Abortion Photos Real, NY Times Fake

[Granite]

And now for the Mouth That Roared and the Ego That Belched...

Granite, they are defenseless and dead because of those like you who support child killers.

Bobby, if you had any idea what the world you were talking about you'd know full well I've never supported abortion. Not for an instant. You and your sycophants confuse questioning tactics with supporting abortion, which is, simply put, an asinine leap of illogic.

If the pro-life community can't question the tactics of others within the movement without being accused of being abortion supporters, the movement's completely lost. I suspect, however, that this is exactly your point: browbeat those who disagree with you and attempt to hijack the movement.

And after having been killed en masse by the child killers you fawn all over, then, by the thousands, they have been lovingly buried, by the thousands, by Christian pro-lifers.

This is to be blunt a completely insulting lie. If you can name one child killer I've ever "fawned over," be my guest. Otherwise you're simply bearing false witness, but then again, I suspect lying comes rather easily to you.

As for the burials you mention, while a fine concept, I have never witnessed one, heard of one, or had anyone claim they actually occur. Never. If such burials take place it'd be interesting to know where these children are buried. I doubt we're talking formal plots (something I suggested earlier in the thread, if you'd actually bothered to pay attention and stop lying through your teeth), but some kind of dignified rest is better than none at all.

Clete, thanks for your excellent rebuttal of this wicked man.

Bobby Adolph, let's be clear on one thing: I'm well aware of your track record and what you leave in your wake. Well aware of what you've done, and what you're capable of. You're not fooling me, pal. We agree that abortion is murder; we disagree on the best ways to combat it. Your ego got stung and, stupidly, but predictably, you can't see beyond that.

Clete made some idiotic claims about history, got his facts wrong, and once I pointed out he didn't know what he was talking about, he bailed on this thread. At heart, he's a coward. Just like you are.

A coward, and a white-washed tomb. Among other things.

 

[fool]

GENTLEMEN PLEASE!
Let's settle down in here you guys are knocking the pictures of the walls in the other forums.
Bob; Granite is anti-abortion.
Granite; Bob is not a coward.

Now, let's try to discuss things like rational men with a common goal, we have our differences but if we focus on the differences then we go down the path of self defeat.
Granite; what kind of sign would you take to a protest?
Bob; what, if anything, would you consider to be "over the top"?

 

[Granite]

GENTLEMEN PLEASE!
Let's settle down in here you guys are knocking the pictures of the walls in the other forums.
Bob; Granite is anti-abortion.
Granite; Bob is not a coward.

Now, let's try to discuss things like rational men with a common goal, we have our differences but if we focus on the differences then we go down the path of self defeat.
Granite; what kind of sign would you take to a protest?
Bob; what, if anything, would you consider to be "over the top"?

:chuckle:

All right, all right. Fair enough. Guess I may be getting cranky in my old age...

What kind of signs? I've always favored the "Face It: Abortion Kills!" black and white with the photo of the baby below the slogan. Simple, direct, to the point, and a reminder of what we're really fighting for and about.

We are supposed to celebrating and honoring life, yes?

Carrying around pictures of corpses is, seems to me, rather counter-intuitive to that goal.

 

[serpentdove]

"Where do these pictures come from? Presumably from pro-lifers digging through trash. They then pose the corpses of dead children...Handle the dead bodies of these children...Presumably--hopefully--provide these children a burial...Then parade the pictures of the defenseless dead in broad daylight...Victims of abortion are posed, splayed, degraded, and
cheapened by those who are left to speak for them. For shock value. Shocking, yes. And for all the wrong reasons. Pretty sad state of affairs."

The people who took these photos of aborted babies did go through the trash. They were "knee deep in blood", Bob Enyart said on his radio program (BEL). They took these pictures to educate people about the horrors of abortion. I understand that they left the babies in the trash so that so that they could return another day without suspicion to gather more evidence.

In World War II General Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, saw the genocidal death camps as they marched into Western Germany. "General Eisenhower understood that many people would be unable to comprehend the full scope of this horror. He also understood that any human deeds that were so utterly evil might eventually be challenged or even denied as being literally unbelievable. For these reasons he ordered that all the civilian news media and military combat camera units be required to visit the camps and record their observations in print, pictures and film. As he explained to General Marshall, “I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to ‘propaganda.’...” full text: Ike and the Death Camps http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/stories/death-camps.htm

Those who take pictures of aborted babies are on the right. Those who take pictures of dead soldiers returning home from war in body bags are on the left. There is a big difference (Eccl 10:2). The right understands evil. The left doesn't. Those on the right are often the ones getting knee deep in blood in a stand against evil (Josh 24:15).

The ones who deny the holocaust are often the ones wishing to repeat it. The ones who are offended by pictures of aborted fetuses want to protect their ability to commit sexual sin and kill another day.

Is it difficult to look at these pictures? Yes. If your conscience is not seared you wish to do something about it (1 Ti 4:2). Why don't you take a long, hard look into the face of evil? Whether you know it or not, we are in a spiritual battle (2 Cor 10:4-5). There is a winning side and a loosing side. Ask yourself which side you're on.

 

[Granite]

The people who took these photos of aborted babies did go through the trash. They were "knee deep in blood", Bob Enyart said on his radio program (BEL). They took these pictures to educate people about the horrors of abortion. I understand that they left the babies in the trash so that so that they could return another day without suspicion to gather more evidence.

In World War II General Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, saw the genocidal death camps as they marched into Western Germany. "General Eisenhower understood that many people would be unable to comprehend the full scope of this horror. He also understood that any human deeds that were so utterly evil might eventually be challenged or even denied as being literally unbelievable. For these reasons he ordered that all the civilian news media and military combat camera units be required to visit the camps and record their observations in print, pictures and film. As he explained to General Marshall, “I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to ‘propaganda.’...” full text: Ike and the Death Camps http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/stories/death-camps.htm

Those who take pictures of aborted babies are on the right. Those who take pictures of dead soldiers returning home from war in body bags are on the left. There is a big difference (Eccl 10:2). The right understands evil. The left doesn't. Those on the right are often the ones getting knee deep in blood in a stand against evil (Josh 24:15).

The ones who deny the holocaust are often the ones wishing to repeat it. The ones who are offended by pictures of aborted fetuses want to protect their ability to commit sexual sin and kill another day.

Is it difficult to look at these pictures? Yes. If your conscience is not seared you wish to do something about it (1 Ti 4:2). Why don't you take a long, hard look into the face of evil? Whether you know it or not, we are in a spiritual battle (2 Cor 10:4-5). There is a winning side and a loosing side. Ask yourself which side you're on.

Hi serpentdove.

As I'm sure you know, pictures of aborted children have been taken for decades by those within the pro-life movement. Enyart's activities aren't the first of their kind (although this does explain why he seems to be taking any questioning of it so personally). This is not an attack on Bob Enyart or anyone associated with his church: I'm questioning the validity of the tactic no matter who does it. It raises some extremely distasteful questions about the sanctity of the dead, respect for their remains, and the best dignified way to pay respects for these strangers. Handling and posing corpses of murdered children seems, in my mind, to be two shades away from grave robbery or something equally ghoulish.

I'm sure the author of Ecclesiastes was quite unaware of 21st century American political distinctions (that are for the most part useless anyway). Kind of a silly comment on your part.

Now, I'm offended that the bodies of dead children are exploited, posed, and manhandled, but for reason of my own that I keep on having to repeat on throughout this thread. Your own demented explanation for why I'd be disturbed by the implications of the pictures (let alone the pictures themselves, which I've seen since a child) says a lot more about you than it does about me. My conscience isn't "seared" by evidence of child murder; my spirit is distressed by the state of the pro-life movement and those who claim to speak for these murdered infants. Handling their body parts for the sake of furthering a political agenda via shock value is grotesquely disrespectful, to say the very least.

 

[serpentdove]

"I'm questioning the validity of the tactic..."

Do you also question Ike's tactics?

"It raises some extremely distasteful questions about the sanctity of the dead, respect for their remains, and the best dignified way to pay respects for these strangers. Handling and posing corpses of murdered children seems, in my mind, to be two shades away from grave robbery or something equally ghoulish....I'm offended that the bodies of dead children are exploited, posed, and manhandled..."

The children are dead. If you are so concerned for their bodies, why don't you engage in the battle before the doctors take knifes and drills and suction tools to their bodies.

"Ecclesiastes...Kind of a silly comment on your part."

Of course it is. We've been over this. You are so interested in other's opinions except when they quote the Bible--which shapes their opinion.

"My conscience isn't "seared" by evidence of child murder; my spirit is distressed by the state of the pro-life movement and those who claim to speak for these murdered infants. Handling their body parts for the sake of furthering a political agenda via shock value is grotesquely disrespectful, to say the very least."

You are "distressed" at those attempting to bring light to this evil? You prefer darkness? (Jn 3:19).

 

[fool]

:chuckle:

All right, all right. Fair enough. Guess I may be getting cranky in my old age...

What kind of signs? I've always favored the "Face It: Abortion Kills!" black and white with the photo of the baby below the slogan. Simple, direct, to the point, and a reminder of what we're really fighting for and about.

We are supposed to celebrating and honoring life, yes?

Carrying around pictures of corpses is, seems to me, rather counter-intuitive to that goal.

I would probably blow up my avatar picture for a sign, it's such a great shot due, I believe, mostly to the lighting but the expression is priceless as well.

Now, some folks would rightly point out that my avatar is a full term baby and alot of the women having abortions don't consider their baby to be a baby, they think it's a "blob" because they have to dehumanize it before they can kill it.
In order to combat the "blob" mentality I think it is important that the humanity of the unborn is illustrated for people, so they can see the tiny hands and feet that are instantly recognizable even if they're smaller than a tic-tac.

Now, having said that I can totally see your point that some of the pictures out there are geared towards maximum shock value, I think that is counter productive because it desensitizes the population, I would'nt want my kids to see that sort of stuff so frequently that they were'nt shocked by it anymore.

Perhaps the dismembered corpse photos should be black and white? The imagination usually provides more blood than the eyes can register.

 

[lightbringer]

Hi serpentdove.

As I'm sure you know, pictures of aborted children have been taken for decades by those within the pro-life movement. Enyart's activities aren't the first of their kind (although this does explain why he seems to be taking any questioning of it so personally). This is not an attack on Bob Enyart or anyone associated with his church: I'm questioning the validity of the tactic no matter who does it. It raises some extremely distasteful questions about the sanctity of the dead, respect for their remains, and the best dignified way to pay respects for these strangers. Handling and posing corpses of murdered children seems, in my mind, to be two shades away from grave robbery or something equally ghoulish.

I'm sure the author of Ecclesiastes was quite unaware of 21st century American political distinctions (that are for the most part useless anyway). Kind of a silly comment on your part.

Now, I'm offended that the bodies of dead children are exploited, posed, and manhandled, but for reason of my own that I keep on having to repeat on throughout this thread. Your own demented explanation for why I'd be disturbed by the implications of the pictures (let alone the pictures themselves, which I've seen since a child) says a lot more about you than it does about me. My conscience isn't "seared" by evidence of child murder; my spirit is distressed by the state of the pro-life movement and those who claim to speak for these murdered infants. Handling their body parts for the sake of furthering a political agenda via shock value is grotesquely disrespectful, to say the very least.

:thumb:

 

[fool]

The Air Corp knew about the death camps in 1944, they begged FDR to let them bomb the train tracks going to them but he felt the factories were more improtant.
I don't mention this to malign FDR, he doubtless had hundreds of equally horrific dilemas to deal with. But, let's stop pretending that it was news when Ike sent the reporters there.

 

[serpentdove]

"[L]et's stop pretending that it was news when Ike sent the reporters there..."

Why would it be news? It's just a few million Jews being murdered and some pictures to prove it. :idunno:

 

[serpentdove]

GENTLEMEN PLEASE!
Let's settle down in here you guys are knocking the pictures of the walls in the other forums.
Bob; Granite is anti-abortion.
Granite; Bob is not a coward.

Fool is Switzerland.

 

[fool]

Why would it be news? It's just a few million Jews being murdered and some pictures to prove it. :idunno:

Do you think the American people would have clamoured for a different stratagy if they had known what the Air Corp knew?

 

[fool]

Fool is Switzerland.

Hmm, mountains, cheese, I can be Switzerland.
I wonder if I can yodel.......

 

[Delmar]

If your mother was raped and tortured to death would you carry around a picture of her nude, violated body to show your support for the death penalty?

Not a nude photo, but if the government refused to prosecute her murderer, I would do something to get people's attention!

 

[serpentdove]

Do you think the American people would have clamoured for a different stratagy if they had known what the Air Corp knew?

The point is America waited too long to get involved--like we are doing now in the next struggle which is fighting for the lives of the unborn.

People like Granite prefer covering up evil so that they can sleep well at night. They are offended--not by murder--but by looking at the evidence of murder. Granite knows that murder is wrong. He even says he is opposed to abortion. But he's got to add some nice words to show that he cares. He must pretend that it is the corpse he cares about (as if that keeps him up at night). He is supposedly offended that pro-lifers are dishonoring the corpse--all the while forgetting why the baby is now a corpse.

Liberals want to sound good. They don't want to be good (Mt 6:33). Pro-lifers which to expose evil so that people will do something about it. Secret sin on earth is open scandal in heaven (J. Vernon McGee).

 

[Granite]

Do you also question Ike's tactics?

No, but as I already pointed out to Jefferson earlier, no analogy's ever perfect. Different situation, different time, different atrocity. Abortion's appalling enough without constantly needing to compare it to something else. It really isn't like any other past atrocity; it is especially horrific.

The children are dead.

Is the implication that being dead they are yours to do with as you see fit?

If you are so concerned for their bodies, why don't you engage in the battle before the doctors take knifes and drills and suction tools to their bodies.

Mister, you have no idea what I do and to presume otherwise is, to be kind, outrageously arrogant on your part.

You are "distressed" at those attempting to bring light to this evil?

There are better, more appropriate, and more effective ways to do so.

You're succumbing to what I call pro-life McCarthyism: unless someone agrees with you point by point, they're suddenly not anti-abortion enough, or "secretly" pro-choice. Disagreements over tactics does not constitute support for abortion.

What's so hard about that to understand?

 

[Lighthouse]

I would probably blow up my avatar picture for a sign, it's such a great shot due, I believe, mostly to the lighting but the expression is priceless as well.

Now, some folks would rightly point out that my avatar is a full term baby and alot of the women having abortions don't consider their baby to be a baby, they think it's a "blob" because they have to dehumanize it before they can kill it.
In order to combat the "blob" mentality I think it is important that the humanity of the unborn is illustrated for people, so they can see the tiny hands and feet that are instantly recognizable even if they're smaller than a tic-tac.

So a sonogram picture?

Hmm, mountains, cheese, I can be Switzerland.
I wonder if I can yodel.......

Don't forget the hot chocolate. And you probably like the bikini team too, don't you?

 

[fool]

So a sonogram picture?

Maybe one of those three dee color sonogram pictures, the old school ones are kinda hard to make out, it makes more sense when you're sitting there watching the live feed and you can see him kicking his legs and sucking his thumb, then it gets freaky when they press down and they measure the brain and look at the heart beating.

Don't forget the hot chocolate. And you probably like the bikini team too, don't you?

Who dosen't like a bikini team!

 

[Jefferson]

The increase in social tension has always been a necessity before any meaningful change takes place. The fact that pro-life graphic protests increase social tension (even among fellow pro-lifers like Granite) more than any other pro-life tactic is inspiration for me to keep on protesting with my graphic signs. The more they complain, the more inspired I get. Thank you Granite!

 

[LightSon]

The increase in social tension has always been a necessity before any meaningful change takes place. The fact that pro-life graphic protests increase social tension (even among fellow pro-lifers like Granite) more than any other pro-life tactic is inspiration for me to keep on protesting with my graphic signs. The more they complain, the more inspired I get. Thank you Granite!

A fair point.

This whole discussion makes me sick. As a rule, such photos and discussions ought to be beyond the pale. But abortion is beyond the pale. Why should caring pro-lifers have to "make nice" while society sticks its head in the sand, or worse, condones infanticide? Extreme situations call for extreme responses. Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire. And this is all so very sad.