"|all you have to do is believe in Jesus".. Huh?

glorydaz

Well-known member
Rom. 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

When Paul says works "of the law" he is talking about the law of Moses which had no provision for the forgiveness of sins.


No provision?

Leviticus 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.​

That's why he calls it the law of sin and death. Rom. 8:2.

We are not under the law of Moses but under the law of Christ. Gal. 6:2.

If you can show me from the context of Roman, that he is not talking about the law of Moses, I would better understand what you are saying.

So you're calling the ten commandments the law of Moses?

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
So what you're saying is you have and do obey every commandment at all times without fail? If it's not faith alone, you best be sinless. If you break the law in one point, you are guilty of all.
That just isn't true. What is so hard to conceive that Faith and acts of selflessness are both through God. Just people judging others is arrogance and pride and a sin. So how can you say that you would be prideful through selfless acts more so than Faith alone. Pride isn't supposed to be part of the equation. Division of any kind isn't supposed to be in the equation. Negativity of any kind isn't supposed to be in the equation.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
It takes more than mere belief. It takes belief that causes action. That is what it means to believe. Saved by "faith alone" is a scheme of the devil. Just as he told Adam and Eve they would NOT surely die, today he says "faith without works is NOT dead."

So where's the list of how many works we have to do in order to get a passing grade?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
That just isn't true. What is so hard to conceive that Faith and acts of selflessness are both through God. Just people judging others is arrogance and pride and a sin. So how can you say that you would be prideful through selfless acts more so than Faith alone. Pride isn't supposed to be part of the equation. Division of any kind isn't supposed to be in the equation. Negativity of any kind isn't supposed to be in the equation.

Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us. Titus 3:5 Selfless acts = works of righteousness.
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Those verses were written to the Jews. Not to the Body of Christ.

Jas 1:21

"Not all Scripture is written to us, but all Scripture is written for us." ~ J. Vernon McGee

"John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil (ὑμεις ἐκ του πατρος του διαβολου [humeis ek tou patros tou diabolou]). Certainly they can “understand” (γινωσκετε [ginōskete] in 43) this “talk” (λαλιαν [lalian]) though they will be greatly angered. But they had to hear it (ἀκουειν [akouein] in 43). It was like a bombshell in spite of the preliminary preparation. Your will to do (θελετε ποιειν [thelete poiein]). Present active indicative of θελω [thelō] and present active infinitive, “Ye wish to go on doing.” This same idea Jesus presents in Matt. 13:38 (the sons of the evil one, the devil) and 23:15 (twofold more a son of Gehenna than you). See also 1 John 3:8 for “of the devil” (ἐκ του διαβολου [ek tou diabolou]) for the one who persists in sinning. In Rev. 12:9 the devil is one who leads all the world astray. The Gnostic view that Jesus means “the father of the devil” is grotesque. Jesus does not, of course, here deny that the Jews, like all men, are children of God the Creator, like Paul’s offspring of God for all men in Acts 17:28. What he denies to these Pharisees is that they are spiritual children of God who do his will. They do the lusts and will of the devil. The Baptist had denied this same spiritual fatherhood to the merely physical descendants of Abraham (Matt. 3:9). He even called them “broods of vipers” as Jesus did later (Matt. 12:34). A murderer (ἀνθρωποκτονος [anthrōpoktonos]). Old and rare word (Euripides) from ἀνθρωπος [anthrōpos], man, and κτεινω [kteinō], to kill. In N.T. only here and 1 John 3:15. The Jews were seeking to kill Jesus and so like their father the devil. Stood not in the truth (ἐν τῃ ἀληθειᾳ οὐκ ἐστηκεν [en tēi alētheiāi ouk estēken]). Since οὐκ [ouk], not οὐχ [ouch], is genuine, the form of the verb is ἐστεκεν [esteken] the imperfect of the late present stem στηκω [stēkō] (Mark 11:25) from the perfect active ἑστηκα [hestēka] (intransitive) of ἱστημι [histēmi], to place. No truth in him (οὐκ ἐστιν ἀληθεια ἐν αὐτῳ [ouk estin alētheia en autōi]). Inside him or outside (environment). The devil and truth have no contact. When he speaketh a lie (ὁταν λαλῃ το ψευδος [hotan lalēi to pseudos]). Indefinite temporal clause with ὁταν [hotan] and the present active subjunctive of λαλεω [laleō]. But note the article το [to]: “Whenever he speaks the lie,” as he is sure to do because it is his nature. Hence “he speaks out of his own” (ἐκ των ἰδιων λαλει [ek tōn idiōn lalei]) like a fountain bubbling up (cf. Matt. 12:34). For he is a liar (ὁτι ψευστης ἐστιν [hoti pseustēs estin]). Old word for the agent in a conscious falsehood (ψευδος [pseudos]). See 1 John 1:10; Rom. 3:4. Common word in John because of the emphasis on ἀληθεια [alētheia] (truth). And the father thereof (και ὁ πατηρ αὐτου [kai ho patēr autou]). Either the father of the lie or of the liar, both of which are true as already shown by Jesus. Αὐτου [Autou] in the genitive can be either neuter or masculine. Westcott takes it thus, “because he is a liar and his father (the devil) is a liar,” making “one,” not the devil, the subject of “whenever he speaks,” a very doubtful expression." "Robertson, A. T. (1933). Word Pictures in the New Testament (Jn 8:44). Nashville, TN: Broadman Press.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Jas 1:21

"Not all Scripture is written to us, but all Scripture is written for us." ~ J. Vernon McGee

"John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil (ὑμεις ἐκ του πατρος του διαβολου [humeis ek tou patros tou diabolou]). Certainly they can “understand” (γινωσκετε [ginōskete] in 43) this “talk” (λαλιαν [lalian]) though they will be greatly angered. But they had to hear it (ἀκουειν [akouein] in 43). It was like a bombshell in spite of the preliminary preparation. Your will to do (θελετε ποιειν [thelete poiein]). Present active indicative of θελω [thelō] and present active infinitive, “Ye wish to go on doing.” This same idea Jesus presents in Matt. 13:38 (the sons of the evil one, the devil) and 23:15 (twofold more a son of Gehenna than you). See also 1 John 3:8 for “of the devil” (ἐκ του διαβολου [ek tou diabolou]) for the one who persists in sinning. In Rev. 12:9 the devil is one who leads all the world astray. The Gnostic view that Jesus means “the father of the devil” is grotesque. Jesus does not, of course, here deny that the Jews, like all men, are children of God the Creator, like Paul’s offspring of God for all men in Acts 17:28. What he denies to these Pharisees is that they are spiritual children of God who do his will. They do the lusts and will of the devil. The Baptist had denied this same spiritual fatherhood to the merely physical descendants of Abraham (Matt. 3:9). He even called them “broods of vipers” as Jesus did later (Matt. 12:34). A murderer (ἀνθρωποκτονος [anthrōpoktonos]). Old and rare word (Euripides) from ἀνθρωπος [anthrōpos], man, and κτεινω [kteinō], to kill. In N.*T. only here and 1 John 3:15. The Jews were seeking to kill Jesus and so like their father the devil. Stood not in the truth (ἐν τῃ ἀληθειᾳ οὐκ ἐστηκεν [en tēi alētheiāi ouk estēken]). Since οὐκ [ouk], not οὐχ [ouch], is genuine, the form of the verb is ἐστεκεν [esteken] the imperfect of the late present stem στηκω [stēkō] (Mark 11:25) from the perfect active ἑστηκα [hestēka] (intransitive) of ἱστημι [histēmi], to place. No truth in him (οὐκ ἐστιν ἀληθεια ἐν αὐτῳ [ouk estin alētheia en autōi]). Inside him or outside (environment). The devil and truth have no contact. When he speaketh a lie (ὁταν λαλῃ το ψευδος [hotan lalēi to pseudos]). Indefinite temporal clause with ὁταν [hotan] and the present active subjunctive of λαλεω [laleō]. But note the article το [to]: “Whenever he speaks the lie,” as he is sure to do because it is his nature. Hence “he speaks out of his own” (ἐκ των ἰδιων λαλει [ek tōn idiōn lalei]) like a fountain bubbling up (cf. Matt. 12:34). For he is a liar (ὁτι ψευστης ἐστιν [hoti pseustēs estin]). Old word for the agent in a conscious falsehood (ψευδος [pseudos]). See 1 John 1:10; Rom. 3:4. Common word in John because of the emphasis on ἀληθεια [alētheia] (truth). And the father thereof (και ὁ πατηρ αὐτου [kai ho patēr autou]). Either the father of the lie or of the liar, both of which are true as already shown by Jesus. Αὐτου [Autou] in the genitive can be either neuter or masculine. Westcott takes it thus, “because he is a liar and his father (the devil) is a liar,” making “one,” not the devil, the subject of “whenever he speaks,” a very doubtful expression." "Robertson, A. T. (1933). Word Pictures in the New Testament (Jn 8:44). Nashville, TN: Broadman Press.

So, do you think you've convinced me?
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
...these Bible ignrant folks who want to sin right & left and lie to themselves that God is OK with that.. geeze... never saw so much lying to yourself.. and others... they are true liberals...
Some are deceived themselves (2 Tim. 3:13). An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (Ps 119:11).
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Salvation is through Faith, good works...
No.

"Ro 11:6 grace … no longer of works. Human effort and God’s grace are mutually exclusive ways to salvation (cf. 3:21–31; 4:1–11; 9:11; Gal. 2:16, 21; 3:11, 12, 18; Titus 3:5)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1714). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

"You are not saved by your works. You work because you're saved." ~ Adrian Rogers

...and truth.
Ro 10:17, Ps 119:160
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Regardless of if you believe Jesus was God while he walked the earth, or not, you still must act in the same manner that you have faith, not belief. If all you have is some belief that can't be called Faith because of doubt, then you are currently lost. How can you believe something and not act accordingly, unless you don't really believe?

There you put the onus on man and his works of righteousness. Not good.


And do you give yourself credit for "acting accordingly" or do you acknowledge that we are being conformed into the image of the Son?

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24KJV
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

The minute we put our eyes on ourselves, we are taking our eyes off the ONE who deserves all the glory. (If left up to me, I would not even begin to be like Him. And I don't mind admitting it.)
 
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