Abortion Photos Real, NY Times Fake

[serpentdove]

"Abortion's appalling enough without constantly needing to compare it to something else. It really isn't like any other past atrocity..."

Is it as bad as slavery? Atheists often accuse God of condoning slavery because it's in the Bible. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just because slavery is mentioned in the Bible it does not mean that God endorsed it (Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7). David's adultery is given in scripture, too (2 Sam. 11:2–5). God made him pay dearly for his sin (Psa. 38; 41; 69).

You say it is horrific yet you do not want it compared with past atrocities? Why? Is it because the argument rings true in the hearts of people who still have a functioning conscience? You are a Satanist. Why would we expect you to be fighting for our team?

The reason you do not like the argument is the same reason that rats scurry and birds fly when the farmer turns the light on in the barn. People who hate God hate his truth. People who love God see the light and fly high as God intended for them (Isa 40:31).

[The children are dead.] "Is the implication that being dead they are yours to do with as you see fit?"

The people gathering evidence of their murders see fit to warn others. If people weren't disposing of babies as if they were trash (the fruit of sexual sin), Christians would be off doing other things. But as usual, they must spend their lives picking up the "trash" that liberals leave behind (Jn 10:10).

"[Y]ou have no idea what I do and to presume otherwise is, to be kind, outrageously arrogant on your part."

Then maybe you'll join the pro-lifers instead of critiquing them next time. I am sure they would prefer to give these children a proper burial. That would be ideal. But we live in an upside down world. What is a pro-lifer to do with when he must decide between more evidence gathering or a proper burial? Let's ask the Satanist his advice.

"You're succumbing to what I call pro-life McCarthyism..."

Of course you would love communism too.

"...unless someone agrees with you point by point"

Don't agree with me. Agree with God. We are to speak out for the one who cannot speak (Prov. 31:8, GWT). You speak out against those--who are speaking for those who cannot speak.

"...they're suddenly not anti-abortion enough, or "secretly" pro-choice."

Should the Christian believe the Satanist or God's word? "All those who hate me love death (Prov 8:36, NASB)." Do I misunderstand your agenda. Now you love God?

 

[Lighthouse]

Maybe one of those three dee color sonogram pictures, the old school ones are kinda hard to make out, it makes more sense when you're sitting there watching the live feed and you can see him kicking his legs and sucking his thumb, then it gets freaky when they press down and they measure the brain and look at the heart beating.

True. If we could only afford a monitor on which to play a video recording of one.

The increase in social tension has always been a necessity before any meaningful change takes place. The fact that pro-life graphic protests increase social tension (even among fellow pro-lifers like Granite) more than any other pro-life tactic is inspiration for me to keep on protesting with my graphic signs. The more they complain, the more inspired I get. Thank you Granite!

And I will help you hold it next Saturday.

 

[Granite]

Now you're just acting irrational. And you started off so well...

Is it as bad as slavery?

Worse, obviously. And scripture very clearly condones slavery and never once condemns it, so get your facts straight.

You say it is horrific yet you do not want it compared with past atrocities?

It's not as though I don't want it compared to such events, I simply think those comparisons aren't accurate. Again, most analogies usually aren't.

You are a Satanist. Why would we expect you to be fighting for our team?

I'm not on anyone's "team," pal. And if you understood Satanism, actually understood it, my opposition to abortion would not surprise you.

Then maybe you'll join the pro-lifers instead of critiquing them next time.

Let me ask you this: is someone above criticism and beyond reproach just because they're pro-life? Is nothing about the movement open for criticism?

What is a pro-lifer to do with when he must decide between more evidence gathering or a proper burial?

A proper burial, you thick, daft, insensitive, crass dope.

Of course you would love communism too.

Completely missed my point.

You're not terribly bright.

 

[Granite]

The increase in social tension has always been a necessity before any meaningful change takes place. The fact that pro-life graphic protests increase social tension (even among fellow pro-lifers like Granite) more than any other pro-life tactic is inspiration for me to keep on protesting with my graphic signs. The more they complain, the more inspired I get. Thank you Granite!

"Fellow pro-lifers like Granite." How generous, coming from the likes of you.

 

[fool]

True. If we could only afford a monitor on which to play a video recording of one.

Maybe buy some time on one of those electronic billboards.

 

[serpentdove]

"cripture very clearly condones slavery and never once condemns it, so get your facts straight."

Never once does God condone slavery in the bible. It is just one more excuse that the godless use to dismiss God. Biblical illiteracy has consequences.

[Abortion/slavery struggle] "I simply think those comparisons aren't accurate. Again, most analogies usually aren't."

If the comparisons are not accurate, then they should not bother you. Yet, you critique those comparing the struggle of slavery to the next struggle which is abortion. Those who know their Bible and love God fight for what he is against--and has always been against--such as slavery (there is still sex trafficking going on) and the death of children by abortion.

[Satanist] "I'm not on anyone's "team," pal."

You are not on Satan's team? I beg to differ.

"...And if you understood Satanism, actually understood it, my opposition to abortion would not surprise you."

I am more interested in knowing what it true which is found in the pages of scripture. We don't have to get into every pigpen to understand pigs. Satan is a loser. Why anyone would want to be on his team is beyond me.

"...s someone above criticism and beyond reproach just because they're pro-life?"

No. Many "pro-lifers" are compromisers.

"Is nothing about the movement open for criticism?"

Pro-lifers should be critiqued for their compromise, sure. For example, they should not compromise with child-killing legislation such as laws that end with "...and then you can kill the baby." (Enyart). This is a fair critique of pro-lifers.

[Deciding between evidence gathering and burial of the murdered child] "A proper burial, you thick, daft, insensitive, crass dope."

So your priorities would be--be sure to protect the right to kill babies so that people can freely commit sexual sin, and then be sure that the murdered baby's body is cared for? :liberals: See, this is why pro-lifers don't invite too many Satanists to their strategy meetings for brainstorming ideas.

[Pro-life McCarthyism] "Completely missed my point."

No I didn't. I do not coddle liberals when they pull out their two favorite words: "Nazi" and "McCarthyism". If you want to discuss why communism should be rooted out of government, I am happy to.

 

[Granite]

Never once does God condone slavery in the bible. It is just one more excuse that the godless use to dismiss God. Biblical illiteracy has consequences.

Yes, your deity does. Slavery is never condemned, and his followers were ordered to take slaves as well. Be that as it may, it's completely off topic and not relevant to this discussion. Start another thread if you like.

If the comparisons are not accurate, then they should not bother you.

They don't "bother" me morally, but I'm a stickler for historical accuracy. Probably I'm splitting hairs too much but I just don't see the accuracy in comparisons like these, nor do I see a need.

You are not on Satan's team? I beg to differ.

Well, tough. You just don't know what you're talking about.

No. Many "pro-lifers" are compromisers.

Quite correct, and they should be upbraided.

Pro-lifers should be critiqued for their compromise, sure. For example, they should not compromise with child-killing legislation such as laws that end with "...and then you can kill the baby." (Enyart). This is a fair critique of pro-lifers.

You would consider that the only possible legitimate criticism of the pro-life movement?

So your priorities would be--be sure to protect the right to kill babies so that people can freely commit sexual sin, and then be sure that the murdered baby's body is cared for? :

No, no, no. That's not what I said at all. I want abortion to cease and I believe it's an abomination worth fighting. When it happens and you are personally exposed to its reality you don't pose a child's corpse, manhandle it, use it as a prop, and leave it in the garbage. That, to me, is a grotesque, twisted, sick, macabre violation of everything the movement's supposed to stand for. Give the child a proper burial. What about this concept is so hard for you to understand?

If you want to discuss why communism should be rooted out of government, I am happy to.

Why should we do that? Stay on topic.

 

[serpentdove]

[Slavery] "[God's] followers were ordered to take slaves..."

God gave laws against slavery (Ex. 21:16). If you would like to discuss the treatment of God's enemies in a time of war that is a different topic.

"I'm a stickler for historical accuracy."

Then you can see that those who value life still have work to do. They do not distort history. They make a good comparison between the evils of slavery and the evils of abortion.

"Probably I'm splitting hairs too much..."

Perhaps you recognize that you are not in the position to make moral judgments. You reject God's moral authority.

[Compromise, Child-Killing Regulation] "You would consider that the only possible legitimate criticism of the pro-life movement?"

There may be legitimate criticisms of the pro-life movement.

"When [abortion] happens and you are personally exposed to its reality you don't pose a child's corpse, manhandle it, use it as a prop, and leave it in the garbage."

Abortion is a tragedy. The Christian coming upon the body of a slain Child has the first hands that ever treated him with care. It's too late to offer help of course.

"That, to me, is a grotesque, twisted, sick, macabre violation of everything the movement's supposed to stand for."

I guess the difference is, Christians look at the world truthfully and try to bring awareness to the abortion issue.

"Give the child a proper burial. What about this concept is so hard for you to understand?"

For the abortionist, a proper burial is the garbage bin. It's not hard to understand that the child should receive a proper burial. I would agree under normal circumstances. But doctors throwing babies into garbage bins is not normal (Ro 5:12).

 

[fool]

God gave laws against slavery (Ex. 21:16). If you would like to discuss the treatment of God's enemies in a time of war that is a different topic.

Why is it a diferent topic?
We're talking about slaying infants, your God commands that, how is that a different topic?

Then you can see that those who value life still have work to do.

Will always have work to do.

They do not distort history. They make a good comparison between the evils of slavery and the evils of abortion.

There is no comparison, the slaves were drug in chains, the Jews were herded at gunpoint, but young mothers walk right past pictures of what's about to happen to their baby into the clinic, there is no comparison.

Perhaps you recognize that you are not in the position to make moral judgments. You reject God's moral authority.

God rejects mine, so here's me and him rejecting each others authority, now what? I guess we fight, only he never shows up.

There may be legitimate criticisms of the pro-life movement.

That's why we take from each other what gives us strength and we discuss our differences without letting those differences bring us to blows.

Abortion is a tragedy. The Christian coming upon the body of a slain Child has the first hands that ever treated him with care. It's too late to offer help of course.

Tiller was killed in a Church, he was an usher.

I guess the difference is, Christians look at the world truthfully and try to bring awareness to the abortion issue.

Tiller was killed in a church, he was an usher

For the abortionist, a proper burial is the garbage bin.

Actually an incinerator, they're just hanging out in the garbage waiting for the haz-mat truck.

It's not hard to understand that the child should receive a proper burial.

That would just encourage the funeral industry, do we really need to bury everyone? What exactly is the point?

I would agree under normal circumstances. But doctors throwing babies into garbage bins is not normal (Ro 5:12).

It's apparently pretty frequent.

 

[Bob Enyart]

What IS this world coming to...

What IS this world coming to...

GENTLEMEN PLEASE!
Let's settle down in here you guys are knocking the pictures of the walls in the other forums.
Bob; Granite is anti-abortion.
Granite; Bob is not a coward.

Now, let's try to discuss things like rational men...

What IS this world coming to when fool has to be the voice of reason?

Granite: "Bobby, if you had any idea what the world you were talking about you'd know full well I've never supported abortion."​

I didn't say that you supported abortion Granite, though I understand that you could read it that way. I said that you support child killers.

Is my accusation wrong? Granite, can you name any politicians who authorize the intentional killing of any children, whom you have supported?

Granite: "As for the burials you mention, while a fine concept, I have never witnessed one, heard of one, or had anyone claim they actually occur."​

Happens whenever such children are found by pro-lifers. This past year I was asked if I could speak (but there was a conflict) at a pro-life cemetery for the unborn at 6739 S. Boulder Road in Boulder Colorado, just up the road from our BEL studio (nestled in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains) during a 40 Days for Life event.

And about perhaps the most famous of all aborted children, from my dear friend Flip Benham, "We buried Malachi at the Cemetery of the Innocents in Dallas, Texas... The funeral was held at the mammoth front portico of the Dallas City Hall."

From the NY times two weeks ago: "Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, archbishop of Chicago, presided over a funeral for around 2,000 of the fetuses. Activists buried many others."

And in Detroit, "More 'Dumpster' babies buried after Livonia clinic find... graveside ceremony for the aborted babies, whose remains are in the small white casket at lower right. ... The remains of seven more aborted babies were given a Christian funeral and burial June 27, the result of Citizens for a Pro-Life Society's investigations of just what local abortion clinics are throwing out in their trash. This time the remains were of babies found in the trash behind the Women's Advisory Clinic on Six Mile Road... Auxiliary Bishop John Quinn presided at their funeral... approximately 500 people who nearly filled the church for the funeral Mass."

Granite: Never. If such burials take place it'd be interesting to know where these children are buried. I doubt we're talking formal plots (something I suggested earlier in the thread, if you'd actually bothered to pay attention and stop lying through your teeth), but some kind of dignified rest is better than none at all.​

So Granite, these examples are from my life right up the street from BEL, from my friend Flip's life, from the New York Times this month, from Detroit with an auxiliary Bishop presiding.

Granite: "Bobby Adolph, let's be clear on one thing:"​

Yes, my name. I was named after my grandfather, Adolph Galluccio, and my uncle, Adolph Galluccio. My uncle supports child killing politicians and is therefore guilty and will hopefully ask God for forgiveness. My grandfather prayed with me just a month before he died, something he had resisted doing for 25 years, but finally humbled himself to thank God for making him, and to ask Jesus Christ to forgive him. So there's one thing that we can be clear on. No? Now as for Adolf Coors, I'm not clear on who he was named after .

And Granite, of course, you can call into the show most any weekday. And I don't tend to hang up on, or even rush, people who disagree with me. Just ask fool.

-Bob Enyart
KGOV.com & AmericanRTL.org
1-800-8Enyart

 

[Granite]

Perhaps you recognize that you are not in the position to make moral judgments. You reject God's moral authority.

:yawn: Spare me and stay on topic.

There may be legitimate criticisms of the pro-life movement.

Well, at last. That was like pulling teeth.

Abortion is a tragedy. The Christian coming upon the body of a slain Child has the first hands that ever treated him with care. It's too late to offer help of course.

All very true. But just because you're the first to care about her or him doesn't mean their remains are yours to do with as you see fit. There is a very simple, dignified thing to do. I don't see why I need to spell this out.

For the abortionist, a proper burial is the garbage bin. It's not hard to understand that the child should receive a proper burial. I would agree under normal circumstances. But doctors throwing babies into garbage bins is not normal.

...which is why we, as advocates for the unborn, should provide them dignified rest as opposed to using them as props for a photo shoot. Are you deliberately being dense?

 

[Granite]

What IS this world coming to when fool has to be the voice of reason?

Well, let's see. If you had a clue, you'd know he was a reasonable guy.:chuckle:

I didn't say that you supported abortion Granite, though I understand that you could read it that way. I said that you support child killers.

...which is, again, a complete lie.

Happens whenever such children are found by pro-lifers. This past year I was asked if I could speak (but there was a conflict) at a pro-life cemetery for the unborn at 6739 S. Boulder Road in Boulder Colorado, just up the road from our BEL studio (nestled in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains) during a 40 Days for Life event.

I'm extremely pleased to hear such activities are documented. We need more of them.

And Granite, of course, you can call into the show most any weekday.

Right, because that's such a neutral, even playing field. Nope, don't think I'd waste my time.

And I don't tend to hang up on, or even rush, people who disagree with me.

No, you just talk over them, yell, and tell them what they "really" think. No thanks.

As for your middle name! Thanks for the verification (although I must say this kind of irony really cracks me up). Poor Jefferson tripped over himself after he thought I made that up. That said, I'll remove the second line of my signature.

:cheers:

 

[Aimiel]

60,000 murders, by one man. Sad. :nono:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/27/abortion.war/index.html?eref=rss_us

 

[serpentdove]

"We're talking about slaying infants, your God commands that, how is that a different topic?"

Slaying the infants of God's enemies or slaying innocent life (e.g. abortion)?

God commands the death of his enemies--that's a good thing. Why do you side with them? God forbids the death of innocent life (Deut 19:10)--that's a bad thing. God has the right to take life because he created life. Man does not have the right to take life unless commanded by God (e.g. for: murder, adultery, sodomy, rape, kidnapping, fornication, witchcraft, prophesying falsely, or propagating false doctrines, etc.) It is his universe. He gets to make the rules.

"...[Y]oung mothers walk right past pictures of what's about to happen to their baby into the clinic, there is no comparison."

Are you saying that they should not see the pictures if they are planning to murder their baby?

"God rejects [my moral authority]...so here's me and him rejecting each others authority, now what? I guess we fight, only he never shows up."

Being an atheist, you are your own god. But don't be deceived. God is not mocked (Ga 6:7). Read the book--he wins (Re 20:15).

"Tiller was killed in a Church, he was an usher."

Tiller died as he lived (Enyart).

[Abortion] "It's apparently pretty frequent."

That doesn't make it right (Pr 8:36).

 

[serpentdove]

"...[J]ust because you're the first to care about her or him doesn't mean their remains are yours to do with as you see fit."

You would prefer that the world not see what is being done?

"There is a very simple, dignified thing to do."

If you faced them one day, would you tell them that? What do you think they would say to you?

"Are you deliberately being dense?"

No. There are many children who should be alive today and are not.

 

[Granite]

Answer my question: are their remains yours to do with as you see fit?

If you faced them one day, would you tell them that? What do you think they would say to you?

They might ask why so many people left them in the garbage and took pictures of them there, among other things. Or they might asked why they were treated like props. "I gave you a burial and gave you a decency and dignity in death that others denied you" wouldn't be something I would be ashamed of.

 

[serpentdove]

"[A]re their remains yours to do with as you see fit?"

After being left in a trash bin, I think that they would want their remains shown to the world to prevent another baby from suffering. They know that their body will be joined with their spirit again one day (Phil. 3:21). But until that day, they are concerned with God's plans not your discomfort.

[What would they say?] "They might ask why so many people left them in the garbage and took pictures of them there, among other things. Or they might asked why they were treated like props. "I gave you a burial and gave you a decency and dignity in death that others denied you" wouldn't be something I would be ashamed of."

You only seem concerned that pro-lifers are bringing light to fact that wicked men murder babies and throw them out like trash. Every baby bears God's image (Gen. 9:6; Col. 3:10). You throw God out of your life so why would you care if those made in his image are thrown out? I don't think you give a damn about the baby. I think that your desires are the same as the desires of your father (Jn 8:44).

What happens to granite when you hit it with a hammer?
:hammer:

 

[fool]

Originally Posted by fool
"We're talking about slaying infants, your God commands that, how is that a different topic?"

Slaying the infants of God's enemies or slaying innocent life (e.g. abortion)?

God commands the death of his enemies--that's a good thing. Why do you side with them? God forbids the death of innocent life (Deut 19:10)--that's a bad thing. God has the right to take life because he created life. Man does not have the right to take life unless commanded by God (e.g. for: murder, adultery, sodomy, rape, kidnapping, fornication, witchcraft, prophesying falsely, or propagating false doctrines, etc.) It is his universe. He gets to make the rules.

Wrong, you see He doesn't exist so he dosen't get to make anything, all the people killed in God's name were murdered by humans for human reasons. That is all.

Originally Posted by fool
"...[Y]oung mothers walk right past pictures of what's about to happen to their baby into the clinic, there is no comparison."

Are you saying that they should not see the pictures if they are planning to murder their baby?

No genius, how could you come to that conclusion from what I wrote? go back and try again.

Originally Posted by fool
"God rejects [my moral authority]...so here's me and him rejecting each others authority, now what? I guess we fight, only he never shows up."

Being an atheist, you are your own god. But don't be deceived. God is not mocked (Ga 6:7). Read the book--he wins (Re 20:15).

Wrong, he dosen't win because he dosen't exist.

Originally Posted by fool
"Tiller was killed in a Church, he was an usher."

Tiller died as he lived (Enyart).

Not soon enough, and where was your God on that one? Did God strike Tiller down? No? I didn't think so.

Originally Posted by fool
[Abortion] "It's apparently pretty frequent."

That doesn't make it right (Pr 8:36).

Unless of course your God told Tiller to kill 60,000 people, then you'd be all Okay with it.

 

[fool]

What happens to granite when you hit it with a hammer?
:hammer:

Nothing, what happens to a serpentdove when you drop a boulder on it?

 

[Granite]

After being left in a trash bin, I think that they would want their remains shown to the world to prevent another baby from suffering.

That's your opinion, and that's nice. But playing hypotheticals doesn't really interest me. Are their dead, mutilated, discarded bodies your property to do with as you see fit? Yes or no.

You throw God out of your life so why would you care if those made in his image are thrown out? I don't think you give a damn about the baby.

And I don't really give a half-baked damn what someone like you thinks of someone like me. We done with this urinating contest now?