ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.

[Inu Yasha]

The premise is Fred is a Christian.

Oh wait... let me guess... the Christian part of Fred didn't steal the iPod, it was the fleshy part of Fred that did it, right? :rotfl:

Even if that is your argument Fred still sinned! (even if only the fleshy part did).

I don't see how what Lighthouse has ever said is in contradiction to this.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I don't see how what Lighthouse has ever said is in contradiction to this.

It's not. That's why Lighthouse is wrong to use the sweeping assertion that Christians CANNOT sin.

 

[Inu Yasha]

If it is not the Christian in Fred who sinned, then how is Lighthouse wrong? The flesh is not Christian, is it? It is not in Christ, is it?

 

[elected4ever]

Knight, would you answer my question in post 226?

 

[elected4ever]

If it is not the Christian in Fred who sinned, then how is Lighthouse wrong? The flesh is not Christian, is it? It is not in Christ, is it?

precisely the point Inu Yasha!

 

[elected4ever]

Please learn what "do not be decieved" means (1 Cor 6:9-11).

I'm not deceived and I know what deception is. You are deceived and practice that deception all the time. You are just mad that I know you for who you really are. Christ has no part in you and does not know you.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

If all things are lawful then what is sin?

Doing something wrong.

The word sin can be specific or general. The word sin can be both a noun or a verb.

The apostle Paul knew how to use the word sin you should learn from him.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Knight, would you answer my question in post 226?

:up: See above.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

If it is not the Christian in Fred who sinned, then how is Lighthouse wrong? The flesh is not Christian, is it? It is not in Christ, is it?

Fred is Fred.

Fred may have two natures but as Lighthouse rightly pointed out...
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.

 

[elected4ever]

:up: See above.

All you have said is that a christian can violate human law. No disagreement there but that is not what I ask and you are trying to sidestep the question. If all things are legal to me then what is sin?

 

[elected4ever]

Fred is Fred.

Fred may have two natures but as Lighthouse rightly pointed out...
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.

If Fred was born again he did not sin but he will go to jail.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

If all things are legal to me then what is sin?

I already answered.

The word sin can be used in various ways... transgressing the law, missing the mark, committing acts of evil or just doing things that are wrong.

You, Lighthouse, and Sozo fail to recognize the wide range of uses for the word sin. Because of your own failure to recognize the wide range of the word sin you have drawn yourself into a corner of confusion. Getting out of the corner is as easy as admitting... "Ok, I see... I guess the word sin is used in the Bible in a more broad way than I originally thought."

 

[Poly]

All you have said is that a christian can violate human law. No disagreement there but that is not what I ask and you are trying to sidestep the question. If all things are legal to me then what is sin?

If all things are legal then what is sin?

Doing something wrong.

This is side stepping the issue?

Just because all things are lawful for a Christian does not mean that sin doesn't exist. It is legal (though not profitable) for you to sin without it being held against you because of grace.

If Fred was born again he did not sin but he will go to jail.

Lighthouse seems to disagree with you.

However, it was Fred who sinned.

Fred sinned. It was legal for Fred to do so because Fred no longer has any kind of sin account held against him. Though Fred sinned, God will judge Fred righteous as if Fred never did anything wrong.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

If Fred was born again he did not sin but he will go to jail.

What did Fred do? Do you have a general term for it?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Fred sinned. It was legal for Fred to do so because Fred no longer has any kind of sin account held against him. Though Fred sinned, God will judge Fred righteous as if Fred never did anything wrong.

:up:

 

[Sozo]

Yeah... who are you Sozo's evil twin brother?

:chuckle: He is the one in the flesh.

 

[Sozo]

The person! Regardless of which nature is responsible, the person does the sinful thing.

I don't mind conceding that the flesh is what makes us sin (after all that is my position as well). But we are who we are! (Proverbs 23:7)

Imagine a man who is a Christian. Lets call him Fred. Fred is a Christian and he is in a department store with 4 other customers Bill, John, Peter, and Ted.

Fred grabs an iPod off the shelf and slips it into his pocket and he intentionally leaves the store without paying for it.

Out of the five men in the store, which one sinned?
A. Fred
B. Bill
C. Peter
D. Ted
E. None of the above.

E.

Of course, I don't know anything about Bill, Peter, John, and Ted. I don't know what they were doing. Were any of them holding hands?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

E.

Of course, I don't know anything about Bill, Peter, John, and Ted. I don't know what they were doing. Were any of them holding hands?

So then what did Fred do? Do you have a name for it? Do you have a general term for things that would be sin if not for the fact that a person is a Christian?

 

[elected4ever]

I already answered.

The word sin can be used in various ways... transgressing the law, missing the mark, committing acts of evil or just doing things that are wrong.

.

1. transgressing the law ------ God's law is dead to us and we to it. How can we violate what does not exist for us.

2. missing the mark, ------------Who's mark, man's or God's or our own. Sin is the contradiction of God. If we are no loner in contradiction but in Christ and God is it that God has become a contradiction to Himself.

3. committing acts of evil -------Are you saying that the righteous can do evil. If so, by whoes standard. We do as our righteous nature allows.

4. just doing things that are wrong --------- How are those who that are righteous do that which is wrong. If the righteous do wrong then the righteous would no longer be right and therefore not righteous.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

.

1. transgressing the law ------ God's law is dead to us and we to it. How can we violate what does not exist for us.

We can't.

2. missing the mark, ------------Who's mark, man's or God's or our own. Sin is the contradiction of God. If we are no loner in contradiction but in Christ and God is it that God has become a contradiction to Himself.

You have already admitted that we can act out our fleshy desires. Therefore the fleshy part of us can miss the mark.

3. committing acts of evil -------Are you saying that the righteous can do evil. If so, by whoes standard. We do as our righteous nature allows.

Are you suggesting that it's impossible for a Christian to do something evil? (by God's standard)

4. just doing things that are wrong --------- How are those who that are righteous do that which is wrong. If the righteous do wrong then the righteous would no longer be right and therefore not righteous.

You are 100% wrong. The righteous stay righteous even in the face of sin because Christ COVERS our sin. It isn't that we can't do wrong, it's that we are no longer held accountable for doing wrong.

Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”