"|all you have to do is believe in Jesus".. Huh?

[turbosixx]

No, he is talking about God's law and any works of righteousness which we have done. Because even Gentiles have that "work of the law" written in their conscience.

Romans 2:14-15KJV
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )​

I see what your saying but if we look at the passage you quoted, how can they have the law on their hearts but not have the law?

Rom. 2:14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,

What law do they not have?

 

[turbosixx]

NOT OF YOURSELVES.....not of works....lest ANY MAN boast. This is why we have to guard against someone suggesting it's a matter of circumcision or various washings or rules (like God's UNtruth does). Paul is talking about righteousness not coming from any law through any works.

Eph. 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

This passage does not say without works but not of works. If it were by works then we could earn it but that is impossible.

I would love to believe as you do but I have to be sure because my soul depends on it.

Yes, we can not earn salvation by works, but can we be saved without them?

 

[turbosixx]

We are saved solely by the Christ's work on the cross and His obedience unto death.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.​

I'm trying to understand this faith alone thing so please bare with me.

Yes, Jesus did for us what we could not do, but does that free us from doing what we can do? Are we under no law? For instance, let's say I'm cheating on my wife and I become a believer, can I continue?

 

[Daniel1611]

I'm trying to understand this faith alone thing so please bare with me.

Yes, Jesus did for us what we could not do, but does that free us from doing what we can do? Are we under no law? For instance, let's say I'm cheating on my wife and I become a believer, can I continue?

If you cheat on your wife God will punish you on this earth. I am saved. If I go commit adultery, I will get punished but I won't go to hell. Jesus gives eternal life and we will never perish. He didn't say you might perish if you do something. I'm not saved because of my good behavior so why would I become unsaved because of my behavior?

 

[serpentdove]

This passage does not say without works but not of works. If it were by works then we could earn it but that is impossible.

I would love to believe as you do but I have to be sure because my soul depends on it.

Yes, we can not earn salvation by works, but can we be saved without them?

We cannot be saved by good works (Eph 2:8-9) but if we have no good works we are not saved (Lk 3:8). We are prepared for good works--so where are they? Eph 2:10

Which list are you on? Your works reveal who you are. It's not rocket science. :idunno:

"Paul spoke about the root of faith (Eph 2:8). James spoke about the fruit of faith (Jm 2:17-18)." ~ Adrian Rogers

The works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Ga 5:19–23).

 

[serpentdove]

I see what your saying but if we look at the passage you quoted, how can they have the law on their hearts but not have the law?...What law do they not have?

Everyone has the law. It's on their heart. What's happening in the conscience? Is it accusing them? That's evil--in my face. I get it now. I don't like that. I don't want that. I don't want to be party to that. Or, is it excusing them? That's evil--and I love it! I'm running to it. It's what I prefer and I don't much have time for Jesus. Jn 3:19

Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them (Ro 2:14–15).

 

[serpentdove]

"I'm trying to understand this faith alone thing so please bare with me."

“Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is not alone.” ~ John Calvin

"[L]et's say I'm cheating on my wife and I become a believer, can I continue?"

If you are cheating on your wife, you're not a believer (Jn 15:14). If you are cheating on your wife and come to agree with God that you are evil, then your slave obedience turns into friend obedience (Ac 9:35) and you discontinue in your evil course (Jn 15:15).

 

[serpentdove]

"If you cheat on your wife God will punish you on this earth."

What are you talking about? :dizzy: One of our tests to pass is watching the prosperity of the wicked (Ps. 73:1–28). Suck it up and praise God.

"Only a fool would envy a fool." ~ Adrian Rogers

"I am saved. If I go commit adultery, I will get punished but I won't go to hell."

Ro 8:13, Heb 12:14, 1 Co 6:9-10

See:

Apostasy & Eternal Security

 

[glorydaz]

And that one, isn't anybody on TOL or this earth.

Exactly. :thumb:

 

[glorydaz]

I see what your saying but if we look at the passage you quoted, how can they have the law on their hearts but not have the law?

Rom. 2:14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,

What law do they not have?

They don't have the law written down in stone, but they do have that law built right into their conscience. We all know right from wrong because we were created with that knowledge in us.

Romans 1:19-20 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:​

 

[glorydaz]

This passage does not say without works but not of works. If it were by works then we could earn it but that is impossible.

I would love to believe as you do but I have to be sure because my soul depends on it.

Yes, we can not earn salvation by works, but can we be saved without them?

Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us. Titus 3:5 Truly the righteousness of man is as filthy rags, and it's only what the Holy Spirit does through us that has any worth at all.

Salvation is a gift that cannot be earned or bought by man. Why?

Eph. 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.​

Man may glory in his works...but not before God. How can we earn a gift by doing what we ought? Would you give your son a reward for pulling up his pants if they fell down?

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.​

Whatever good work we do is merely what we owe God as our Lord and Creator.

Romans 4:3-4 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.​

God puts store in our believing and trusting in Him....not in our feeble attempts to be "perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect" which is what God requires.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

 

[glorydaz]

I'm trying to understand this faith alone thing so please bare with me.

Yes, Jesus did for us what we could not do, but does that free us from doing what we can do? Are we under no law? For instance, let's say I'm cheating on my wife and I become a believer, can I continue?

We have a liberty that we cannot have while under the law. But that's a whole topic in itself.

But, here's the answer to your "for instance":

If you cheat on your wife God will punish you on this earth. I am saved. If I go commit adultery, I will get punished but I won't go to hell. Jesus gives eternal life and we will never perish. He didn't say you might perish if you do something. I'm not saved because of my good behavior so why would I become unsaved because of my behavior?

:thumb:

And here's why:

1 Cor. 3:11-15 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.​

 

[glorydaz]

If you cheat on your wife God will punish you on this earth. I am saved. If I go commit adultery, I will get punished but I won't go to hell. Jesus gives eternal life and we will never perish. He didn't say you might perish if you do something. I'm not saved because of my good behavior so why would I become unsaved because of my behavior?

There ya go, and it's a darn good thing, too. Where would God draw the line? One lie, two lies, one time of lust in one's heart....two.....ten?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What are you talking about? :dizzy: One of our tests to pass is watching the prosperity of the wicked (Ps. 73:1–28). Suck it up and praise God.

"Only a fool would envy a fool." ~ Adrian Rogers


Ro 8:13, Heb 12:14, 1 Co 6:9-10

See:

Apostasy & Eternal Security

What is he talking about, you say? He's talking about the discipline of
God the Father on His child.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

“Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is not alone.” ~ John Calvin



If you are cheating on your wife, you're not a believer (Jn 15:14). If you are cheating on your wife and come to agree with God that you are evil, then your slave obedience turns into friend obedience (Ac 9:35) and you discontinue in your evil course (Jn 15:15).

Anything John Calvin had to say, must be taken with a grain of salt!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yes. Men must first be born again (Jn 1:13, 1 Pe 1:23). Come (Mt 11:29), believe (Jn 14:1), abide (Jn 15:4), follow him (Mt 28:20). He has the words of eternal life (Jn 6:68).

Those Scriptures were written to the Israelite's, not the Body of Christ.

 

[Lon]

James 2:14

"Faith without works is dead"

"Marriage without living together is a farce."

True or false? More importantly, what do I have to 'do' in order to be married? Explain that and you'll understand the difference between Catholics and the rest of us AND I think you'll also appreciate the difference.

There are marriage conferences that help struggling couples. In my opinion, the problem is beyond do's and don'ts's. Why? Because the 'reason' one gets married is the 'reason' one stays married. IOW, if you are reduced to do's and do not's, you may be missing the 'reason' you are married in the first place.

James, imo, isn't saying "do works." He is saying something akin to "If you aren't living together as a couple, are you really married?"

Now, I know couples are separated by things, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about a couple getting married and then leaving the church and never living together. Silly, right? How could they 'be' married? It doesn't make sense. I believe this is what James is saying because as a married person, I obviously do love my wife. As a Christian, I obviously do love Jesus. If that isn't true, then we wonder if that person knows what it means. Imho, that's all James is saying. That's it in a nutshell.

He isn't saying "live together to stay married" or "do works to stay with Jesus."
If I work in a different state to take care of my family, that doesn't mean anything about my marriage.
If I am or am not currently visiting those in prison, it doesn't mean I am not in Christ.
That isn't what I believe James is saying. I believe the Catholic church got this wrong. They are acting like a marriage conference giving couples a list of do's and do not's, missing the 'reason' (forest for a tree).

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

:mock: Meshak

Luckily, she's on a forced vacation.

 

[heir]

I'm not sure how you can see the bible saying things that are opposite and not in harmony with each other.

And I, am not sure how someone spiritual (1 Corinthians 2:13 KJV) can look at Acts 10:35 KJV and Titus 3:5 KJV and claim they are saying the same thing. They clearly aren't. Perhaps your problem is a natural one (1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV).

Did Cornelius earn acceptance?

Actually, yes! Look at why his prayers and alms came up for a memorial before God (Acts 10:3-4 KJV). It was because of this:

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

Acts 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.


Cornelius was a blesser and received a blessing because of it!



Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.



This will also be true for Gentiles who bless Israel during the tribulation. Their blessing will be to inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. Those who don't bless Israel shall go away into everlasting punishment


Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

Matthew 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

Matthew 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

Matthew 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

Matthew 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Matthew 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.




That's not going to happen for anyone today! There are no blessings unless you are in Christ!

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

There's only way for anyone today to be in Christ and that's "by the gospel"!

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[Sancocho]

I did not get from that who or which you believed, Christ or your works?

How long are you gunna keep up these works? they haven't saved you so far...will another 10 years of works save you?


When you lay on your death bed will you have done enough?

Catholic doctrine clearly establishes being saved is a gift and works do not allow one to get to heaven. Any claims to the otherwise are mis-truths and are the work of none other than Satan.