Why I love divorce

HisServant

New member
Exactly. Don't let indoctrinated pseudo-law-mongers put you under condemnation.

Thanks... it just amazes me how many people are quick to condemn people for things they think they understand in scripture and refuse to do their homework because they are afraid it might not be as cut and dry as they think.

I stay away from such people these days... you cannot argue with them because they wont give an inch because they are afraid their little world will come crashing down.
 

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
Proof please for such a wild assertion. (and its a lie... you will find out).

First, let's both look at what Jesus himself said in Matthew 9:6:

"...what God has joined together, let man not separate." (Matthew 19:6).

The context of this pronouncement is equally important, for most Jews of Jesus' day thought divorce was allowable in certain cases.

In the Book of Malachi, God says that he hated divorce.

Athenagoras, a Christian father who lived about 150 years after Jesus, contrasts Christian marriage and behavior with the "incestuous licentiousness of the pagans and their gods." For him, the only Christian options are the single life or a single marriage. Remarriage is out of the question. In other words, Athenagoras followed most other Christians back then that God designed for a man to have no more than one wife in his lifetime.

Christian polemicist Justin Martyr quoted Jesus and declared that any divorced woman should never be allowed to re-marry.

The great Jewish teacher Shammi said only infidelity (only on the part of the wife, of course) was grounds for divorce, while the liberal rabbi Hillel said divorce was permissible for just about any reason--"even if," he declared "she burn his soup."

R.M. Grant in Early Christianity and Society devotes an entire chapter to the conflict between early Christians and pagans in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries over the topic of divorce. The people who thought it was important to follow Jesus believed that divorce was forbidden. The early church father Tertullian in his Apology also advocated this same position for his Christian adherents.

P. Gorday in Principles of Patristic Excess and Romans 8-11 in Origen, John Chrysostom and Augustine clearly show the bulk of Christians not only believed in staying married but also advocated celebicy for some--even in marriage itself.

And Paul--who remained single as his life--said his bottom line was that no one should be married ("...I wish that all men were even as I myself."

Even as late as the Council of Trent in 1563 Pope Pius IV spoke about those who chose remain in virginity or celibacy than to be united in matrimony let him be anathema."

To claim the writings and behavior of early Christians to be "wild" and "a lie" when it comes to divorce clearly contradicts the efforts and research of scholars and historians who have studied the matter all their lives.

I hope you do your own research on this and don't just take my--or anyone else's--word for it.
 

HisServant

New member
First, let's both look at what Jesus himself said in Matthew 9:6:

"...what God has joined together, let man not separate." (Matthew 19:6).

The context of this pronouncement is equally important, for most Jews of Jesus' day thought divorce was allowable in certain cases.

In the Book of Malachi, God says that he hated divorce.

Athenagoras, a Christian father who lived about 150 years after Jesus, contrasts Christian marriage and behavior with the "incestuous licentiousness of the pagans and their gods." For him, the only Christian options are the single life or a single marriage. Remarriage is out of the question. In other words, Athenagoras followed most other Christians back then that God designed for a man to have no more than one wife in his lifetime.

Christian polemicist Justin Martyr quoted Jesus and declared that any divorced woman should never be allowed to re-marry.

The great Jewish teacher Shammi said only infidelity (only on the part of the wife, of course) was grounds for divorce, while the liberal rabbi Hillel said divorce was permissible for just about any reason--"even if," he declared "she burn his soup."

R.M. Grant in Early Christianity and Society devotes an entire chapter to the conflict between early Christians and pagans in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries over the topic of divorce. The people who thought it was important to follow Jesus believed that divorce was forbidden. The early church father Tertullian in his Apology also advocated this same position for his Christian adherents.

P. Gorday in Principles of Patristic Excess and Romans 8-11 in Origen, John Chrysostom and Augustine clearly show the bulk of Christians not only believed in staying married but also advocated celebicy for some--even in marriage itself.

And Paul--who remained single as his life--said his bottom line was that no one should be married ("...I wish that all men were even as I myself."

Even as late as the Council of Trent in 1563 Pope Pius IV spoke about those who chose remain in virginity or celibacy than to be united in matrimony let him be anathema."

To claim the writings and behavior of early Christians to be "wild" and "a lie" when it comes to divorce clearly contradicts the efforts and research of scholars and historians who have studied the matter all their lives.

I hope you do your own research on this and don't just take my--or anyone else's--word for it.

Sigh... you went the hearsay route and threw the evidence right out of the window.

There is no talking to people who believe evidence is irrevalent like you.

For instance, you never even acknowledged the idea of a disciplining divorce.

Also, most of your paraphrases of early church writings are wildly out of context.

Sigh.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
First, let's both look at what Jesus himself said in Matthew 9:6:

"...what God has joined together, let man not separate." (Matthew 19:6).

The context of this pronouncement is equally important, for most Jews of Jesus' day thought divorce was allowable in certain cases.

In the Book of Malachi, God says that he hated divorce.

Jesus also said divorce was never God's will. Moses permitted divorce because they were just sinful, it was too high standard for OT people.

When Jesus says He came down to fulfill the law, meaning He was sent to fulfill the way it was supposed to in the first place.

Jesus upgraded OT laws to rightful way.

so we better not go back to OT's law standards.
 

God's Truth

New member
Exactly. Don't let indoctrinated pseudo-law-mongers put you under condemnation.

The NT standard by Christ is to give a writ when putting away a spouse, just as it was in Deuteronomy 24:1-4. The penalty for adultery was death by stoning, not divorce.

A wife may not be put away for "any cause" or without a writ. We have no modern comparison for the issue being addressed in Matt. 19 and the parallels.

Men were putting away their innocent wives without a writ, branding them as adulteresses for life and leaving them to return in shame to their father's home or resort to prostitution to survive.

And anyone remarrying such a woman was then also considered an adulterer, simply because she had no writ.

It was Jesus addressing an exploited inequity of Theocratic law for a specific people group. He gave the example of what a heart should be in marriage, which was being violated by men who were greedy and lustful, and were shaming their innocent wives for life.

Jesus was addressing Jewish verbal divorce for a writ-based marriage. Paul was later addressing Roman verbal divorce for a writ-based marriage.

The issue is the verbal divorcement of putting away a spouse without a writ. The typology is Christ fulfilling written prophecy as our husband, and fulfilling all that was written as being the very Logos of God.

Our word does not and cannot disannul Him and His covenant of marriage, despite human weakness in not being able to exemplify that standard.

Psalm 40:8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart."
 

HisServant

New member
You are married now and will you ever divorce and remarry? Why or why not?

I never would have divorced in the first place if i could have prevented it or sucessfully reconciled the marriage. I would not encourage someone to remarry either. But I would not tell them to totally shut that idea out...be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and see what happens.

I would also tell them not to date or remarry until the kids have grown up and left the house....that is a formula for trouble.

They would also need to be at peace with their ex and harbor no grudges and to wish them well and mean it. If you harbor any resentment and have not fully forgiven her and yourself, you are of no use to anyone. And this takes years!

Seek out the council of your fellow Christians and get their opinions on the matter and pray, pray and pray some more.

As far as my current marriage, i would never leave her or divorce her unless she walked away like the first did. But i would also say that after being through the grinder with the first, the motivation for this marriage and how we treat each othervis vastly different from the first. We are also established in our careers, children are not an option, and we are better grounded and in tune with each other because there is a lot less pressure on us. We have never fought or so much as raised our voices at one another in 7 years. Its entirely about taking care of one another and companionship... and building each other up. I have never seen a marriage like it.
 

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
Sigh... you went the hearsay route and threw the evidence right out of the window.
I am not aware of "throwing evidence...out of the window" but perhaps I have. If you will provide factual evidence from Christian history we can go over it together....

There is no talking to people who believe evidence is irrevalent like you.
Again, what data, facts and evidence do you have that "I believe [in irrelevant] evidence"?

For instance, you never even acknowledged the idea of a disciplining divorce.
My Strong's Concordance does not list the term "disciplining divorce" in the Bible.

Are you possibly adding that term to the Bible?

Also, most of your paraphrases of early church writings are wildly out of context.

Sigh.
Again, please show me the evidence and give us the religious, political and cultural context of early Christianity.

Your generalizations and labeling suggest you have no scholarly leg to stand on here. I am reminded of high school students who "bury their test essays in B.S."

Your lack of understanding of factual evidence (which YOU ASKED FOR if you recall) shows some biblically historical illiteracy.

The ball is in your court now. Please tell us the written textual evidence that you have found.
 

HisServant

New member
I am not aware of "throwing evidence...out of the window" but perhaps I have. If you will provide factual evidence from Christian history we can go over it together....

Again, what data, facts and evidence do you have that "I believe [in irrelevant] evidence"?

My Strong's Concordance does not list the term "disciplining divorce" in the Bible.

Are you possibly adding that term to the Bible?

Again, please show me the evidence and give us the religious, political and cultural context of early Christianity.

Your generalizations and labeling suggest you have no scholarly leg to stand on here. I am reminded of high school students who "bury their test essays in B.S."

Your lack of understanding of factual evidence (which YOU ASKED FOR if you recall) shows some biblically historical illiteracy.

The ball is in your court now. Please tell us the written textual evidence that you have found.

Just spend 15 minutes and read the link I posted.
 

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
...
so we better not go back to OT's law standards.
If we did, that means that eating shellfish at Red Lobster, wearing clothes that have two or more different types of cloth as well as "men lying with other men" are literally "ABOMINATIONS".
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
David, Solomon and other famous Jewish/Christian patriarchs are granted the right to have more than one wife.
Polygamy was occurring. God never endorsed it (Ge 2:24, Ex 20:14, Ps 128:1-6). :dizzy: He does not give his seal of approval to man's depravity (Mt 5:19). :hammer:

I let her go as scriptures require and gave her a bill of divorce...
1 Co 7:27 GWT

cripture say that I am no longer bound to her and may do as I please...


Understand the difference between moral law and ceremonial law. :dizzy:

See:

The Plot by Bob Enyart

Our word does not and cannot disannul Him and His covenant of marriage, despite human weakness in not being able to exemplify that standard.
They (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10) make it up as they go along (Mt 19:6, Rom. 7:2, 3). :hammer:

"Man's own religion usually descends to the fleshly life to which they themselves practice." :reals: ~ Jim Andrews

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper by John Piper
 

HisServant

New member
If we did, that means that eating shellfish at Red Lobster, wearing clothes that have two or more different types of cloth as well as "men lying with other men" are literally "ABOMINATIONS".

Not interested in getting involved in what was basically a breeding program in the Old Testament to make sure God fulfilled his promise to Abraham. (Make sure the blood lines are clear, make sure the people are as healthy as possible.. make sure they rest one day a week, etc.)

Seriously, it was one huge breeding program.... when you start looking at the bizarre marriage requirements back there.. like Onan having to sleep with his sister-in-law.. and all the dietary restrictions, that it what it was.
 

HisServant

New member
Polygamy was occurring. God never endorsed it (Ge 2:24, Ex 20:14, Ps 128:1-6). :dizzy: He does not give his seal of approval to man's depravity (Mt 5:19). :hammer:

1 Co 7:27 GWT



Understand the difference between moral law and ceremonial law. :dizzy:

See:

The Plot by Bob Enyart

They (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10) make it up as they go along (Mt 19:6, Rom. 7:2, 3). :hammer:

"Man's own religion usually descends to the fleshly life to which they themselves practice." :reals: ~ Jim Andrews

None of those verses says anything against polygamy.
 
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