Why would God need a hell?

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Mickiel

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I must admit
not wanting anyone to suffer
makes you a better christian
than
all the others who seem to want eternal suffering



I am not a Christian, and I don't believe that Christians hold a monopoly on belief in God, nor do I view Christianity as the model for belief in God. I don't have " Christian on the mind." I don't worship Christianity. I don't believe any religion on earth is the model for God, not in my view. Not from what I see in scripture.
 

chrysostom

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I am not a Christian, and I don't believe that Christians hold a monopoly on belief in God, nor do I view Christianity as the model for belief in God. I don't have " Christian on the mind." I don't worship Christianity. I don't believe any religion on earth is the model for God, not in my view. Not from what I see in scripture.

thanks for clearing that up
so
what else do you believe?
 

Mickiel

New member
thanks for clearing that up
so
what else do you believe?

I don't mind answering any of your questions, and I notice that you ask a lot, which I think is a good thing, but asking what else I believe, that answer would just be too long.

I believe in the bible being the word of God , and it is not inerrant in my view; it has some mistranslations in it. The Christian view of hell is one good example of a people going off of mistranslations to form doctrines. But I have seen Christianity form doctrines without any biblical support, like the Trinity.

I am not a Universalist, but I agree with some things they believe.
I am not a Jehovah's Witness, but I agree with some things they believe. I am not an Atheist, but I agree with some things they believe. I am not a scientist, but I agree with some things they believe. I am not a Christian, but I believe in a few things they believe.

I really walk alone in my belief.
 

Mickiel

New member
what is going to happen to those who can't get along?
if
you are not an universalist?


They will be changed by God into a new creation, all the negative things you see in them will be gone; the bible calls it " Being Born Again." Everyone will get along after that. This new birth, this changing of human nature, is the destiny of all of humanity. It is the duty of religion to teach this destiny " Is not for everyone, only for a few." So the real enemy of the cross, is religions that teach this limited future for humanity. A most stunning reversal of what I thought the world of belief would be; believers who teach eternal hell are more of a roadblock to salvation than Atheist and unbelievers are!
 

serpentdove

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[Obama is Gog (Eze 38:3)] Why does the verse you post never have anything to do with the question I ask?

:yawn: Let the reader decide (Eph 4:14). :peach:

obamagog3096894569874598645986759486.png
 

Mickiel

New member
How dare a believer in God, turn around and believe in eternal hell punishing; how dare you! Were discussing " God" here! God!

See this is WHY I say that many believers just don't know God, like they love to claim they do; to know God is to know what he will do and why. And when you put serious stuff on God that he is not going to do, then you are just off track in your belief. God is not going to punish humans for eternity, that is just a horrible misconception; you don't know what you are believing; you don't realize how long eternity is! Your belief is crippling the world of unbelievers who Jesus came here to save!

In 1 Corinth. 13th chapter is listed all the proof of universal salvation needed, " To the mind that is not seduced away from it!" Gods Love! Now Paul was discussing human love mostly, but if you multiply it to infinity, then you can " Begin to imagine God's Love." Love suffers Long! That means no matter how long it takes to bring an unbeliever to repentance, God will take that time.

God's Love is not easily provoked; it thinks no evil about his plans; God does not rejoice in sin; Listen, God bears ALL things, endures all things, ( this means no situation that believers in God can imagine that could cancel another humans salvation is valid; because most believers in God like to limit his salvation as much as they righteously can), God believes all things concerning our salvation and hopes all things for us--- THATS REAL LOVE!

God's Love NEVER fails! Oh many Christians will teach you that his love has failed to help millions of unbelievers; they have no faith in universal salvation, no hope for it and no love for it. They can't see that God is universal! His ways are universal. His Love is universal. His mercy and grace is universal; explain to yourself why then his real gospel would not be universal? What's wrong with that picture?

The biblical forecast for all of humanity is good and acceptable to God, who WILL have ALL men to be saved! 1Tim.2:3-4. Its just not good and acceptable to religion, they have accepted hell as the future of unbelievers. The truth has been seriously tainted and redecorated to look like something other than the expressed will of God.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Let us dive in again...........

Let us dive in again...........

do you have any reason to believe everyone will ultimately accept love?

From a universalist perspective, all souls ultimately return to 'God' (thru any and by all means).

From a specifically 'Chrsitian Universalist' perspective,...all are made alive in Christ, all are redeemed by Christ, so 'Christ' is naturally the saving personality, power or instrument being used to draw all men unto himself.

On a metaphysical level, if 'God' is always already the one universal all-pervading absolute reality,...then reality is what always IS, no matter what else arises to challenge or reject it. Absolute Reality IS what IS. - hence the classical attributes of 'God' as 'omnipresent', 'omnipotent' and 'omniscience' holds, as long as we consider what is 'absolute' (timelessly, eternally, infinitely BEING). So,...on this level there is only 'God',...no other. There is not two (this is pure 'non-duality). God Only. God is All There IS, essentially....absolutely. - all 'else' are just 'appearances' and forms'.

Only on relative(dualistic) levels of human perception, distortion, error, ignorance...is the absolute reality obscured, diminished, distorted, fragmented, etc. If an individual human soul or ego suffers from ignorance of any kind, that suffering is in the distortion-field of the mind alone, in the sense of separation, imperfection, a mistaken view, not seeing the whole truth that God IS. 'God' alone is the whole truth, the Only ONE that IS, here, now, always. There is no 'outside' of God in reality. Hence no 'seperation', anywhere, anywhen. A presumed 'seperation' could only be if the soul suffers from the false-perceptions of the ego (by any means), or undergoes a death where it is no longer ever conscious as a funcitioning entity.

Another kicker is 'free will', as you know....if we truly have any measure of free will, and if this freedom of choice allows us to become 'seperate' from God. Well, the mind itself with all its egoic viewpoints and limited perspectives, is prone to illusion/delusion of many kinds. But whether we can of our own free wills, choose to be divorced from reality to the degree that we ourselves become 'unreal', 'non-existent', no longer alive (conscious), suffering a final and eternal death, is another matter (assuming that some souls may so fully embrace iniquity as to reap the full harvest of such which is non-existence). In 'conditional immortality',...some souls do DIE. They are no more. They become dis-integrated, terminated, ....they PERISH. - they forfeited their opportunities for survival, for fulfilling their life-purpose. They have truly become 'exhausted'.

So,...there are many different streams to explore :)
 
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serpentdove

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"When believers actually plan on people being in their hell..."
:yawn: God decides who goes to hell (Ro 9:18).

"...In 1 Corinth. 12:6 it states that God " Works ALL in ALL."


And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all [1 Cor. 12:6].

"There are diversities of operations—that is, of the energy. But it is the same God who works in all, and He is the One who works in the believer.

This reminds us that there is but one God—but He is a Trinity. The Trinity works together; there is a unity. But there is a diversity in unity. Notice this: The Holy Spirit bestows the gifts; the Lord Jesus Christ administers the gifts—they are under His direction; the Father God supplies the power, and He energizes the gifts. All of this is for the one purpose of exalting and glorifying the lordship of Jesus Christ." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (1 Corinthians) (electronic ed., Vol. 44, pp. 139–140). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
 

Mickiel

New member
Many believers in God do not see this world being reconciled to him, they believe many will be lost. They think that Jesus is only reconciling those who accept him to himself, not the world. They believe this because they ignore scripture and believe only what inticed their ears. In 2Corinth. 5:19" To wit, God was in Christ , reconciling THE WORLD unto himself, not counting their sins against them." This effectively saves everyone, something many believers in God just do not want. God is not even counting the sins of the world against them; that ought to be the first sentence in every sermon!

But the truth in the bible does not control the media in this world, religion does.
 

serpentdove

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"How dare a believer in God, turn around and believe in eternal hell punishing; how dare you!"
:yawn: We dare to believe the truth. :poly:

See:

Hell


"1Tim.2:3-4. It's just not good and acceptable to religion, they have accepted hell as the future of unbelievers."
"1 Ti 2:3 God our Savior See note on Titus 1:3.
1 Ti 2:4 who wants all people to be saved See note on v. 1. In contrast to the elitist rhetoric of false teachers within the community—who sought to exclude certain people from the gospel—Paul emphasizes that God wishes for all people to be saved. Paul’s statement does not mean all people will be saved (compare 3:6; 4:10).
Tit 1:3 his message Refers to the gospel message (see v. 9).
1 Ti 2:1 petitions The word deēsis refers to requests made on the basis of urgency or need. Sometimes these requests are made on behalf of others as an act of intercession (see Luke 22:32; Acts 8:24). Believers demonstrate their dependence on God and love for others through intercession. Intercession also presents believers with an opportunity to show their unity." Barry, J. D., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible (1 Ti 2:1). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.
 

Mickiel

New member
God has said that he wants all saved, in Num. 23:19," God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man that he should repent, Has God said something that he will not do? Has he spoken it, and shall not make it good?"

God has spoken that he has not willed any to perish; hey, this whole thing is God's, its not the Christians; its God; what he says will be!
 

Mickiel

New member
Here is good news for unbelievers and those who reject Christ; your not doomed, there is hope for you! In 1 John 4:14, I am testifying to you that the Father God sent his Son Jesus, to BE the Savior of THE WORLD!"

Glory to God on high!

He sent Jesus to save every human; what a great love! What a wonderful truth.
 

Mickiel

New member
Explain to yourself why you think the bible keeps calling Jesus, " The Savior of the World!" John 4:42. Maybe its a serious mistake? Maybe a misprint!

How can Jesus be called the Savior of the World, IF he does not save the world??

That means we all have to be saved for that title to be correct. But its a title that many believers in God, simply don't accept! They reject that title wholeheartedly. In their minds, they already have millions of humans in their hell that they will not release, just so Jesus can have a title. No, their going to keep those humans in their hell, because they believe they really belong there, and that title does not really belong to Christ.
 

Timotheos

New member
A few housekeeping items:
animated-smileys-housekeeping-157.gif


Yawn :)yawn:) is short for fallacious argument.

I see. It just makes you look tired.

Let me ask you a simple question.
In Luke 13:3 Jesus Christ said "unless you repent, you will likewise perish". What do you believe is the fate of those who refuse to repent? Do you believe that they will perish or do you believe that they will experience eternal conscious torment in hell?
 

Mickiel

New member
Let me ask the Christian statistics keepers a question; I know you can't tell us how many people you are projecting to be in your hell, but can you give us a guess? Let me help you by offering this, there are over 7 billion humans alive now. I read one estimate as to how many humans have ever lived, it guestimated 3 trillion, 999billion, 99 million and 856 thousand humans have ever lived. Lets use a system of mercy that allows only half of those humans to go to your hell; that would be around 1.5 trillion, 450 billion,45 million and 423 thousand humans to suffer forever in your hell. And I know a lot of you may get upset with me letting half of humanity " Make it", because you may be guessing less than that.

That's a lot of people!

God save us from your hell beliefs! Your projecting a lot of misery; your choking the gospel of good news.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Let me ask the Christian statistics keepers a question; I know you can't tell us how many people you are projecting to be in your hell, but can you give us a guess? Let me help you by offering this, there are over 7 billion humans alive now. I read one estimate as to how many humans have ever lived, it guestimated 3 trillion, 999billion, 99 million and 856 thousand humans have ever lived. Lets use a system of mercy that allows only half of those humans to go to your hell; that would be around 1.5 trillion, 450 billion,45 million and 423 thousand humans to suffer forever in your hell. And I know a lot of you may get upset with me letting half of humanity " Make it", because you may be guessing less than that.

That's a lot of people!

God save us from your hell beliefs! Your projecting a lot of misery; your choking the gospel of good news.
lets see what Jesus said :sherlock:
Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Mat 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Beware of Mickiel
Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
 

Mickiel

New member
Beware of Mickiel
Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.



I am not a prophet, I am a retired disabled senior; I am a sinner in search of knowledge of its God; I have not progressed beyond that point. In my adult age, I have never presented myself to be anything that I am not. I am not a prophet and I am not a sheep, my only reference book in this thread has been the bible, and over 450 verses.

So your accusations fall on deaf ears.
 
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