Why Sexual Assault Victims Delay Coming Forward

[Town Heretic]

Except, conveniently, none of these cases are going to court. So there's no risk in slighting an election by making last minute claims at the peak of it.

I don't know that he won't be sued and neither do you.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume they aren't going to sue him civilly. Let's further assume that whatever statutory criminal violations might have been in play are null and void as an operation of the statute of limitations having run. Imagine you're one of those women and you're telling the truth. You know you can't move a criminal charge. You're fairly sure he has enough money to paper you to death in court and ruin your finances trying to keep a single lawyer in play. All the more reason for you to advance your narrative, to take whatever satisfaction and redress harming his attempt to make America irate again can give you.

 

[Crucible]

I don't know that he won't be sued and neither do you.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume they aren't going to sue him civilly. Let's further assume that whatever statutory criminal violations might have been in play are null and void as an operation of the statute of limitations having run. Imagine you're one of those women and you're telling the truth. You know you can't move a criminal charge. You're fairly sure he has enough money to paper you to death in court and ruin your finances trying to keep a single lawyer in play. All the more reason for you to advance your narrative, to take whatever satisfaction and redress harming his attempt to make America irate again can give you.

You have a feminist running for president, who has opened the door to other feminists spreading their agenda to the election, and the result is that you have dozens of women claiming to have been sexually assaulted by her opposition.

The 'typical' factor is strong- every time such women come around, allegations explode like a pinata. You can sit there and hardly pretend to be unbiased, but the truth is that you are heavily biased just by that observation alone- you are pandering to people with a near religious commitment to make anyone they don't like into Actually Satan™.

 

[Town Heretic]

You have a feminist running for president, who has opened the door to other feminists spreading their agenda to the election,

Sure. We know Clinton is running.

and the result is that you have dozens of women claiming to have been sexually assaulted by her opposition.

No, that's your bias, your assumption. And given what Trump has said it's one that demonstrates your unwillingness to entertain anything that thwarts that bias.

The 'typical' factor is strong- every time such women come around, allegations explode like a pinata.

Citation to source, or is this you just declaring it. How many cases like this have their been? How many resulted in either criminal or civil holdings against the women or for the accused?

You can sit there and hardly pretend to be unbiased

I don't have to pretend and here's why: my opinion is that a) we can't know the truth without more evidence, b) there are two competing narratives regarding that truth, c) the claims of the women coming forward are in line with the admissions of Trump when he didn't know that he was being recorded.

It's possible that the women coming forward are liars. It's possible that the people attesting to having had some of those related to them at the time of the incidents are liars. Or, it's possible that Trump is. We can't know at this point, but dismissing the women seems the greater reach, given what we have on hand from him and what would have to be true (though it might be) about that much larger number of people without anything at present to cast objective doubt on them.

 

[Crucible]

Sure. We know Clinton is running.

The agenda has exploded into insanity over the past five years, and now you have the feminist queen running for president.
But downplay that reality all you want.

Citation to source, or is this you just declaring it. How many cases like this have their been? How many resulted in either criminal or civil holdings against the women or for the accused?

Why don't you go attend a 'slut walk', seriously. Or find out the ridiculous reason they even exist at least

It's possible that the women coming forward are liars.

But because they are women, we should allow the accusations to hinder his election lain:

Because a woman allegedly being groped thirty years ago is more important than the oval office- because forget the country, imaginations of women oppression are more important.
It's actually gotten to that point, and you still sit here denying what I've been warning you all of forever on here- exemplifying it, perpetuating it- I don't know whether to be disappointed or just :rotfl: all the way to the last cling of your shackles.

 

[Town Heretic]

The agenda has exploded into insanity over the past five years, and now you have the feminist queen running for president. But downplay that reality all you want.

I agreed that Clinton has an agenda, that she's a feminist and that she's running for the White House. I don't know why you think the last five years is particularly different and what in that downplays anything?

Why don't you go attend a 'slut walk', seriously. Or find out the ridiculous reason they even exist at least

So you make claims. I ask for support, citation to make that more than you just saying what suits you and that's your response. Unresponsive to the question.

But because they are women, we should allow the accusations to hinder his election

Anyone can make an allegation, launch lawsuit, call a press conference. But what made it possible as a hindrance was Trump. Because if he doesn't say what he said about women there's no story and no distraction.

Because a woman allegedly being groped thirty years ago is more important than the oval office

It's not about one narrative. It's about a number of them demonstrating a pattern of actionable behavior, if true.

 

[Crucible]

So you make claims. I ask for support, citation to make that more than you just saying what suits you and that's your response. Unresponsive to the question.

Most men have witnessed or heard of a woman they know accuse a man of sexual assault at least once in their life. With the more recent generations, multiple times over.
There cannot be a statistic on the matter because of what it is, and there doesn't need to be one. Because you all have embraced the infantilization of women, you all have a hard time holding them accountable to their bullcrap.

 

[Town Heretic]

Most men have witnessed or heard of a woman they know accuse a man of sexual assault at least once in their life.

That's just another declaration you won't support with citation or any serious authority.

The process so far:

We were talking about the women coming forward in the wake of the Trump tape release when Cruc declared:

The 'typical' factor is strong- every time such women come around, allegations explode like a pinata.

Citation to source, or is this you just declaring it. How many cases like this have their been? How many resulted in either criminal or civil holdings against the women or for the accused?

His response, hand to God, was this:

Why don't you go attend a 'slut walk', seriously. Or find out the ridiculous reason they even exist at least

I noted that he failed to sustain the charge with anything and he gives me the first sentence of this post in response. Yet another declaration he will not back in any substantive fashion.

His excuse? Here it comes:

There cannot be a statistic on the matter because of what it is, .

If there's no data then there's no reliable conclusion and he's essentially admitting to making it up, which anyone reading should already have understood by his answer.

And if you're wondering how he justifies that. Why, with more made up, unsupported declaration. What else can a fellow who doesn't know how to argue or research and who then has no argument or fact to rest on require?

...you all have embraced the infantilization of women, you all have a hard time holding them accountable to their bullcrap.

He doesn't need factual support because his entire understanding of the context and problem is imaginary. That's what he just told you. He doesn't need facts because--followed by a declaration that he can only sustain if you accept it without question.

Yahtzee. lain:

 

[intojoy]

I used to do what trump talked about. Never got in trouble for it.
Well that's not true. I had a bouncer tell me to leave once. How I was behaving was wrong but not enough to cause a woman to feel the need to call the cops or anything. Who knows Eeset might have been one of the victims.
No need to come forward for this kind of stuff. If I didn't think I had a shot with the girl then I wouldn't use the expedite option.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

brilliant response to all those Fake Trump victims! https://twitter.com/America_1st_/status/787450562015092736

 

[MarcATL]

Good luck with that.

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[MarcATL]

That's just another declaration you won't support with citation or any serious authority.

The process so far:

We were talking about the women coming forward in the wake of the Trump tape release when Cruc declared:


His response, hand to God, was this:


I noted that he failed to sustain the charge with anything and he gives me the first sentence of this post in response. Yet another declaration he will not back in any substantive fashion.

His excuse? Here it comes:

If there's no data then there's no reliable conclusion and he's essentially admitting to making it up, which anyone reading should already have understood by his answer.

And if you're wondering how he justifies that. Why, with more made up, unsupported declaration. What else can a fellow who doesn't know how to argue or research and who then has no argument or fact to rest on require?


He doesn't need factual support because his entire understanding of the context and problem is imaginary. That's what he just told you. He doesn't need facts because--followed by a declaration that he can only sustain if you accept it without question.

Yahtzee. lain:

Ben Carson, who I'm immensely ashamed of, declared on "Morning Joe" this week that it DOESN'T matter if the women are telling the truth or not.

#SMHGOP

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[Catholic Crusader]

How Many Rape Reports Are False?
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-09-19/how-many-rape-reports-are-false

"....A lot of statistics are floating around the Internet: Two percent, say many feminists, the same as other crimes. Twenty-five percent, say other groups who quarrel with the feminists on many issues, or maybe 40 percent......"

"......Here's what we do know: The 2 percent number is very bad and should never be cited. It apparently traces its lineage back to Susan Brownmiller's legendary "Against Our Will," and her citation for this figure is a single speech by an appellate judge before a small group of lawyers. His source for this statistic was a single area of New York that started having policewomen conduct all rape interviews. This is not data. It is an anecdote about an anecdote.

The 41 percent number beloved of men's-rights activists is better; it involves a peer-reviewed study by Eugene Kanin of a police department in some unknown small city. False reports could only be declared if the victim herself withdrew the charge......"

"......This number should be used only with grave caution. But so should any other numbers, such as the 8 percent figure that is commonly attributed to the FBI....."

"......That's not a very satisfying answer, because rape is inherently a hard crime to prosecute. If someone comes into a police station with their face bashed in, you can be pretty much certain that unless they're a professional boxer, a crime has occurred. If a rape kit shows evidence of sexual intercourse, however, all that tells you is that ... something happened. Because this is something that a lot of people do to each other voluntarily, you cannot proceed immediately to the arrest. Usually there are only two witnesses, telling different stories. Often drugs or alcohol were involved, and intoxicated people make lousy witnesses......"

Ben Carson, who I'm immensely ashamed of......

Carson is a good man and a successful brilliant man with a good moral compass. You are none of those things.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Traumatized rape victims often don't come forward. Miss America girls who are use to getting ogled are not traumatized when someone plays grab-butt with them. Get it?

Be good little Trump lemming CC and tell us how all of these women are LIARS! LIARS! LIARS! (or better yet, how they secretly wanted to be sexually molested by a pervert).

All the Allegations Women Have Made Against Trump
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...made-against-trump/ar-AAiVdBu?ocid=spartanntp

 

[Town Heretic]

Ben Carson, who I'm immensely ashamed of, declared on "Morning Joe" this week that it DOESN'T matter if the women are telling the truth or not.

I read that. His train analogy again. We need to take care of the "important" stuff first. The character of his candidate and the dignity of the people alleging violation apparently isn't that...Watching people who once called and claimed the moral high ground their own rolling in the mud at its base is just...astounding.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Be good little Trump lemming CC and tell us how all of these women are LIARS! LIARS! LIARS! (or better yet, how they secretly wanted to be sexually molested by a pervert).

All the Allegations Women Have Made Against Trump
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...made-against-trump/ar-AAiVdBu?ocid=spartanntp

You're the only pervert I see here.

 

[ClimateSanity]

I'm sure some people do lie and file false reports. The FBI believes it too. But mostly that's not what happens.

Here is the reason for a majority not being found to be false allegations:
Why is there a great concern about false allegations of sexual harassment (or other forms of harassment) when few formal complaint investigations result in findings of false allegations? Simply put, the stakes are high. There may be negative impacts on career and reputation. Potential job loss or discipline is a reality. The stress, time, effort, frustration, and financial cost take a toll on the parties. Establishing the basis for a complaint, or defending against allegations,
particularly if this entails proving a negative—that something did not happen when it is alleged it did—is often a difficult and lengthy process. The embarrassment and emotions attached to allegations and evidence can undermine even the strongest individual.

 

[Town Heretic]

Here is the reason for a majority not being found to be false allegations:

Could you sum the reason. I'm missing something in what follows.

Why is there a great concern about false allegations of sexual harassment (or other forms of harassment) when few formal complaint investigations result in findings of false allegations?

This seems to be the actual thesis, not the first part.

Simply put, the stakes are high. There may be negative impacts on career and reputation. Potential job loss or discipline is a reality. The stress, time, effort, frustration, and financial cost take a toll on the parties.

Agreed. Serious allegations have serious consequences for everyone potentially.

Establishing the basis for a complaint, or defending against allegations,
particularly if this entails proving a negative—that something did not happen when it is alleged it did—is often a difficult and lengthy process.

Except at law the presumption is innocence and the barriers tend to be difficult, as they should be.

The embarrassment and emotions attached to allegations and evidence can undermine even the strongest individual.

Also agreed. Are you saying, tying this back to the first sentence, that the allegations tend to be true because of the cost to people when they aren't? That those who come forward understand the stakes and it acts, to some extent, as a weeding process?

 

[Crucible]

That's just another declaration you won't support with citation or any serious authority.

It's impossible to make such a statistic unless a person goes door to door asking women how many times they've accused a person of sexual assault. And I wonder how that would pan out..

Use your brain, TH. It happens all the time and you are just being dishonest- which is unsurprising, because the entire thing is built on deceit.

A bunch of liars and manipulators- what I see, and what so many other men see, go ignored while you all obsess over stupid allegations that are more common today than pine cones in November.

 

[Foxfire]

How Many Rape Reports Are False?
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-09-19/how-many-rape-reports-are-false

The 41 percent number beloved of men's-rights activists is better; it involves a peer-reviewed study by Eugene Kanin of a police department in some unknown small city. False reports could only be declared if the victim herself withdrew the charge......"

"......This number should be used only with grave caution. But so should any other numbers, such as the 8 percent figure that is commonly attributed to the FBI....."

If we assume a rate of 41% false reporting, the highest percentage indicated, it would still suggest that as many as 5 or 6 of Trump's 11 (so far) accusers are likely genuine. That's no comfort.

I'm pretty sure that those studies were based primarily on 'one-off' or single accuser cases. One woman making the complaint against one man.

What are the statistics for cases involving numerous women leveling similar accusations against a single defendant? Do they follow the same percentages?

 

[ClimateSanity]

Could you sum the reason. I'm missing something in what follows.


This seems to be the actual thesis, not the first part.


Agreed. Serious allegations have serious consequences for everyone potentially.


Except at law the presumption is innocence and the barriers tend to be difficult, as they should be.


Also agreed. Are you saying, tying this back to the first sentence, that the allegations tend to be true because of the cost to people when they aren't? That those who come forward understand the stakes and it acts, to some extent, as a weeding process?

No. It went over your head