Why would God need a hell?

[serpentdove]

[The gospel] Of course its sick, and goes to show you just how deep the sickness has penertrated into the bloodstream of Christianity; they are hooked to it like fish and won't let go of it.

He's not just our Lord. He's our big brother. You didn't know every Christian has a big brother? Heb 2:12, Re 6:10 opcorn:

 

[Lon]

Other means I am not any of the listed. I am not in any religion, I walk alone in my belief, but some believe similar to some things I accept. I just do not accept hell as a solution designed by God, but by religious men. The true reputation of the Kingdom of God has suffered violence by misinformed men who actually believe; Matt. 11:12, and the worst of that violence, in my view, is this doctrine of eternal hell punishing. Its violent; do they know how long eternity really is?

Its like believing that God would punish humans alive for 900 million years, multiplied by another 10 trillion years of unheard of existence, and still the suffering has just only began. Its insane! For 70 years of sinning, I get 999,888,777 quadrillion years of misery, and its only just starting. No, no, I will never accept that God would allow such a thing, and this has turned many, many humans off from God. I don't care how bad sin is, its not worth all that misery.

They'd be more miserable, rejecting God, to have to live with the One they despise for all eternity. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too, while hating the one who owns it all. You aren't as logical or as moral as you place yourself to be and so you need to be challenged on your only solution/conclusion you've allowed *("God HAS to be like I expect or I won't accept Him!"). We either accept God, as He is and as scripture reveals, or we make an idol-god in our own image, after our own appetites.

I and you need to change to God's image, not He ours. That is why we are in the mess we are in, trying to make God jump through dog and pony hoops to bow to the fallible but self-exalting foils of men. You said "Christians will hate" something you wrote. :nono: But you will deny this. You are 'rationalizing.' (that means you are trying to remake something uncomfortable, comfortable by removing what offends, so it fits you comfortably and acceptably). That is all Universalism ever is: "Making a 'better' god in my image." Every cult starts with a fabricated man-made version of god, that they then, not satisfied with self, go out and try to sell to others. If I truly believed what you believed, I'd not even worry about what others think and waste my time on debate because NOTHING matters if it were true. There is no point to even bringing it up. But you don't truly believe it. Nor do any other Universalists who feel 'compelled' to sell something that they think is going to happen whether I buy today or not. This isn't the god you are looking for, because in the end, it is only you. Seek rather, the God who exists that we must be changed, not Him. Then you will have the right one.

 

[serpentdove]

Jesus said he came NOT to " Call" the righteous, (or believers)...

We are called to believe. "Believe in the original language means "to be convinced"..." Full text: Amour of the Lord

This is good news for people like me who don't know God; Jesus came " To Call" us too!

What are you waiting for? 2 Co 6:2 Some sin you're clinging to? :Shimei: Jn 8:34 Better respond before you no longer can respond. Ge 6:3, Ro 9:18

I know many Christians don't like this and will seek to dismiss it...

You think we prefer having reprobates :banana: for neighbors? :dizzy:

...Christianity does not control this massive calling of God.

God doesn't need our help (Ac 17:25). He graciously allows us to play a part in his plan.

Why would God need a hell when he plans on calling everyone?

Why will plan to go there? Hell wasn't created for you. Mt 25:41

...A stunning promise from Jesus which fills me with hope when Christians look to dim that hope.

Why do you have hope when by your own admission you are an unbeliever? Jn 3:36 :burnlib:

 

[daqq]

They'd be more miserable, rejecting God, to have to live with the One they despise for all eternity. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too, while hating the one who owns it all.

Who are you to say that the OP hates God when clearly the OP has said otherwise here in this thread? And what is worse off is that you, as a Calvinist, believe it is the sovereign will of God that such a one should perish in his supposed condition, which condition is actually only according to your own personal judgment because you have made yourself the Judge in the place of God. You do not even believe the OP has the free will opportunity to change. That is insane.

 

[oatmeal]

I agree hell is the grave. The Old Testament mentions hell 31 times, each of those times it means " Sheol", the Hebrew for grave, and nobody in the OT is ever threatened with eternal hell punishing as a result from sin, no one. Hell is mentioned 23 times in the NT, 12 times its Geena, a physical valley outside of Jerusalem in Hinnom. 10 times its Hades, still the grave. 1 time its Tartaros , in 2 Pet. 2:4, and that is a place for demons, not humans.

This teaching on eternal hell suffering has gotten out of hand and it spreaded like wild fire. It does not even match anything that God would do. But it got pinned on God.

You have learned valuable truths

It is refreshing to see.

 

[oatmeal]

Here's something Jesus taught that I embrace, which cancels out the Christian hell; Matt. 24:21, " For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, " Nor shall ever be!" This tribulation will occur before Christ returns, and Jesus taught that it will be worse than anything ever was in human history, and nothing to come would ever compare to it. Nothing in the future can be as bad; that cancels out eternal suffering, because if it were true, NOTHING could ever be worse than that!

Eternal misery would far surpass the tribulation; and I embrace this teaching of Jesus.

Good logic!

The grave is simply the place where dead bodies are put. The common misconception of eternal fiery punishment is way out of line from scripture

 

[oatmeal]

Jesus did NOT speak about a literal fiery place where people are consciously roasted forever. That is ridiculous. His story about "The Rich Man and Lazarus" was a METAPHORICAL PARABLE, with not a literal thing in it. Hell-fire does not exist. Only in the minds of ogres and sadists.

Wherever "fire" is mentioned in Jesus' teachings, it usually means TOTAL DESTRUCTION. That is what "Gehenna" means, and he used that word several times in Matthew: chapter 5:22,29,30; chapter 10:28; chapter 18:9; chapter 23:15,33. Most of us know what Gehenna was in his day....a garbage dump outside the city. Trash and even criminals were thrown there. What happened to this stuff? It all burned up INTO NOTHING. The focus isn't on the fire in the dump, but what happened to the trash and bodies thrown there---NON-EXISTENCE.

A person has to do some research to see just which words are being translated into "hell." Sometimes it's "Hades," sometimes it's "Gehenna." Once even it's "Tartarus." All these words have different meanings, yet the King James renders them ALL as "hell."

There is no place like what Dante imagined in his popular Inferno. No fire where people must stay and suffer forever. What would be the point of roasting someone forever? There is no hope of an end to it. It certainly isn't for discipline so the person will change. There is no point, except for the delight of sick people.

The Greek word "Hades" has always been known to mean "the grave." Translators screwed people's understanding up when they jumbled all the words together which mean different things. When Jesus spoke of "the fire prepared for the devil & his angels," that was associated with "Hades" because "Gehenna" had been translated as "Hell" along with "Hades." Gehenna, the fire prepared..., and the lake of fire all mean ANNIHILATION. But the church focused on the "fire" instead of the end results of the fire. They told people that the fire was literal. It is not.

Some versions today use the original words, Hades & Gehenna. It would be a good thing to find these versions and have them in our personal libraries.

I agree, nice post!

 

[ok doser]

You don't like the notion of hell therefore you cherry pick the bible for passages that you can twist like pretzels into substantiating universal reconciliation all the while totally ignoring passages that clearly dispute your claims.

:thumb:

 

[Nick M]

Does God need a garbage dump for humans?

Uh, yes. He does.

 

[Nick M]

Why would God need a place like this traditional eternal hell? Why would he co-exist with such a place in eternity? Does God need a garbage dump for humans?

 

[SonOfCaleb]

I view God differently, in Isaiah 57:16, God speaking; , " I will not contend forever, neither will I always be angry." Jer. 3:12 repeats this known fact about God; he will allow nothing to contend forever, effectively canceling out the Christian hell.

See, some Christians just like limiting the salvation of God, its called " Limited Atonement;" or shutting off the Kingdom from men. Jesus saw this uncanny spirit in Matt. 23:13, " But woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you " Shut up the Kingdom of heaven from men", meaning these believers teach doctrines that section off salvation and make it into some kind of clique or club.

What religious denomination are you? ..... You seem quite well versed with the Bible....

 

[False Prophet]

The eternal question of children:
why? why? why?

 

[Mickiel]

Why would a God need a hell? I mean its obvious that we can see that Christians need for there to be a hell, its a big part of their religion; but what does God need it for? Why would he even need a place like that?

Lets imagine what hell would be like;

Well all humans there must live forever; while standing up on their legs. Eternal suffering while standing up, unless God gives them sitting breaks; so everyone in hell will have legs like the incredible hulk. They must be able to breathe in fire, swim in fire, and burn but never combust; kind of like a human torch. That's it, these poor humans in hell must be recreated into " Super sufferers!" Able to endure this incredible madness without ever going insane; so God must give them super minds! You know, the ability to endure this pain without passing out; what fun is it to torture people who are unconscious?

Are they going to be allowed to eat? Who's going to feed them, angels? What kind of food? A pop sickle? Are they going to be allowed a social life in hell? Living quarters? Do we force them to work? What will they wear, any clothes or just naked? I just know after 999 trillion years of this existence, some of these super sufferers might just develop an attitude and be mad, so we must post guards to keep them locked in; we would not want any of them getting out, now would we?

What about counseling? Hey, after 768,987,532,999,675,888 billion years , these poor humans may need someone to talk to about this arcane punishment.

Or do we just lock them into a totally different dimension , throw away the key and just leave them to themselves and the suffering? Let them counsel each other in misery.

And you think a God would do something like this?

Please, get real!

 

[Mickiel]

What religious denomination are you? ..... You seem quite well versed with the Bible....

I am not in any religion; I walk alone in my belief.

 

[chrysostom]

God doesn't need hell
but
there are a lot of christians who do

they want you to suffer

how christian is that?

 

[Mickiel]

God doesn't need hell
but
there are a lot of christians who do

they want you to suffer

how christian is that?

It seems to be the Christian way of thinking. I agree with God in all the things he does, but I disagree with eternal suffering of humans. I don't believe for a minute that God will allow that, but the Christian mind does agree with it, because they think God will allow it. I think they got it wrong, they may be good intentioned, but they seem to not be able to equate just how long eternity is.

The fire of God actually saves people, in 1 Corinth. 3:15, " If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved, by fire!" Here the fire of God saves people, its benefical, so the lake of fire is not the Christian hell. Jesus said we all must be salted with fire! Or seasoned with it. Mark 9:49.

 

[patrick jane]

It seems to be the Christian way of thinking. I agree with God in all the things he does, but I disagree with eternal suffering of humans. I don't believe for a minute that God will allow that, but the Christian mind does agree with it, because they think God will allow it. I think they got it wrong, they may be good intentioned, but they seem to not be able to equate just how long eternity is.

The fire of God actually saves people, in 1 Corinth. 3:15, " If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved, by fire!" Here the fire of God saves people, its benefical, so the lake of fire is not the Christian hell. Jesus said we all must be salted with fire! Or seasoned with it. Mark 9:49.

View attachment 21214

 

[Dialogos]

The fire of God actually saves people, in 1 Corinth. 3:15, " If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved, by fire!"

Most translations have "through" fire because most translators aren't trying to eisegete the word of God like you do.

Here the fire of God saves people,

Nope.

:nono:

Look at the context.

The fire burns away what is consumable (the works of the flesh) and the man whose works are fleshly suffer loss because of that fire. The fire then reveals what eternal (if the person is actually saved).

The fire doesn't save the flesh, it destroys it.

...its benefical, so the lake of fire is not the Christian hell. Jesus said we all must be salted with fire! Or seasoned with it. Mark 9:49.

Is the devil himself now being salted with fire according to Mark 9?

"And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,
10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev 20:9-10 ESV)​

:doh:

No, what the bible actually says is that they will be tormented day and night forever and ever in the same lake of fire that God throws unbelievers into.

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

(Rev 20:15-21:1 ESV)
​

So, explain to us all how you believe that the lake of fire that torments the devil saves those whose names aren't written in the book of life.

 

[Nick M]

And you think a God would do something like this?

Please, get real!

Let the idiot parade begin.

 

[Mickiel]

Jesus in John 12:47, again Jesus teaching, If any man hear my words and believe not, I judge him NOT; for I came not to judge the world, but to save it." Here Jesus is NOT judging unbelievers, people who reject him, but he is saving them, and the whole world of them. This is good news for those who reject Christ, they are not being judged. Oh Christianity is judging them, condemning them, but Christianity does not count in this great salvation.

No hell fire is needed if judgment is not needed.

Christianity is really a stumbling block to salvation , full of hell fire preachers; they will argue for the condemnation of unbelievers, as they pettle their hell. Its the greatest stumbling block to humans seeing this great salvation that I have ever seen.