ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.

[Nathon Detroit]

Is it working for you?

I have never really debated him on it.

But if I ever do, I will stick with a biblically accurate usage of the word sin.

 

[Sozo]

No disagreement here. Yet Fred still has the capability of stealing the iPod, and we use the verb sin to describe that type of behavior.

Fred is giving into the flesh, by stealing the iPod. Fred is sinning, thankfully Fred's sin will be covered!

Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

I know I addressed this, but that verse is David's hope. Just as Paul also describes how Abraham was accounted righteousness.

In Christ, we have much more. Sins are not covered, but taken away.

We are not accounted righteous, but made righteous.

We have His Life, they only had a promise.

 

[godrulz]

In that instance, I would call it stealing.

Under the Law, stealing is a sin.

In America, stealing is a crime.

In the Body of Christ, stealing is unprofitable behavior, and God does not want us to do those things that He judges the world for.

Rationalistic euphemisms do not change God's holy standards for believers and unbelievers. Neither are commended for lawlessness/sin.

 

[Sozo]

Rationalistic euphemisms do not change God's holy standards for believers and unbelievers. Neither are commended for lawlessness/sin.

Heretic.

I bet you never thought you'd hear Beaver say that!

 

[godrulz]

Why not? Why can't we use words the way they are commonly understood?

If using the word sin the way Paul used it is a crime, then I guess I am a criminal.

The extent people go to in order to retain a wrong preconceived theology. Some people's kids!

Don't back down, Knight. You are right on this one.

As an aside, it was the fleshly Corinthians who were saying that all things are lawful, not Paul. Some versions rightly have this in quotes, with Paul's inspired correction of their error. This is seen several times in the book (issue literature) where the Corinthians make a wrong statement and then Paul corrects it with truth and perspective.

 

[Sozo]

The extent people go to in order to retain a wrong preconceived theology. Some people's kids!

You're heart is far from God.

Don't back down, Knight. You are right on this one.

No, he's not. (You do know that he disagrees with you too, right?) Perhaps you don't care, as long as he can put people under a bit of slavery, you'll be happy. You are sounding more and more like a Satan worshipper everyday.

As an aside, it was the fleshly Corinthians who were saying that all things are lawful, not Paul. Some versions rightly have this in quotes, with Paul's inspired correction of their error. This is seen several times in the book (issue literature) where the Corinthians make a wrong statement and then Paul corrects it with truth and perspective.

There you go Knight, Paul was just quoting something stupid that the Corinthian's said about Christians sinning.

 

[elected4ever]

No disagreement here. Yet Fred still has the capability of stealing the iPod, and we use the verb sin to describe that type of behavior.

Total :spam: you are ducking the issue. You just change the meaning to fit your misconception of what you are in Christ. I have not received the authority to change the meaning. What makes you think that you do? Have you changed the meaning for control purposes? Is that why you emphasize sin instead of life? So people will do what you wont them to do and fear you? Are you afraid that people will not do as you demand? How far does your political correctness go Knight?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

In Christ, we have much more. Sins are not covered, but taken away.

Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

:idunno:

Paul or Sozo?
Paul or Sozo???

:idunno:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Total :spam: you are ducking the issue. You just change the meaning to fit your misconception of what you are in Christ. I have not received the authority to change the meaning. What makes you think that you do? Have you changed the meaning for control purposes? Is that why you emphasize sin instead of life? So people will do what you wont them to do and fear you? Are you afraid that people will not do as you demand? How far does your political correctness go Knight?

e4e, you are more dramatic than my 14 year old daughter. :chuckle:

Bang your head all you like, you will never convince me that the apostle Paul misused the word sin.

 

[Sozo]

Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

:idunno:

Paul or Sozo?
Paul or Sozo???

:idunno:

I'm not disagreeing with Paul. Paul is quoting David. I believe Paul's proclamation about the power of the gospel, over David's understanding of atonement.

Please don't say that I disagree with Paul, becuase you know that is not true.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Don't back down, Knight. You are right on this one.

Me? Back down? :ha:

I already have one concession from Lighthouse so 1/3 of the job is complete.

 

[Sozo]

I already have one concession from Lighthouse so 1/3 of the job is complete.

I seriously doubt that.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I'm not disagreeing with Paul. Paul is quoting David. I believe Paul's proclamation about the power of the gospel, over David's understanding of atonement.

Please don't say that I disagree with Paul, becuase you know that is not true.

Sozo, you are indeed contradicting the clear words of Paul (like it or not). Paul didn't have your strict, unnecessarily narrow usage of the word sin and you shouldn't either.

"Sins are not covered" - Sozo
"sins are covered" - Paul

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I seriously doubt that.

No?

it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned. - Lighthouse

 

[Sozo]

Sozo, you are indeed contradicting the clear words of Paul (like it or not). Paul didn't have your strict, unnecessarily narrow usage of the word sin and you shouldn't either.

"Sins are not covered" - Sozo
"sins are covered" - Paul

Now you're either being dishonest, or you're being a jerk.

Paul NEVER said that our sins are covered. Paul is quoting David for the very reasons I said.

 

[elected4ever]

Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

:idunno:

Paul or Sozo?
Paul or Sozo???

:idunno:

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 ¶And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

:idunno:

Paul or Knight?
Paul or Knight???

:idunno:

 

[Sozo]

No?



it was Fred who sinned. - Lighthouse[/I]

I know what Lighthouse was saying, and I think you hear what you want.

 

[Poly]

I know what Lighthouse was saying, and I think you hear what you want.

But he's only going by exactly and T totally what Lighthouse said. He doesn't have to misconstrue his words, add to them or anything. He can simply read precisely what Lighthouse said and it totally lines up and agrees with what Knight's been saying all along.

 

[Sozo]

Lighthouse does not believe that Christians can sin. When he was referring to Fred sinning, he was referring to his flesh, not who he is in Christ.

 

[Poly]

Sozo, has there ever been a time when one who believed in Christ could sin or has it always been that a follower of Christ cannot sin?