"|all you have to do is believe in Jesus".. Huh?

[republicanchick]

Hi , and what commandments and verse is this found ??

dAN P

you can look it up online


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[turbosixx]

The assertion that "faith without works is dead" is not the same as asserting that works, in and of themselves, are a means of securing salvation.

Works are not a means of salvation, they are an intrinsic byproduct of faith.

Faith without works is not genuine. Ergo, faith without works IS dead.

The fact that so many "work" so diligently to proclaim faith as being the only means of salvation is testament to their faith. Works being the manifestation of faith and faith being the sole source of salvation.

Yes, faith is how we are saved but not by faith without works.

 

[republicanchick]

Yes, Jesus did for us what we COULD NOT do, does that free us from doing what we can do? Are we free to do nothing?

nicely worded

these Bible ignrant folks who want to sin right & left and lie to themselves that God is OK with that.. geeze... never saw so much lying to yourself.. and others... they are true liberals



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[Daniel1611]

I wish the truth could be impressed upon them, but this "Pauline Christianity" has taken hold in America. It seems people like the idea of an effortless Christianity. Christ Himself said in effect to believe on Him was to follow Him - it is not just confessing one's belief with one's mouth - that may get one in the door, but to remain a Christian, one is called to follow Christ.
Matt 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 ¶Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Notice he says people call him Lord AND claim their wonderful works, and he tells them to depart. Because it isn't about your works. It is about Jesus' work. Following Jesus commandments is wise. It is foolish to break his commands. But it is not a prerequisite for salvation. If it were, no one would be saved because no one follows his commandments perfectly.

 

[republicanchick]

N. Following Jesus commandments is wise. It is foolish to break his commands. But it is not a prerequisite for salvation. y.

prove it



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[Foxfire]

Hi , and what commandments and verse is this found ??

dAN P

Jn 14:15

 

[Daniel1611]

prove it



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Do you follow Jesus' commandments perfectly?

 

[Foxfire]

Do you follow Jesus' commandments perfectly?

Do you "work" toward that end goal?

 

[Daniel1611]

Do you "work" toward that end goal?

I do my best. Far from perfect.

Luke 18:10-13

10*Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11*The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12*I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13*And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14*I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[republicanchick]

Do you follow Jesus' commandments perfectly?

more or less

no one said (nt me anyway) that a person had to be perfect to get to Heaven.. but if you don't give up mortal sin, you will NOT get there...

not loving your neighbor or trying to (as you love yourself) is a mortal sin... Looks like many here are violating that one right and left.. every day



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[republicanchick]

you actually have to be perfect to get to heaven, its a commandment

yeh, i realize i made a (OMG!!!!) mistake when i said you don't have to be perfect to get to Heaven. You do have to be perfect... yes indeedy

But what i meant was you don't have to be perfect to get to PURGATORY (which eventually leads to Heavn)

In Purgatory you will be perfected...



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[Daniel1611]

more or less

no one said (nt me anyway) that a person had to be perfect to get to Heaven.. but if you don't give up mortal sin, you will NOT get there...

not loving your neighbor or trying to (as you love yourself) is a mortal sin... Looks like many here are violating that one right and left.. every day



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If you're not following Jesus' commandments perfectly, then you are not following his commandments. You say you have to live out Christ's teaching to go heaven AND you say you don't have to follow all of it. Which is it? You either have to follow the commandments to be saved or you don't. You want it both ways. If it is works, it is no more grace.

 

[Foxfire]

:up:

I do my best. Far from perfect.

Luke 18:10-13

10*Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11*The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12*I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13*And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14*I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

I do my best. Far from perfect.

I think that's the key. :up:

Humility is a virtue that one must always strive (work) to be observant of.

 

[turbosixx]

Notice he says people call him Lord AND claim their wonderful works, and he tells them to depart. Because it isn't about your works. It is about Jesus' work. Following Jesus commandments is wise. It is foolish to break his commands. But it is not a prerequisite for salvation. If it were, no one would be saved because no one follows his commandments perfectly.

You are not being honest with what the passage says. What is HIS accusation against them, not yours?

Verse 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'

 

[RevTestament]

Notice he says people call him Lord AND claim their wonderful works, and he tells them to depart. Because it isn't about your works. It is about Jesus' work. Following Jesus commandments is wise. It is foolish to break his commands. But it is not a prerequisite for salvation. If it were, no one would be saved because no one follows his commandments perfectly.

I don't read it that way - they said didn't we do this thing IN THY NAME? They weren't taking credit for doing the works with their mouths:

Matt 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 ¶Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

I believe He is talking about the TV evangelist "healers" for example. Jesus' law is about the intent of the heart rather than the black letter law. In other words it gains us nothing to give money to the poor if we do it for show or to look pious to those in a crowd. It gains the TV evangelist nothing who puts on a show of "healings" if he is doing it to get more people to watch and collect more donations.

Now I am not saying we can perfect ourselves by following commandments. That is why we need His grace - that is how we are saved by His grace. But to intentionally not follow or break His commandments IS detrimental to our "salvation." He may not extend His grace to that kind of sin. He extends His grace to make up for our shortcomings - not to cover our intentional murders for instance. His grace takes into account our knowledge, understanding, experience, etc. This is why He said those Jews who had seen His miracles and yet rejected him would suffer more than those of Sodom and Gomorrah whom the judgment would be more tolerable for.

 

[serpentdove]

so many so called Christians say that all you have to do is believe... always pointing to those psgs that seem to say this.. just believe stuff

well, if you really believe Jesus..

if you really, really believe in Him.. you will do what He says

He said this Himself

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Also see:

James 2:14

"Faith without works is dead"

Repentance (Ac 8:22) or conversion (Ac 15:3) is turning (Ac 9:35) or returning (1 Sa 7:3). "Believe in the original language means "to be convinced"..." Full text: Armor of the Lord

If you're the real deal--your life will show it. Bear fruits worthy of repentance (Lk 3:8).

Bad roots bad fruits. Good roots good fruits (Jm 2:17-18).

See:

Works vs. Faith

 

[republicanchick]

If you're not following Jesus' commandments perfectly, then you are not following his commandments. You say you have to live out Christ's teaching to go heaven AND you say you don't have to follow all of it. Which is it? You either have to follow the commandments to be saved or you don't. You want it both ways. If it is works, it is no more grace.

stop putting dumb words in my mouth

it is not impossible to give up MORTAL sin (fornication, abortion, homosexual acts, "doing yourself"...)

But it IS hard to give up... holding a grudge against someone who is truly evil

it IS difficult to forgive objectively speaking evil people who harm you... or would if u gave them a chance...

yet we are called to forgive. If you tell God I am NOT going to even try to forgive.. that is a mortal sin. But if you try and fail and try and fail many tmes... God knows your heart and will not hold that against you (unless u stop trying)



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[republicanchick]

Repentance (Ac 8:22) or conversion (Ac 15:3) is turning (Ac 9:35) or returning (1 Sa 7:3). "Believe in the original language means "to be convinced"..." Full text: Armor of the Lord

If you're the real deal--your life will show it. Bear fruits worthy of repentance (Lk 3:8).

Bad roots bad fruits. Good roots good fruits (Jm 2:17-18). .gif[/img]
Faith [/URL]

yeh, and those who say they don't see good or bad fruits in a given person (Ted Cruz, etc) are LYING




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[Daniel1611]

stop putting dumb words in my mouth

it is not impossible to give up MORTAL sin (fornication, abortion, homosexual acts, "doing yourself"...)

But it IS hard to give up... holding a grudge against someone who is truly evil

it IS difficult to forgive objectively speaking evil people who harm you... or would if u gave them a chance...

yet we are called to forgive. If you tell God I am NOT going to even try to forgive.. that is a mortal sin. But if you try and fail and try and fail many tmes... God knows your heart and will not hold that against you (unless u stop trying)



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Way to make up the rules as you go. Your explanation is found nowhere in scripture

 

[serpentdove]

It takes more than mere belief. It takes belief that causes action...

Faith leads to action (Rom. 7:4). They are going to need spiritual eyeballs (Ac 26:17, 1 Jn 5:19).