"|all you have to do is believe in Jesus".. Huh?

[turbosixx]

Sure it's faith "alone", but salvation includes living that faith. Salvation is not contingent upon works, instead meaning works OF faith are inevitable.

The MADers are just prone to an almost taunting style of blatant disregard for works in their discussion. They're just coming against salvation BY works, and don't express it very well.

Salvation is a state of being, not just an initial event. They're not good at saying such things.

"salvation includes living that faith"
That is not "faith alone", that is faith that works which is what I believe.

Here is what the bible says about "faith alone".

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I believe what it says.

 

[turbosixx]

Read the WHOLE thing Bible Chopper.

1 Cor. 6-8-11 KJV
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Then why the warning to CHRISTIANS?

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

They already know non-Christians will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[republicanchick]

When someone asked Jesus what he must do to be saved

He said

Obey the commandmnets

then he said If you want to be perfect, sell what you have, giv to the poor and follow Me

lots of DOING involved there, eh?



_____

 

[turbosixx]

By his actions or lack thereof. And, ONCE AGAIN, this does NOT show that works are required to receive the FREE GIFT. Otherwise what Jesus did on the CROSS is not enough.

That 's right, he didn't do something but the others did. I guess we see the same point.

Luke 17:10 So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'"

Even when we do as commanded we are still unworthy, that is why we receive grace. Jesus did for us what we could not do for ourselves. Are there things we can do? Did Jesus do it all and we are free to live as we choose?

1 Jn. 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

 

[Right Divider]

Then why the warning to CHRISTIANS?

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

They already know non-Christians will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I guess that it's there so people like you can make false claims about it.

It's about behavior and NOT salvation (i.e., eternal life).

 

[Right Divider]

That 's right, he didn't do something but the others did. I guess we see the same point.

Luke 17:10 So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'"

Even when we do as commanded we are still unworthy, that is why we receive grace. Jesus did for us what we could not do for ourselves. Are there things we can do? Did Jesus do it all and we are free to live as we choose?

1 Jn. 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

Saved BY grace THEN walk in good works.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
​

Works count for NOTHING UNTIL one is saved.

 

[turbosixx]

Saved BY grace THEN walk in good works.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
​

Works count for NOTHING UNTIL one is saved.

That's the way I understand it.

 

[turbosixx]

I guess that it's there so people like you can make false claims about it.

Strange reason for the Holy Spirit to put that in there.

It's about behavior and NOT salvation (i.e., eternal life).

So a Christian can be an adulterer and still receive eternal life?

 

[Right Divider]

That's the way I understand it.

So you NOW understand that salvation is by grace apart from works?

 

[Right Divider]

Strange reason for the Holy Spirit to put that in there.



So a Christian can be an adulterer and still receive eternal life?

I don't think that a believer would remain in blatant continuous sin.

 

[turbosixx]

So you NOW understand that salvation is by grace apart from works?

That is not what I agreed to.

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[turbosixx]

I don't think that a believer would remain in blatant continuous sin.

What is your understanding of a believer?

 

[j4jesus09]

Yes of course there is more than just believing in Jesus. The majority of churches are led to believe in a Jesus that satisfies the lust of the world, self gratification and gaining success in this world. The bible has a great way of preaching the real belief of Christ, like a hidden message to our spirits and hearts that Sunday teaching can't soley provide. So therefore the belief in Jesus is only partial. God is able though.

 

[glorydaz]

But are we saved without them?

Luke 17:10 So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'"

Let me put it this way....We are not the ONE. The gift of righteousness we receive was through the obedience of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you think of yourself as Lord, keep preaching what you're preaching. But....you won't be saved with the "good news" that YOU must perform anything.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.​

 

[j4jesus09]

What is your understanding of a believer?

The answer was kind of given in the statement made. A believer would not stay in blatant sin. That is one sign of a believer. He believes in forsaking sin. Because the bible tells me so.

 

[glorydaz]

Sure it's faith "alone", but salvation includes living that faith. Salvation is not contingent upon works, instead meaning works OF faith are inevitable.

The MADers are just prone to an almost taunting style of blatant disregard for works in their discussion. They're just coming against salvation BY works, and don't express it very well.

Salvation is a state of being, not just an initial event. They're not good at saying such things.

Like you are? :rotfl:

Unfortunately, if you give a worker an inch, he'll take a mile. There is something in man that insists on taking some of the glory that belongs to God alone. It's known as the pride of life.

So, we refuse to give room to boasting in something that will only lead to more and more pride. The "works" that follow salvation are NOT our own. We don't get saved by our works and our works don't keep us saved. They certainly can get in the way of the work God is doing through us....because we can't resist trying to steal some of the glory.

Just read the posts on this thread and see how impossible it is for people to give up the idea that God is doing the work in us. So, don't be saying we don't know how to explain where "works" come into the picture.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

 

[j4jesus09]

Like you are? :rotfl:

Unfortunately, if you give a worker an inch, he'll take a mile. There is something in man that insists on taking some of the glory that belongs to God alone. It's known as the pride of life.

So, we refuse to give room to boasting in something that will only lead to more and more pride. The "works" that follow salvation are NOT our own. We don't get saved by our works and our works don't keep us saved. They certainly can get in the way of the work God is doing through us....because we can't resist trying to steal some of the glory.

Just read the posts on this thread and see how impossible it is for people to give up the idea that God is doing the work in us. So, don't be saying we don't know how to explain where "works" come into the picture.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

Yep,

Philippians 2:13
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[turbosixx]

Let me put it this way....We are not the ONE. The gift of righteousness we receive was through the obedience of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you think of yourself as Lord, keep preaching what you're preaching. But....you won't be saved with the "good news" that YOU must perform anything.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.​

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[glorydaz]

So a Christian can be an adulterer and still receive eternal life?

Matt. 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.​

 

[turbosixx]

The answer was kind of given in the statement made. A believer would not stay in blatant sin. That is one sign of a believer. He believes in forsaking sin. Because the bible tells me so.

If one is not practicing sin, then they are keeping the commandments. That is not "faith alone", but faith that works which makes sense from what I read.

Rom. 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.