"|all you have to do is believe in Jesus".. Huh?

Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
glorydaz said:
Have you gotten a response on this? I won't be surprised if it's ignored. Doubt is truly the largest and thickest pair of blinders ever made. :nono:
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turbosixx appears to be one of the many schizophrenic "believers" here on TOL. When I stated this:
Right Divider said:
Saved BY grace THEN walk in good works.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Works count for NOTHING UNTIL one is saved.
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To this, turbosixx said this:
turbosixx said:
That's the way I understand it.
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To which I said:
Right Divider said:
So you NOW understand that salvation is by grace apart from works?
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To that, turbosixx said:
turbosixx said:
That is not what I agreed to.

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
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So, clearly turbosixx has a split personality and needs to get help right away.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Right Divider said:
You are just completely full of double-talk.

I guess that you're just a one verser.
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Sorry, I will be glad to post more to support my point.

1 Cor. 6:7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Yes, they are Christians and are justified. Why then the warning "Do no be deceived"? Don't they already know non-Christians will not inherit the kingdom of God?

5:11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

How are we to know who is a Christian and who is not, by their works, good or bad.
 
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B

Ben Masada

New member
republicanchick said:
When someone asked Jesus what he must do to be saved

He said

Obey the commandmnets

then he said If you want to be perfect, sell what you have, giv to the poor and follow Me

lots of DOING involved there, eh?
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I know that Republicanchick but your coreligionists prefer faith that every thing will happen without doing any thing. Believe me, I don't know why Paul had to poison their minds so irresponsibly.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
glorydaz said:
Sure is convenient for you to go verse hopping to find verses you hope will agree with you. :chuckle:

Return to where you started....in Romans. Was Abraham circumcised when faith was reckoned to him for righteousness. NO, he was not. The "law of Moses" had not yet been given.

Romans 4:9-10 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.​
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Good point and that is the point Paul is making. Paul is trying to change a mindset that has been going on for over a thousand years. The Jews, having circumcision and the law, have been God's people and were trusting/boasting in that fact. They didn't want to give that up so Paul is making arguments to show them that is not the way of salvation.
2:17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law;

First he tells them they are in the same boat as Gentiles.
2:9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
They have always been clean and the Gentiles unclean, but that has now changed. Acts 10:28

Further evidence that having the law and circumcision does not make them righteous.
2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.
3:9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.

Since having circumcision and the law has not made them righteous and they are no better than the Gentiles, Paul tells them of a better way that the law was leading them to. Gal. 3:24
3:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

He uses Abraham as an example to prove righteousness can come without circumcision and without the law.
4:9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!

Then he reminds them the promise came by faith and is for everyone not just them (under law).
4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Then he goes on to say that Christ's blood is how we are saved and so on, then he tells them they have been released from the law.
7:6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

That has been Paul's point all along, being a Jew and having the law (Mosaical) can not save, only faith in Christ. He is trying hard to convince them.
10:1 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.
 
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turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
j4jesus09 said:
He is speaking of the law of Moses. Which was observance of deeds only for salvation. Basically, a man can work his way into heaven. Paul said no sir, faith is the only way to be saved not by our works.
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Yes, by the works "of the law" no one can be saved.

Heb. 7:11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?
 
j4jesus09

j4jesus09

New member
glorydaz said:
They can believe what they want, of course, but when they preach it they are to be cursed. What keeps people away from God if not this idea that we have to perform what we know deep inside we cannot do? They end up giving up..."Why bother to try, I know I can't stop sinning?"

God does not offer us a gift with strings, and those who add them need to be stopped from preaching their NOT GOOD NEWS.
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Well some may have to "give up" in a sense. Not entirely but give up trying to work to be perfect instead of letting God perfct tehm. Let them exhaust themselves to see they can't keep up the good works without Him. That's what I mean when I say let them. And they are to be cursed but not but us. We just preach the truth that we believe and understand. God will do the cursing.
 
j4jesus09

j4jesus09

New member
glorydaz said:
Well, the Jews were "trying to serve the Lord", too, and they sought to do so by their own efforts. Actually, they were quite proud of their obedience. Yet Paul's desire and prayer was that they be saved. Having zeal is not enough. "Everyone's perspective" will not save them.


Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.​

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Understood. Let's win people for the Lord! :)
 
j4jesus09

j4jesus09

New member
turbosixx said:
Yes, by the works "of the law" no one can be saved.

Heb. 7:11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?
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Okay, by the works of the law no one can be saved. Gotcha.It didn't work back then, so what can works do now for us to be saved?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
turbosixx said:
Sorry, I will be glad to post more to support my point.

1 Cor. 6:7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Yes, they are Christians and are justified. Why then the warning "Do no be deceived"? Don't they already know non-Christians will not inherit the kingdom of God?

5:11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

How are we to know who is a Christian and who is not, by their works, good or bad.
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Firstly, YOU cannot tell who is a Christian and who is not by their works. There are many unsaved workers out there. There are many "ministers of righteousness" that APPEAR to be what they are not.

Secondly, grace believers are sealed the moment that they trust what Christ has done for them.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Right Divider said:
Firstly, YOU cannot tell who is a Christian and who is not by their works. There are many unsaved workers out there. There are many "ministers of righteousness" that APPEAR to be what they are not.

Secondly, grace believers are sealed the moment that they trust what Christ has done for them.
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AMEN!
 
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