Why would God need a hell?

[patrick jane]

Lon, what if a nonbeliever has lived in a South American tribe all his life, and never had contact with the outside world, and therefore never heard of God? Is that still rejecting him?

I've asked that question for years. Would you believe that more than one Christian has said - "they're going to hell"

 

[Mickiel]

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The term " Contempt" here means disgrace, it is not a threat to be punished forever. Nobody in the entire OT was ever taught that if they sinned and were not forgiven, they would go to a place of eternal torment. Its not in there. Why would God ignore the entire OT IF eternal punishing were true?

Makes no sense at all.

 

[KingdomRose]

Why would God need a place like this traditional eternal hell? Why would he co-exist with such a place in eternity? Does God need a garbage dump for humans? How and when did the grave become the traditional explination of hell?

God does not need a place like the teaching of Hell-fire. He would not torture someone forever without any hope for them of it stopping. What would be the point? They aren't going to change, so it's not any form of DISCIPLINE. It would be only to satisfy some debased need to look on the mindless torture of someone, to hear their screams and watch their flesh sizzle. It's sick! And this goes on for eternity?? No. That's nothing thought up by God. It's a dream of beasts and ghouls.

I commented on hell = the grave in my previous post.

 

[Hedshaker]

Then explain virulent atheists who bristle and rage at the very mention of a nonexistent God.

Haven't met any, unless you mean atheists who take umbrage when having God talk rammed down their throats. Not saying the aren't any, it's a pretty diverse world, just saying, compared to Fundamentalist Christians they seem like a pretty calm bunch to me.

Maybe if you could explain what you mean by "atheists who bristle and rage at the very mention of a nonexistent God." ?

 

[way 2 go]

Lon, what if a nonbeliever has lived in a South American tribe all his life, and never had contact with the outside world, and therefore never heard of God? Is that still rejecting him?

depends on whether they reject the creation

Rom 1:20 For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.

 

[Mickiel]

Jesus did NOT speak about a literal fiery place where people are consciously roasted forever. That is ridiculous. His story about "The Rich Man and Lazarus" was a METAPHORICAL PARABLE, with not a literal thing in it. Hell-fire does not exist. Only in the minds of ogres and sadists.

Wherever "fire" is mentioned in Jesus' teachings, it usually means TOTAL DESTRUCTION. That is what "Gehenna" means, and he used that word several times in Matthew: chapter 5:22,29,30; chapter 10:28; chapter 18:9; chapter 23:15,33. Most of us know what Gehenna was in his day....a garbage dump outside the city. Trash and even criminals were thrown there. What happened to this stuff? It all burned up INTO NOTHING. The focus isn't on the fire in the dump, but what happened to the trash and bodies thrown there---NON-EXISTENCE.

A person has to do some research to see just which words are being translated into "hell." Sometimes it's "Hades," sometimes it's "Gehenna." Once even it's "Tartarus." All these words have different meanings, yet the King James renders them ALL as "hell."

There is no place like what Dante imagined in his popular Inferno. No fire where people must stay and suffer forever. What would be the point of roasting someone forever? There is no hope of an end to it. It certainly isn't for discipline so the person will change. There is no point, except for the delight of sick people.

The Greek word "Hades" has always been known to mean "the grave." Translators screwed people's understanding up when they jumbled all the words together which mean different things. When Jesus spoke of "the fire prepared for the devil & his angels," that was associated with "Hades" because "Gehenna" had been translated as "Hell" along with "Hades." Gehenna, the fire prepared..., and the lake of fire all mean ANNIHILATION. But the church focused on the "fire" instead of the end results of the fire. They told people that the fire was literal. It is not.

Some versions today use the original words, Hades & Gehenna. It would be a good thing to find these versions and have them in our personal libraries.

Nice post.

 

[KingdomRose]

I agree hell is the grave. The Old Testament mentions hell 31 times, each of those times it means " Sheol", the Hebrew for grave, and nobody in the OT is ever threatened with eternal hell punishing as a result from sin, no one. Hell is mentioned 23 times in the NT, 12 times its Geena, a physical valley outside of Jerusalem in Hinnom. 10 times its Hades, still the grave. 1 time its Tartaros , in 2 Pet. 2:4, and that is a place for demons, not humans.

This teaching on eternal hell suffering has gotten out of hand and it spreaded like wild fire. It does not even match anything that God would do. But it got pinned on God.

I agree with everything you've said so far on this thread.:thumb:

 

[Mickiel]

God does not need a place like the teaching of Hell-fire. He would not torture someone forever without any hope for them of it stopping. What would be the point? They aren't going to change, so it's not any form of DISCIPLINE. It would be only to satisfy some debased need to look on the mindless torture of someone, to hear their screams and watch their flesh sizzle. It's sick! And this goes on for eternity?? No. That's nothing thought up by God. It's a dream of beasts and ghouls.

I commented on hell = the grave in my previous post.

Of course its sick, and goes to show you just how deep the sickness has penertrated into the bloodstream of Christianity; they are hooked to it like fish and won't let go of it.

 

[Greg Jennings]

depends on whether they reject the creation

Rom 1:20 For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.

Am I to understand that you're telling me if you had been born into a village with no contact with the outside world, you would've just inexplicably seen the world as the Christian God's (of whom you'd never heard of) creation? Without ever glancing at even a Bible's cover?

 

[KingdomRose]

Once you exist in God's creation, you are there! And you will exist forever in one place or the other. You can't even escape God in hell!

Oh come on, bsmitts. Be for real. Evil people that will not change will simply be put right back into the condition they were in before they were conceived in their mother's womb---non-existence.

Can you remember anything for the untold billions of years before you were born on Earth? Why do you think people can't be in that same state after their life on Earth? The Bible does not say that our souls or spirits are immortal.

 

[Mickiel]

Am I to understand that you're telling me if you had been born into a village with no contact with the outside world, you would've just inexplicably seen the world as the Christian God's (of whom you'd never heard of) creation? Without ever glancing at even a Bible's cover?

I would not let a Christian explain the biblical message , they think too much in terms of destruction, and they do not represent God; they just like to think they do. There is no condemnation for any human, no matter what situation you think of ; God is not willing, ( nor has he willed), for ANY to perish, under no conditions!

 

[way 2 go]

The term " Contempt" here means disgrace, it is not a threat to be punished forever. Nobody in the entire OT was ever taught that if they sinned and were not forgiven, they would go to a place of eternal torment. Its not in there. Why would God ignore the entire OT IF eternal punishing were true?

Makes no sense at all.

there will definitely be contempt in hell, forever

 

[KingdomRose]

He had 70 years to decide he hates God. The better question is: Why would he want to live with a God he has rejected all his life? He clearly doesn't. Where can he go? The only place left.

NO! That's crazy! It can be determined that hell-fire does not exist. What is left? ANNIHILATION. OBLITERATION. DESTRUCTION. NON-EXISTENCE. Back to just how he was before he was born.

:chuckle:

 

[KingdomRose]

Nice post.

Thank you. I've enjoyed yours also.

 

[KingdomRose]

there will definitely be contempt in hell, forever

What are you talking about? I almost laugh. People who believe that "hell" has eternal fire, and the lake of fire is "hell," fail to notice that "hell" is THROWN INTO the lake of fire. Aha! What does that mean???

If you thought about it, you might start thinking....Gee that isn't possible---hell being thrown into itself. Maybe there is a deeper meaning there. Uh....could it be that "hell" will be DESTROYED in the SYMBOLIC lake of fire?

Oooo then "hell" will NOT last forever!!!

 

[Mickiel]

there will definitely be contempt in hell, forever

I view God differently, in Isaiah 57:16, God speaking; , " I will not contend forever, neither will I always be angry." Jer. 3:12 repeats this known fact about God; he will allow nothing to contend forever, effectively canceling out the Christian hell.

See, some Christians just like limiting the salvation of God, its called " Limited Atonement;" or shutting off the Kingdom from men. Jesus saw this uncanny spirit in Matt. 23:13, " But woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you " Shut up the Kingdom of heaven from men", meaning these believers teach doctrines that section off salvation and make it into some kind of clique or club.

 

[way 2 go]

Am I to understand that you're telling me if you had been born into a village with no contact with the outside world, you would've just inexplicably seen the world as the Christian God's (of whom you'd never heard of) creation? Without ever glancing at even a Bible's cover?

God will be just

Rom 1:19 because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them.

 

[Dialogos]

Yes, that place they have left, its my view that Christianity created it, not God. The human that rejects God, needs God far more than believers do; they need his Mercy, Love, Forgiveness and renewal, they don't need the Christian hell...

They don't need a hell.

Unfortunately (for you) God doesn't care what you think they need or what you think He should do. I am pretty sure if God wanted your opinion, He would have asked.

You should probably care less about what you think God should do and start caring more about what God has said He is going to do with those who refuse repentance and reject Christ as Lord.

If you reject Christ in this life you have only yourself to blame.

If you ignored the "dead end, cliff ahead" signs on a road and instead decide to go 90 miles per hour until you drive your car off the cliff, you can blame the guy who posted the sign, lament the unfairness of it all or plead with gravity that what you need isn't a fatal crash but a big cushion at the bottom but it won't soften the sudden stop at the end....

The best course of action is to obey the sign! before you reach the cliff.

:duh:

 

[way 2 go]

What are you talking about? I almost laugh. People who believe that "hell" has eternal fire, and the lake of fire is "hell," fail to notice that "hell" is THROWN INTO the lake of fire. Aha! What does that mean???

If you thought about it, you might start thinking....Gee that isn't possible---hell being thrown into itself. Maybe there is a deeper meaning there. Uh....could it be that "hell" will be DESTROYED in the SYMBOLIC lake of fire?

Oooo then "hell" will NOT last forever!!!

hell is where the spirits of the departed people who do not know God go for now.

 

[quip]

your point was you did not hate fictional beings

if someone said I love you to your face and you and looked
them in the eye and then walked away that would be
hate

when you hear Jesus died for you and say you don't care
does not exist .
hate.

Indifference is far from hate.

It seems you're defensively projecting (on my behalf) my non-acceptance of your sacred belief system ...as hate.

Your attachment to such idealism seems to foster a self-administered adversary. Matthew 12:30 :idunno: