Abortion-a crying shame. (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Crow
- Start date
The Partial Birth Abortion ban is not much of a ban at all:
In what can only be described as the mildest abortion restrictions that one could possibly put into words, Sec.1531 instructs the "doctor" to make sure and kill the child before "in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother". Or "in the case of breech presentation", make sure the child is killed before "any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother". (Actual text of SB S.3 in quotes)
With toothless restrictions like that, it is highly unlikely that even a single life will be saved. The only thing this will do is to make sure all the children are killed before the "entire fetal head" or the "fetal trunk past the navel" is showing. We waited thirty years for this?
Partial Birth Abortion ban - THE BETRAYAL IS NOW COMPLETE
In what can only be described as the mildest abortion restrictions that one could possibly put into words, Sec.1531 instructs the "doctor" to make sure and kill the child before "in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother". Or "in the case of breech presentation", make sure the child is killed before "any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother". (Actual text of SB S.3 in quotes)
With toothless restrictions like that, it is highly unlikely that even a single life will be saved. The only thing this will do is to make sure all the children are killed before the "entire fetal head" or the "fetal trunk past the navel" is showing. We waited thirty years for this?
Partial Birth Abortion ban - THE BETRAYAL IS NOW COMPLETE
Christine
New member
You say all this despite the evidence Imrahil has provided showing how many Democrats supported the bill. Also, many Republicans were against the bill. When are you going to face the reality that the Republican party is not the conservative, family values friendly, pro-life political party you're trying to paint it to be?
Neither. Someone isn't simply "pro-life" due to passing a partial birth abortion ban. Many people are against partial birth abortions, but are not against other forms of abortion such as those occuring earlier in a pregnancy. It is a possibility that President Bush could have signed it just to get votes.
Human Abortion and Male Chauvinism
With regard to the social causes of human abortion, we understand the following:
1. Women rarely if ever plan to get pregnant in order to have an abortion, and rarely do women ever
regard human abortion as an intrinsic good. Rather, women most often view abortion as tragic and
undesirable.
2. Most abortions occur in situations where the woman is not married to the man who made her
pregnant; or in some instances, where a marriage suffers stress to the point where the husband does
not want the child to be born.
3. In most abortion choices, some man is pressuring the woman to have the abortion, whether overtly
or subtly.
4. In cases where the woman is made pregnant by a boyfriend, if he would support her, especially by
means of faithful marriage, she would likely keep the child.
5. Apart from the evil of rape or incest, women who get pregnant out of wedlock are complicitous to
one degree or another; however, the man possesses the power to forsake her in her pregnancy.
6. In such instances, the male chauvinism pressures the woman to a) embrace the courage and
sacrifice of single motherhood, usually with financial duress; b) to embrace the courage and sacrifice
of adopting the child out; or c) to reify and abandon the child to abortion, much as the
man who impregnated her has reified and abandoned her to begin with.
7. Abortion is thus the ultimate male chauvinism, consistent with pornographic views of women;
where such men regard women as sexual objects, who if made pregnant, are discarded as broken
toys, sent off to be aborted, so they can be played with once again.
8. Accordingly, “abortion-rights� do not serve women – rather it is most often a ruse for male
chauvinists to trample women and children.
The Power to Choose Life:
With regard to the social causes of human abortion, we understand the following:
1. Women rarely if ever plan to get pregnant in order to have an abortion, and rarely do women ever
regard human abortion as an intrinsic good. Rather, women most often view abortion as tragic and
undesirable.
2. Most abortions occur in situations where the woman is not married to the man who made her
pregnant; or in some instances, where a marriage suffers stress to the point where the husband does
not want the child to be born.
3. In most abortion choices, some man is pressuring the woman to have the abortion, whether overtly
or subtly.
4. In cases where the woman is made pregnant by a boyfriend, if he would support her, especially by
means of faithful marriage, she would likely keep the child.
5. Apart from the evil of rape or incest, women who get pregnant out of wedlock are complicitous to
one degree or another; however, the man possesses the power to forsake her in her pregnancy.
6. In such instances, the male chauvinism pressures the woman to a) embrace the courage and
sacrifice of single motherhood, usually with financial duress; b) to embrace the courage and sacrifice
of adopting the child out; or c) to reify and abandon the child to abortion, much as the
man who impregnated her has reified and abandoned her to begin with.
7. Abortion is thus the ultimate male chauvinism, consistent with pornographic views of women;
where such men regard women as sexual objects, who if made pregnant, are discarded as broken
toys, sent off to be aborted, so they can be played with once again.
8. Accordingly, “abortion-rights� do not serve women – rather it is most often a ruse for male
chauvinists to trample women and children.
The Power to Choose Life:
Two or three politicians that won't go along with the Party Line on abortion, is hardly enough evidence to prove the Republicans are Pro-Abortion and the Democrats are Pro-Life as you wrongfully suggest.
Posted by Christine:
You're missing the obvious, Democrat and Republican Party platforms clearly present their positions on abortion. Republicans are Pro-Life and Democrats are Pro-Abortion. Why you insist on ignoring the obvious escapes me.
Women know they can continue to be sexually promiscuous and abort the unintended consequences.
Posted by Anne:
Sluts continue to shack up with unsavory men who are happy to take advantage of morally weak women. Men (sic) who lack moral character and principles will look for the "easy" way out of tough situations.
Posted by Anne:
Two moral midgets faced with a moral dilemma will choose the unprincipled way around it.
Posted by Anne:
"Faithful marriage"... LOL. These hedonists can't spell faithful, let alone practice it.
Posted by Anne:
These kinds of men (sic) do not find big bellyed women sexually attractive and move on. Women who dance with the devil wind up paying the price. Their moral character was buried long ago.
Posted by Anne:
Slutish behavior will bring unwanted consequences. Base individuals will pursue the moral path of least resistance. Without morals, without courage, the baby is doomed to be torn apart by another moral midget, the abortionist.
Posted by Anne:
Not all men are morally challenged as you suggest. There are women who find men of character boring and uninspiring. They seek to walk on the wild side, playing with fire and wondering why they were burned.
Posted by Anne:
Abortion rights was the key-stone of the feminist movement. Abandoning traditional morality, this band of vipers set about convincing women they could have it all, sexual promiscuity without consequences. Women need to take responsibility for their own moral character. You have the right to act like a women of character or a tramp. Which will it be?
Christine
New member
While I don't have the list (I think Imrahil might), we're not just talking about two or three politicians. We're talking about a large number of them.
Just because someone says they are going to vote pro-life doesn't mean they actually vote pro-life. Politicians will often say anything to "get a vote." I'm not denying that some in the Republican party still are pro-life, but I doubt that's the majority (I'm referring to Republican politicians, not registered Republican voters) are actually full blown pro-lifer's.You're missing the obvious, Democrat and Republican Party platforms clearly present their positions on abortion. Republicans are Pro-Life and Democrats are Pro-Abortion. Why you insist on ignoring the obvious escapes me.
Listen, that's a straight up lie. Peddle your lies at your next Democrat committee meeting. You are a Democrat trouble maker afflicted with Moore's desease.
Posted by Christine:
Your doubts are pathetic. Don't let the TRUTH get in your way. You must be a DEANIAC. Save it Leroy.... :madmad:
The truth is that both candidates are members of the same blue-blooded secret fraternity. The choice is between Baal and Molech. Thing One or Thing Two. Tweedledum or Tweedledee (you can decide who's Dee or Dum).
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
This election's a farce. The world's biggest and most expensive reality show. Every four years we get to vote someone off the island, or the tribe decides to keep 'em around a little while longer.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
This election's a farce. The world's biggest and most expensive reality show. Every four years we get to vote someone off the island, or the tribe decides to keep 'em around a little while longer.
Now let me add my two cents worth.
Both the Democratic and the Republican party are rampant with fools and the wicked. While the Republican party is less ideologically evil than the Democratic party, both suck.
Republicans, such as our President, G.W. Bush, often support abortion in the case of rape and incest. What did the baby do to deserve a capital sentence?
Y'all want to cannonize the Republican party, AD, that's your business. But when you jump all over a young lady who has her head on straight and has only pointed out the obvious, that is crassness personified. You've hit far from the mark on your evaluation of Christine. And the Republican party. Republican politicians are out there working on their backs just like the Democrats right now, saying what they think we want to hear so that they might get our votes. And not necessarily planning on delivering.
I usually vote for Republicans, although not always. I can appreciate that most of them show stronger support for the right to bear arms and the right to life, the right to keep the money you earn and not throw it away on entitlement programs, and several other issues. I appreciate their stance on national defence. But I also keep a healthy sense that I am voting for a politician. And that standing under the banner of being a Republican doesn't mean squat.
Okay, they both suck, agreed. So why make the best the enemy of the good? How many times did I factually say the Republican Party is on record as being Pro-life. And proved it by passing the "Partial Birth" abortion ban over the objections of the stone cold pro-abortion Democrats. Why be contentious over this issue. Give the Republican Party its due and move on. Why beat a dead horse over the fact that not "all" Republicans are pro-life? There was enough to pass the ban on "Partial Birth" abortion that's all.
Posted by Crow:
Okay fine, I am for abortion only to protect the life of the mother. GW, is a typical United Methodist with lots of grey areas. I don't agree with his opinion here but is that enough to vote for Kerry who supports "partial Birth abortion? Give me break. Why all the hand wringing over GW? With all his faults there is no adequate alternative. The lesser of two evils. I hang with the Republicans for one reason: their stand on abortion.
Posted by Crow:
It's not my business to cannonize any Political Party. As far as pointing out the obvious, where did that ever happen? My remarks on the Republican Party went straight to the heart of the issue of abortion. Again, I never implied that the all Republicans are Pro-life, just that the majority of the Republicans are pro-life. Enough to pass pro-life legislation. Christine may have her head on straight but why pick on the issue that NOT ALL Republicans are Pro-life. So what? The majority of Democrats are Pro-abortion even though there may be a hand full of Pro-life Democrats. Again, so what? What's the point?
Posted by Crow:
Listen Crow, I support the Republican Party for three good reasons, their stand on the abortion issue, homosexual marriage, and the Second Amendment. Standing under the banner of either Party means more than you know. Control over the Senate is determined by raw numbers. . The Party in the majority controls the Senate and the agenda for the Senate. Remember "jumpin Jim Jeffords from Vermont? He was a Republican but changed to an independent which threw controll of the Senate back to the Democrats. One more or less in party affiliation made all the difference in the world.
I don't know Christine, but if she is pro-life why all the fuss about not having a lock-step band of brothers in the Republicn Party on the issue of abortion? It just did not make any sense to me. What you perceived as crassness was merely frustration at not meeting eye to eye on the Republican vs. Democrat stand on abortion. Nuff said.
Christine
New member
I am NOT a democrat. I'm a pro-life, conservative, who has "seen the light" about the Republican party.
I'm not letting the TRUTH get in my way. Why don't you behave yourself and debate politely? Otherwise, I'll have good reason to walk off from this little discussion we've been having.
I don't wear rose colored glasses when it comes to evaluating politicians or politics in general. My honest evaluation of the Republican Party as of now, (it may change if they change) is that by and large the Republican Party is clearly Pro-life. The Democrat Party is beyond all doubt clearly pro-abortion with few exceptions. Am I over stating the political party's positions on abortion?
Christine, you claim to have "seen the light" re: the Republican Party. Exactly what has this light exposed to you about the Republican Party?
Posted by Chrtistine:
I respect your assertion that you are a "pro-life" conservative. Under the circumstances, calling you a Democrat was certainly hurtful and I apologize. I promise to be on my best behavior in future discussions. I stand corrected.