Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 3

[lovemeorhateme]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So you wouldn't recommend something you know nothing about?

How about we applaud those "some [who] say it helped" in their conversion from homosexuality to a normal healthy lifestyle and treat them as we do all other unbelievers and share the gospel with them?

As I have already said, if they went through such therapy and consider themselves changed then good for them.

To go through such therapy without coming to know Christ as Lord and Saviour is in vain, is it not? Would you rather they seek conversion therapy first and give them the gospel later? If the focus is not on Jesus, the focus is wrong.

Quote:
Wouldn't it be nice if it were up to the parents of children who are struggling with same sex desires and gender identity confusion in states like CA and New Jersey? Unfortunately parental rights have been taken away in those and other states and as I mentioned in a previous post, it may very well become a federal ban.

I think you'll find that when you marry and father children Pete that 12 year old children rarely know what's best for them.

I'm aware that 12 year olds don't know what's best for them. But I would seriously question why one would send a 12-year old to such therapy to begin with? I fear if it fails, it will only encourage the child to accept a homosexual identity.

Yet there are court ordered therapies for alcoholics and drug addicts who don't want to change.

Come now, surely you know that unless someone wants to change then these efforts are in vain?

The alternative is death. Which is better, to fail at something and try again until you succeed, or give into immoral thoughts and behaviors?

It's all very black and white to you, isn't it? Do you not think life has such things as nuances? You think that the only alternative to 'conversion therapy' is for that child or person to embrace a homosexual identity and end up dying young of an STI.

Well, there is another alternative. It's not often popular, it's not often talked about.. but it's celibacy and chastity. After all it was the Apostle Paul himself who said it's better for a man not to marry. In encouraging this, the focus moves away from 'turning straight' to following Christ and living according to God's will. When one does that, there is indeed a chance that one will see a change in their life like I did.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Note how Pete stated that he knows people that were helped by them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemeorhateme
... I've met many people who have been through 'reparitive therapy'. Some say it helped,...

Doesn't that just eat you up inside that other people are being helped to leave homosexual behavior and often times desires behind Art?

That's some very selective quoting there. I also stated that I know many who desperately wanted to change, went through such therapy and experienced no such change.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Note how Pete stated that he knows people that were helped by them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemeorhateme
... I've met many people who have been through 'reparitive therapy'. Some say it helped,...

That's some very selective quoting there. I also stated that I know many who desperately wanted to change, went through such therapy and experienced no such change.

What do you see here Pete?

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Note how Pete stated that he knows people that were helped by them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemeorhateme
... I've met many people who have been through 'reparitive therapy'. Some say it helped,...




What do you see here Pete?

I'm not playing little mind games with you, aCW. Do you care to answer my previous post or not?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Oh noes, how dare gay people have equal rights...

Why should "gay people" have equal rights?

Where does your "right" to engage in homosexual sex come from?

 

[Rusha]

Why should "gay people" have equal rights?

Life. Liberty. Pursuit of happiness. Ring any bells?

 

[alwight]

Why should "gay people" have equal rights?

Where does your "right" to engage in homosexual sex come from?

Why should "spoon collecting people" have equal rights?

Where does your "right" to engage in spoon collecting come from?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Why should "gay people" have equal rights?

Where does your "right" to engage in homosexual sex come from?

Kinda ironic you would ask that given the latter part of your username. Why shouldn't gay people have that right?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Note how Pete stated that he knows people that were helped by them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemeorhateme
... I've met many people who have been through 'reparitive therapy'. Some say it helped,...




What do you see here Pete?

A complete pillock?

Oh right, you were on about the glass of water, my mistake...

 

[Christian Liberty]

Life. Liberty. Pursuit of happiness. Ring any bells?

Ah, yes. The secular religion of America.

But, why are those things important? You have no reason, do you?

Why should "spoon collecting people" have equal rights?

Where does your "right" to engage in spoon collecting come from?

Good question.

Kinda ironic you would ask that given the latter part of your username. Why shouldn't gay people have that right?

Leviticus 20:13

 

[Arthur Brain]

Ah, yes. The secular religion of America.

But, why are those things important? You have no reason, do you?



Good question.



Leviticus 20:13

We don't live in a totalitarian style 'Christian' state, so therefore consenting adults are free to do as they will providing it doesn't break the law. Would you wish to change that?

 

[Christian Liberty]

We don't live in a totalitarian style 'Christian' state, so therefore consenting adults are free to do as they will providing it doesn't break the law.

Oh, how little you understand. You call the relatively libertarian laws that God gave Israel "tyrannical", while asserting that it is absolutely acceptable to regulate behaviors as long as they are "illegal." No transcendent moral principles, just "law." Again, like most people, this shows what you really worship.

Would you wish to change that?

Absolutely yes. Though your characterization of "totalitarian" is completely wrong. I do support a Christian State.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Oh, how little you understand. You call the relatively libertarian laws that God gave Israel "tyrannical", while asserting that it is absolutely acceptable to regulate behaviors as long as they are "illegal." No transcendent moral principles, just "law." Again, like most people, this shows what you really worship.



Absolutely yes. Though your characterization of "totalitarian" is completely wrong. I do support a Christian State.

Hey, don't even try to patronize me CL. As much as you might think you're so intellectually superior to practically everyone else you aren't half as impressive as you consider yourself to be. I consider the liberty of law abiding consenting adults to be paramount, not to be restricted by tyranny whatever guise it flags under. If you don't like the laws and liberties we have in the West then why not go bog off to Uganda?

 

[alwight]

Oh, how little you understand. You call the relatively libertarian laws that God gave Israel "tyrannical", while asserting that it is absolutely acceptable to regulate behaviors as long as they are "illegal." No transcendent moral principles, just "law." Again, like most people, this shows what you really worship.



Absolutely yes. Though your characterization of "totalitarian" is completely wrong. I do support a Christian State.

A rather different theocratic society (Islamic State) is trying to impose its will in the Middle East. You seem to have much in common with them regarding homophobic bigotry and a general intolerance of anyone not believing or thinking as they do. lain:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I'm familiar with the word "initiate" Jr., I just want you to confirm what type of crimes that civil government shouldn't "initiate" against.

Are you asking about my opinions, or a Christian libertarian? I am no longer a libertarian.

That's right, the cult of the week is Christian theonomy (If the Bible doesn't specifically say that driving an 18 wheeler down the interstate at 90 mph while high on crack cocaine should be criminalized, then it should be legal).

Since you (allegedly) left the Christian Libertarian cult behind, why don't you share with a couple of TOL'ers who continue to follow the cult (drbrumley and Lexington) as to why you left?

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Who are "some people" and what "one sin more than another" tempts them?

Just as some people have a greater than normal inclination toward lust or anger, some people have lust for other men. But this is an unnatural lust, the result of sin, and something they are morally obligated to refuse to act on.

This particular sin/unnatural sexual desire/immoral behavior that this 3 part thread is talking about is brought on by environmental factors, as shown in Part 2's most important post.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3393262&postcount=17

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
While I don't want to spend too much time on what homosexual activists are doing in the UK, I will reveal more about homosexual activist Christian Jessen.

In 2013 a well known UK homosexual periodical said this about Christian Jessen and a few other LGBTQueer activists:

TheGayUK announces its first ever New Year’s Recognition list, to acknowledge the massive support and campaigning efforts that companies, organisations and individuals have made to the LGBT community. 2012 has been an incredibly important year with the addition of many new faces, who have joined the fight for equality and fairness for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgendered people around the globe. It’s an ongoing process and we’re not there yet, however thanks to the tireless work of these people, we are progressing.

Christian Jessen is also considered an "icon" in the UK's LGBTQueer so-called "community" :

http://lgbticons.com/2014/04/15/dr-christian-jessen/

Oh noes, how dare gay people have equal rights...

Are you ready to admit that you have taken a side in this culture war and that the LGBTQueer movement is the side that you're on, and in your pathetic little way you are a homosexual activist?

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
http://aflame.blog.co.uk/2014/03/20...test-anti-ex-gay-pseudo-documentary-18021119/

Oh wow, a blog, and a poorly written one at that. That's convincing...

Convincing enough for you not to attempt to refute it.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Have you ever thought of making lovemeorhateme (aka Pete) your mentor Art? While he is close to 20 years younger than you, there is much you can learn from him when it comes to his brave fight to overcome same sex desires.

I pray for his happiness daily and hope that you someday will share the happiness that Christian men married with families have.

He already is a friend dingbat. What's more he knows I'm straight and unlike you has never made up sleazy innuendo about me or invented any other creeped out rubbish.

Only God and you know what's in your heart, not some guy you know from an internet forum.

Now just in case this already wasn't apparent to you:

I have zero respect for lying little knobs like yourself. I've met deck chairs that could outwit you and pomegranates with higher IQ's. You are singularly one of the most whacked out, bat crazy, fruitcake, loony tune sleazebags it has ever been my misfortune to encounter.

Now I realize there were words of more than one syllable in the above but even for you the gist should be clear.

Get a life you sad man.

I don't know about others, but after reading one of your uplifting posts Art, I feelz like I'z walking on sunshine.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So you wouldn't recommend something you know nothing about?

How about we applaud those "some [who] say it helped" in their conversion from homosexuality to a normal healthy lifestyle and treat them as we do all other unbelievers and share the gospel with them?

As I have already said, if they went through such therapy and consider themselves changed then good for them.

I can see how happy you are for those who successfully went through secular reparative therapy Pete.

To go through such therapy without coming to know Christ as Lord and Saviour is in vain, is it not? Would you rather they seek conversion therapy first and give them the gospel later? If the focus is not on Jesus, the focus is wrong.

If it was their goal to overcome homosexual desires and at that particular time in their life they had no desire to seek a spiritual awakening, what business is it of yours?

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Wouldn't it be nice if it were up to the parents of children who are struggling with same sex desires and gender identity confusion in states like CA and New Jersey? Unfortunately parental rights have been taken away in those and other states and as I mentioned in a previous post, it may very well become a federal ban.

I think you'll find that when you marry and father children Pete that 12 year old children rarely know what's best for them.

I'm aware that 12 year olds don't know what's best for them. But I would seriously question why one would send a 12-year old to such therapy to begin with? I fear if it fails, it will only encourage the child to accept a homosexual identity.

Define "such therapy". If you're going with the lie that Christian Jessen and the LGBTQueer movement is using as a scare tactic, you should read this link that I posted a couple of pages ago.

Cure Me I'm Gay - The Truth About The Latest Anti-ex-gay Pseudo-documentary

http://aflame.blog.co.uk/2014/03/20...test-anti-ex-gay-pseudo-documentary-18021119/

To answer your question: Why would two loving parents send their 12 year old boy to therapy to help him overcome same sex desires?

Maybe they want him to live?

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Yet there are court ordered therapies for alcoholics and drug addicts who don't want to change.

Come now, surely you know that unless someone wants to change then these efforts are in vain?

Righteous laws frequently help people who are morally confused find a way to change. Again, death is not an alternative.



Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
The alternative is death. Which is better, to fail at something and try again until you succeed, or give into immoral thoughts and behaviors?

It's all very black and white to you, isn't it? Do you not think life has such things as nuances? You think that the only alternative to 'conversion therapy' is for that child or person to embrace a homosexual identity and end up dying young of an STI.

Well, there is another alternative. It's not often popular, it's not often talked about.. but it's celibacy and chastity.

And deny someone the joy of marital relations and a family? Remember that with God all things are possible.

Matthew 19:26

Now back to that glass of water:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Are you ready to admit that you have taken a side in this culture war and that the LGBTQueer movement is the side that you're on, and in your pathetic little way you are a homosexual activist?

Nope, and what you're "fighting" is no more a 'culture war' than a carton of eggs. You don't actually care about any of this. This entire thread is about one thing only - your swollen ego.

Convincing enough for you not to attempt to refute it.

Of course it wasn't. It was a badly written, poorly constructed piece of garbage, so it comes as no surprise that you'd gladly lap it up.

Only God and you know what's in your heart, not some guy you know from an internet forum.

Pfffft, there's plenty of people who know I'm straight, not just Pete. But to apply your criteria back on you - rather hypocritical that you think you can tell - or is it just an excuse for your pathetic sleazy innuendo?

I don't know about others, but after reading one of your uplifting posts Art, I feelz like I'z walking on sunshine.

Well if you were you'd be off the planet which would be rather apt. Just telling it how it is. You're a none too bright, sleazy lying crank.

:e4e:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Are you ready to admit that you have taken a side in this culture war and that the LGBTQueer movement is the side that you're on, and in your pathetic little way you are a homosexual activist?

Nope, and what you're "fighting" is no more a 'culture war' than a carton of eggs. You don't actually care about any of this. This entire thread is about one thing only - your swollen ego.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Convincing enough for you not to attempt to refute it.

Of course it wasn't. It was a badly written, poorly constructed piece of garbage, so it comes as no surprise that you'd gladly lap it up.

And the worst part of the article for you obviously is that it was written by yet another EX homosexual.

"As to the answered question of why there are so many therapies? The answer is simple. As I and thousands of others have found - they work (www.voices-of-change.org)."
http://aflame.blog.co.uk/2014/03/20...test-anti-ex-gay-pseudo-documentary-18021119/
http://www.voices-of-change.org/

I'd ask you to stick around and chat Art, but you've got your message to get out to convince people that you like women (the same line you use in every TOL thread about homosexuality).

...I certainly didn't 'choose' heterosexuality, it chose me so to speak. Could you choose to start being attracted to other men...?

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4294582&postcount=2

 

[Christian Liberty]

Hey, don't even try to patronize me CL. As much as you might think you're so intellectually superior to practically everyone else you aren't half as impressive as you consider yourself to be. I consider the liberty of law abiding consenting adults to be paramount, not to be restricted by tyranny whatever guise it flags under. If you don't like the laws and liberties we have in the West then why not go bog off to Uganda?

I don't think I'm intellectually superior. That's the issue.

The issue is that you see "tyranny" in this one particular area, over a law God commanded. Yet you don't see the tyranny in thousands of little laws that regulate every part of people's lives even in areas that are not moral in nature, or commanded by God.

The only freedom you care about is sexual perversion.

A rather different theocratic society (Islamic State) is trying to impose its will in the Middle East. You seem to have much in common with them regarding homophobic bigotry and a general intolerance of anyone not believing or thinking as they do. lain:

There are a ton of differences between even the most authoritarian strains of theonomy (which isn't the one I hold to) and theocratic Islam. If I hold to theocracy, I believe in a relatively libertarian one, as Rushdoony and Bahnsen did, and as Gary North and Joel McDurmon currently do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I'm familiar with the word "initiate" Jr., I just want you to confirm what type of crimes that civil government shouldn't "initiate" against.



That's right, the cult of the week is Christian theonomy (If the Bible doesn't specifically say that driving an 18 wheeler down the interstate at 90 mph while high on crack cocaine should be criminalized, then it should be legal).

Since you (allegedly) left the Christian Libertarian cult behind, why don't you share with a couple of TOL'ers who continue to follow the cult (drbrumley and Lexington) as to why you left?

Its not a "cult", and you calling both it and theonomy cults proves that you don't know what you're talking about.

I've discussed this with Lexington at one point. It went fine. We disagreed. Its fine.

But I'm way closer to libertarianism than what you believe, so no, I'm not going to help you. Drbrumley or Lexington is welcome to ask me about theonomy if they want to.