion

New member
Sojourner -

Thanks Evan
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You're welcome. :)

I know that you are a Chrissie ( No dissing intended )
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None taken. I know you're just being friendly. :up:

I have quite a few Chrissie friends and ex-chrissies that are friends so I do have very simmilar beliefs to you .In fact my pastor was highly blessed during his time of training in the Christadephians before the Lord called him out of that branch of his family.
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Thanks. :)

You might like to check out my site @
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sojouner
look under doctrines for what we believe .
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Yes, I've already gone through some of it. Very interesting.

there are 3 thesises (??)
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Theses.

on the trinity the devil and immortal soulism . They are pretty heavy going so be warned
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I'll do my best! :eek:

Would be interested in your comments!!
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No worries. You'll receive them in due time. :)
 
C

cirisme

Guest
Sojourner,
Gods desire is for all men to come unto him but he knows that they won't and thats their choice (freedom of choice and all that)
He made us free will beings .
Would you be happy with a Husband or wife who had no choice to love you ? Or would you be Happier with someone who Chose to love you of their own free will ?
How do you think it makes God feel when you Choose to Love him and his Ways ?
If you don't there are consequences
if you do there are consequences (you reap what you sow)
Click to expand...

I agree. :)

But Jesus was a descendant of Adam therefore knows what it is to suffer the affliction of the temptation of sin so we have a faithful high priest who knows the feeling of our infirmities and can then stand in the breach made by our sins .
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I agree again. Dude-e was saying that all men fall with Adam, and all men rise with Jesus, but I pointed out that Adam is our ancestor(from which we inherit our sinful nature) and Jesus isn't.

Also in britian somewhere they put there potatoes in "hell" to preseve them over the winter.
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Interesting. I believe there's a city in the northern US named "Hell." A friend told me every year the weather channel really announces it when it snows there, they say, "Hell has frozen over!" :D

Agape,

What purpose does it serve an all loving and all good God, to have those who refused His love and goodness and have denied themselves eternal life in His presence, to suffer for all eternity.? What is there to be gained by anyone?
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To have the very thing he wants most, love. I would like to see some scripture that stands up to scrutiny that supports your position.
 
Evangelion

Evangelion

New member
Tell you what, though - there is one place in the South that I'd really love to see, and that's New Orleans.

I have a strange fascination with Cajun culture.

:)
 
agape

agape

New member
Originally posted by cirisme
Agape,

>>>What purpose does it serve an all loving and all good God, to have those who refused His love and goodness and have denied themselves eternal life in His presence, to suffer for all eternity.? What is there to be gained by anyone?

cirisme>>To have the very thing he wants most, love. I would like to see some scripture that stands up to scrutiny that supports your position.
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So you are saying that God's purpose in allowing eternal torture is so He could have love?!! And this makes sense to you? Is this how God wants to be love? Actually, the entire Word supports my statement. God IS LOVE...God IS LIGHT, AND IN HIM IS NO DARKNESS AT ALL. The reason God would not allow eternal torture is because He loves even His enemies. God can only give that which He is: Love and Light.

As I have already posted and as the Scriptures state:

God clearly says in Romans 6:23 that "that wages of sin is DEATH.

The Bible plainly teaches that flesh and blood is subject to combustion and death (Hebrews 9:27; Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 3:20). Malachi 4:3 says that in the end the ASHES of the wicked will be under the feet of the righteous. The wicked will be destroyed and will die that death, the second death, from which there will never be a resurrection (Revelation 20:6, 14).

IMHO--anyone who believes God would allow those who rejected Him and His Son Jesus Christ, to endure such horrendous suffering for all eternity, neither knows nor understands the love and heart of God.
 
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