ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.

[Nathon Detroit]

The concession is that the flesh sins. But a Christian is not in the flesh, so it still stands that Christian do not/cannot sin.

Which of course proves this entire debate is nothing more than a semantical game.

No-pay off. It's a platitude.

 

[Lighthouse]

Your interpretation and understanding of this analogy is flawed. This makes you wrong. It does not make Paul or Knight a liar.

We must interpret this passage in light of other passages that explicitly make the person, not a personification or metaphor responsible for sin. Until you see that obedience/disobedience/rebellion/selfishness/lawlessness/SIN involves will/volition, you will continue to be confused by your metaphysical sin as substance theories. We have one will, not two competing wills as people in the image of God, recreated in the image of Christ. Paul is clear that our one will yields to bodily desires (flesh) or to the things of the Spirit (spirit) Rom. 6-8; Galatians). The will, not a nebulous 'flesh' thing, is causative for choices (hence why the person is responsible and cannot blame Adam, Satan, or the so-called flesh).

I thought you were staying out of this one.

 

[Lighthouse]

A Christian's standing with God is righteous but they often do unrighteous things.

Do you disagree with that?

Who does the unrighteous thing, the new creation, or the old nature?

 

[Lighthouse]

Which of course proves this entire debate is nothing more than a semantical game.

No-pay off. It's a platitude.

Do you disagree with what I said?

 

[Lighthouse]

Romans 6 is written to alert us to the fact that we are no longer slaves to sin, and to warn us not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies. Paul is saying that we should not allow our old nature to sin [wilfully]. He is saying we should work to control it. Of course, we all know that we must have Christ's help to do this. And also, if we understand that we are not slaves to sin, then it is easier to avoid sin in the flesh, even more.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Who does the unrighteous thing, the new creation, or the old nature?

The person! Regardless of which nature is responsible, the person does the sinful thing.

I don't mind conceding that the flesh is what makes us sin (after all that is my position as well). But we are who we are! (Proverbs 23:7)

Imagine a man who is a Christian. Lets call him Fred. Fred is a Christian and he is in a department store with 4 other customers Bill, John, Peter, and Ted.

Fred grabs an iPod off the shelf and slips it into his pocket and he intentionally leaves the store without paying for it.

Out of the five men in the store, which one sinned?
A. Fred
B. Bill
C. Peter
D. Ted
E. None of the above.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Romans 6 is written to alert us to the fact that we are no longer slaves to sin, and to warn us not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies. Paul is saying that we should not allow our old nature to sin [wilfully]. He is saying we should work to control it. Of course, we all know that we must have Christ's help to do this. And also, if we understand that we are not slaves to sin, then it is easier to avoid sin in the flesh, even more.

Excellent! I couldn't agree more.

 

[Benjamin]

it is apparent that you do not.

You are a pervert- I would rebuke you sharply if we were face to face you twisted fake.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

You are a pervert- I would rebuke you sharply if we were face to face you twisted fake.

Yeah... who are you Sozo's evil twin brother?

 

[Lighthouse]

The person! Regardless of which nature is responsible, the person does the sinful thing.

I don't mind conceding that the flesh is what makes us sin (after all that is my position as well). But we are who we are! (Proverbs 23:7)

Imagine a man who is a Christian. Lets call him Fred. Fred is a Christian and he is in a department store with 4 other customers Bill, John, Peter, and Ted.

Fred grabs an iPod off the shelf and slips it into his pocket and he intentionally leaves the store without paying for it.

Out of the five men in the store, which one sinned?
A. Fred
B. Bill
C. Peter
D. Ted
E. None of the above.

I have a hard time believing that someone who is in Christ would do such a thing.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I have a hard time believing that someone who is in Christ would do such a thing.

Do you believe it's impossible? (TOL poster elohiym thinks that).

If not, please answer the question I asked. :up:

 

[Benjamin]

I have a hard time believing that someone who is in Christ would do such a thing.

Someone who is born again? They are capable- see Luke 15:12,13,21,32

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Lighthouse if you want I can come up with a different example (other than stealing).

 

[Benjamin]

Do you believe it's impossible? (TOL poster elohiym thinks that).

If not, please answer the question I asked. :up:

Many people do. They could use a heavy study on Matthew 24:45-51 and Matthew 25's parable's as well.

 

[Lighthouse]

Do you believe it's impossible? (TOL poster elohiym thinks that).

If not, please answer the question I asked. :up:

No, I don't. But it's easier to believe a Christian would "sin" against themselves than against others. However, it was Fred who sinned. But in his flesh, not his spirit.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

However, it was Fred who sinned. But in his flesh, not his spirit.

:up: Thank you.

it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.
it was Fred who sinned.


Sozo... is Lighthouse going to hell now?

 

[Lighthouse]

Fred stole the iPod. So what? It was not stolen by a Christian, either way.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Fred stole the iPod. So what? It was not stolen by a Christian, either way.

The premise is Fred is a Christian.

Oh wait... let me guess... the Christian part of Fred didn't steal the iPod, it was the fleshy part of Fred that did it, right? :rotfl:

Even if that is your argument Fred still sinned! (even if only the fleshy part did).

 

[elected4ever]

You are a pervert- I would rebuke you sharply if we were face to face you twisted fake.

You are the pervert. To you the law is not dead and you masquerade as a Christian. You clam marriage to the law and Jesus at the same time. You are a spiritual adulterer. and Christ dos not know you. he has not joined himself to you a religious harlot you pervert.

 

[Benjamin]

You are the pervert. To you the law is not dead and you masquerade as a Christian. You clam marriage to the law and Jesus at the same time. You are a spiritual adulterer. and Christ dos not know you. he has not joined himself to you a religious harlot you pervert.

Please learn what "do not be decieved" means (1 Cor 6:9-11).