Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 3

[aCultureWarrior]

To what now? 50?

I get the feeling that Traci is going to lay some (bogus) statistics on us any second.

 

[TracerBullet]

:think: Homosexual life Expectancy: 40 years

Lets take a look at this cavalcade of crap

As early as 1858, G. Tardieu reported on the age distribution of males imprisoned in France for sodomy. Of the 216 who ages were given, the age range from under 15 to 69, with a median age of under 25. Eliminating all under 18, the median age rises to almost 40.
In 1914, M. Hirschfeld reported on German males convicted of involvement in sodomy. The age distribution ranged from under 15 to over 50, with the median of 24 years. Since "over 50" was the last category, we cannot determine just how many, if any, attain the age of 65. But only 9 % were over 50.
In the late 1930s and 1940s, Kinsey and his investigators spent more than 12 years seeking out and interviewing homosexuals. Because Kinsey and his colleagues were regarded as sexual liberators, homosexuals were eager to volunteer for his study. There is no reason to believe that his sample was not representative of all age groups available. Yet fewer than 1% of his homosexuals, male as well as female, were over the age of 65.
The Mattachine Society, the earliest of the "gay rights" organizations, gathered together a representative group of homosexuals for Evelyn Hooker to study in her highly influential 1950s study. The oldest of the 30 subjects was 50, the next oldest was 44, and the median age was 33.

Nothing here has anything to do with life expectancy.

In the early 1960s, Berger attempted to draw a sampling of elderly homosexuals, but had to begin his scale at 40 years and only 34 of 112 were over the age of 59,

it tells you a great deal about the honesty of the claims when the author doesn't provide actual references.
"The men we interviewed ranged in age from forty four to seventy two years." This is the only reference to the age distribution of the 112 men Berger interviewed. There is no age breakdown. So where does the number 34 come from?

From 1969 through 1970, the Kinsey Institute surveyed homosexuals in San Francisco. Although they recruited respondents in eight different ways, only 23% of male homosexuals and only 18% of lesbians were over the age of 45

in 1970 the median age in the United States was 12 years. 20.9% of the population was over the age of 45.

In 1977, the largest survey of homosexuals reported 0.2% of its lesbians and 0.8% of its homosexual males were age 65 or older.

gee an referenced claim...


skipping ahead

In 1994, an obituary study revealed that the median age of death for homosexual males was 42 and for lesbians was 49. Source: Cameron, Playfair, Wellum, " The Longevity of Homosexuals: Before and After the AIDS Epidemic, " Omega Journal of Death and Dying," 1994.

our good friend Paul Cameron. A man who was expelled form the APA because he was caught making up research data about homosexuals.


Here’s part of what he was claiming:

Obituaries numbering 6,516 from 16 U.S. homosexual journals over the past 12 years were compared to a large sample of obituaries from regular newspapers…23 The median age of death for homosexuals was virtually the same nationwide — and, overall, less than 2% survived to old age. If AIDS was the cause of death, the median age was 39. For the 829 gays who died of something other than AIDS, the median age of death was 42, and 9% died old. The 163 lesbians had a median age of death of 44, and 20% died old.
…The age distribution of samples of homosexuals in the scientific literature from 1989 to 1992 suggests a similarly shortened lifespan.
Cameron, Paul; Playfair, William L.; Wellum, Stephen. “The lifespan of homosexuals.” Paper presented at Eastern Psychological Association Convention (April 17, 1993).

first I’d like to pick on is the fact that the Eastern Psychological Association, one of the country’s leading psychological professional organizations, denies Cameron ever presented a paper at any of their conventions much less the one in 1993. Truth is that he didn't actually present his study there. Cameron makes claims about presenting papers at prestigious convention often. What he does is enter the venue where the convention is being held and sets himself up in some hallway with a poster board summarizing his latest research ready to talk to anybody who asks what he's doing.

Cameron did later publish his paper in “Psychological Reports.” Now PR sounds like some sort of scientific journal…but it’s actually part of a vanity press operation. If you send in your “scientific” study and a modest fee they will print it for you. I’m sure you can guess that Paul Cameron uses Psychological Reports often.

Cameron collected 6,516 obituaries from sixteen gay newspapers over a twelve month period, and compared them to obituaries from general circulation newspapers, which he used as his “straight” sample. He does not say how many obituaries he used for his “straight” sample, and he does not say how he is able to determine whether an obituary in a general circulation newspaper is of a heterosexual or homosexual.
First problem is that reading the obituaries in a newspaper is not a way to determine life expectancy for anyone. The reasons for this are simple Obituaries do not track all deaths that take place.
Problems specific to Cameron’s work are that obituaries of closeted homosexuals would not have appeared in the gay press and only a tiny fraction of the deaths of gay men would be reported in the gay press.
Cameron also noted that many of the gay newspapers reported more violent deaths than others, he therefor decided to increase his tally of gay men and women by including those whose deaths were mentioned in news stories or letters to the editor. How did he decide from say a report on a car accident that the deceased was gay? Only Cameron knows the answer to that.


and finally:

Life expectancy for a 20 year old gay or bisexual man is 8 to 20 years less than all men. The authors estimate that " nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently age 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday." Source: Hogg. RS., Strathdee, SA., Craib, KJP., O'Shaughnessy, MV., Montainer, JSG., Schechter, MT., " Modeling the impact of HIV Disease on Mortality in Gay and Bisexual Men," International Journal of Epidemiology, Vol. 26, No. 3, 1997, pp. 657-61.

It seems that Dr. Hogg and his associates found out that some hate groups were misrepresenting their work. They wrote an open letter to the International Journal of Epidemiology broke tradition and published it.


Here is Dr. Hogg himself:

Dear Dr. George Davey Smith:
Over the past several months I have received correspondence from a number of people regarding a paper I wrote with Mr. Craib and Drs. Montaner, O'Shaughnessy, Schechter, and Strathdee in the International Journal of Epidemiology on the gay and bisexual life expectancy in Vancouver in the late 1980s and early 1990s. From this correspondence it appears that our research is being used by select groups in United States and other countries to suggest that gay and bisexual men live an unhealthy lifestyle that is destructive to themselves and to others. These homophobic groups appear more interested in restricting the human rights of gay and bisexuals rather than promoting their health and wellbeing.

It is essential to note that the life expectancy of any population is a descriptive and not a prescriptive measure. Death is a product of the way a person lives and what physical and environmental hazards he or she faces every day. It cannot be attributed solely to their sexual orientation or any other ethnic or social factor. If estimates of an individual gay and bisexual man's risk of death is truly needed for legal or other purposes than persons making these estimates should use the same actuarial tables that are used for all other males in that population. Gay and bisexual men are included in the construction of official population-based tables and therefore these tables for all males are the appropriate ones to be used.

We recognize that the International Journal of Epidemiology does not publish letters to the editor. However, we would like to convey at least to you and the other journal staff that we do not condone the use of our research in this manner. We would hope that this message could be also conveyed to the subscribers of the journal. Copies of this letter will also be forwarded to individuals that have expressed concern about the way our work is being used to restrict the rights of gay and bisexuals.
Sincerely
ROBERT S. HOGG, PhD
STEFFANIE A. STRATHDEE, PhD
KEVIN J.P. CRAIB, MMath, PhD (cand.)
MICHAEL V. O'SHAUGHNESSY, PhD
JULIO MONTANER, MD, FRCPC, FCCP
MARTIN T. SCHECHTER, MD, PhD, FRCPC
BRITISH COLUMBIA CENTRE FOR EXCELLENCE IN HIV/AIDS, ST. PAUL'S HOSPITAL, UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA, VANCOUVER, CANADA. AND DEPARTMENT OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, SCHOOL OF HYGIENE AND PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY
International Journal of Epidemiology 2001 Vol 30. num.6, pg 1499

 

[TracerBullet]

I get the feeling that Traci is going to lay some (bogus) statistics on us any second.

you are the only one here presenting bogus statistics

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I have an important announcement to make, so everyone please listen up.

TracerBullet (aka Traci) has officially dethroned Art Brain of his

"Queen of Denial" title.

Hopefully Traci will be...ahem...around next January to accept it.

(Practice safe homosex...if there is such a thing, and be sure to "get tested" Traci).

 

[aCultureWarrior]

One thing that I will ask of the homosexualists posting in this thread is that when they make statements like this:

Did you know that homosexuality was on the criminal statutes in about every state in the 1940s and 50s, yet that did not stop cities like St. Louis, New Orleans, New York, and Provincetown from having thriving homosexual communities?

that they link the article that they got that information from (I showed how "thriving" the mafia run pedersast bars of NYC were in earlier posts).

Also, when copying and pasting long articles like this (which was obviously written by a homosexual journalist and not Traci), that a link to the article be attached as well (we don't want Traci getting banned for plagiarism now do we?)

Lets take a look at this cavalcade of crap...

Nothing here has anything to do with life expectancy.

Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.

 

[Lon]

I get the feeling that Traci is going to lay some (bogus) statistics on us any second.

Lets take a look at this cavalcade of crap

Spoiler

Nothing here has anything to do with life expectancy.



it tells you a great deal about the honesty of the claims when the author doesn't provide actual references.
"The men we interviewed ranged in age from forty four to seventy two years." This is the only reference to the age distribution of the 112 men Berger interviewed. There is no age breakdown. So where does the number 34 come from?




in 1970 the median age in the United States was 12 years. 20.9% of the population was over the age of 45.


gee an referenced claim...


skipping ahead

our good friend Paul Cameron. A man who was expelled form the APA because he was caught making up research data about homosexuals.


Here’s part of what he was claiming:



first I’d like to pick on is the fact that the Eastern Psychological Association, one of the country’s leading psychological professional organizations, denies Cameron ever presented a paper at any of their conventions much less the one in 1993. Truth is that he didn't actually present his study there. Cameron makes claims about presenting papers at prestigious convention often. What he does is enter the venue where the convention is being held and sets himself up in some hallway with a poster board summarizing his latest research ready to talk to anybody who asks what he's doing.

Cameron did later publish his paper in “Psychological Reports.” Now PR sounds like some sort of scientific journal…but it’s actually part of a vanity press operation. If you send in your “scientific” study and a modest fee they will print it for you. I’m sure you can guess that Paul Cameron uses Psychological Reports often.

Cameron collected 6,516 obituaries from sixteen gay newspapers over a twelve month period, and compared them to obituaries from general circulation newspapers, which he used as his “straight” sample. He does not say how many obituaries he used for his “straight” sample, and he does not say how he is able to determine whether an obituary in a general circulation newspaper is of a heterosexual or homosexual.
First problem is that reading the obituaries in a newspaper is not a way to determine life expectancy for anyone. The reasons for this are simple Obituaries do not track all deaths that take place.
Problems specific to Cameron’s work are that obituaries of closeted homosexuals would not have appeared in the gay press and only a tiny fraction of the deaths of gay men would be reported in the gay press.
Cameron also noted that many of the gay newspapers reported more violent deaths than others, he therefor decided to increase his tally of gay men and women by including those whose deaths were mentioned in news stories or letters to the editor. How did he decide from say a report on a car accident that the deceased was gay? Only Cameron knows the answer to that.


and finally:




It seems that Dr. Hogg and his associates found out that some hate groups were misrepresenting their work. They wrote an open letter to the International Journal of Epidemiology broke tradition and published it.


Here is Dr. Hogg himself:

Dear Dr. George Davey Smith:
Over the past several months I have received correspondence from a number of people regarding a paper I wrote with Mr. Craib and Drs. Montaner, O'Shaughnessy, Schechter, and Strathdee in the International Journal of Epidemiology on the gay and bisexual life expectancy in Vancouver in the late 1980s and early 1990s. From this correspondence it appears that our research is being used by select groups in United States and other countries to suggest that gay and bisexual men live an unhealthy lifestyle that is destructive to themselves and to others. These homophobic groups appear more interested in restricting the human rights of gay and bisexuals rather than promoting their health and wellbeing.

It is essential to note that the life expectancy of any population is a descriptive and not a prescriptive measure. Death is a product of the way a person lives and what physical and environmental hazards he or she faces every day. It cannot be attributed solely to their sexual orientation or any other ethnic or social factor. If estimates of an individual gay and bisexual man's risk of death is truly needed for legal or other purposes than persons making these estimates should use the same actuarial tables that are used for all other males in that population. Gay and bisexual men are included in the construction of official population-based tables and therefore these tables for all males are the appropriate ones to be used.

We recognize that the International Journal of Epidemiology does not publish letters to the editor. However, we would like to convey at least to you and the other journal staff that we do not condone the use of our research in this manner. We would hope that this message could be also conveyed to the subscribers of the journal. Copies of this letter will also be forwarded to individuals that have expressed concern about the way our work is being used to restrict the rights of gay and bisexuals.
Sincerely
ROBERT S. HOGG, PhD
STEFFANIE A. STRATHDEE, PhD
KEVIN J.P. CRAIB, MMath, PhD (cand.)
MICHAEL V. O'SHAUGHNESSY, PhD
JULIO MONTANER, MD, FRCPC, FCCP
MARTIN T. SCHECHTER, MD, PhD, FRCPC
BRITISH COLUMBIA CENTRE FOR EXCELLENCE IN HIV/AIDS, ST. PAUL'S HOSPITAL, UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA, VANCOUVER, CANADA. AND DEPARTMENT OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, SCHOOL OF HYGIENE AND PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY
International Journal of Epidemiology 2001 Vol 30. num.6, pg 1499

Er, ACW JUST said:

With all fairness to ... homosexuality, with the invention of HAART medication ... the life expectancy of those who engage in homosexual behavior has increased.

before you ever posted. Did you miss that? :idunno:

My point being, that with his correction of current events, that old data is old, whether it was true or not. I suppose debunking an article no longer current might have merit, but it isn't the first or only time I heard those statistics. Even the homosexual community used to report the same about themselves.

For me, the more important information needed, was/is that it is no longer current information. Thanks.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Er, ACW JUST said:
before you ever posted. Did you miss that? :idunno:

Meaning that those who engage in homosexual behavior aren't dropping like flies like they did during the 80's AIDS epidemic (due to expensive tax subsidized HIV/AIDS medication, but homosexuals are still disproportionately afflicted with HIV/AIDS), but they're still involved in an "at risk" lifestyle, just like prostitutes and drug addicts (many who engage in homosexual behavior are both).

My point being, that with his correction of current events, that old data is old, whether it was true or not. I suppose debunking an article no longer current might have merit, but it isn't the first or only time I heard those statistics. Even the homosexual community used to report the same about themselves.

For me, the more important information needed, was/is that it is no longer current information. Thanks.

As I've shown frequently throughout this 3 part thread: the LGBTQueer movement has permeated every institution, including that of the psychological profession (refer to my recent post about the APA's LGBT group called "Division 44").
http://www.apadivision44.org/

Don't believe a word (or study) that these sociopaths say as homosexuality throughout time has been and will continue to be a

"deathstyle".

 

[GFR7]

Don't believe a word (or study) that these sociopaths say as homosexuality throughout time has been and will continue to be a

"deathstyle".

This is why you need to stop posting out-dated statistics.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

This is why you need to stop posting out-dated statistics.

Any valid study revealing the truth about homosexual behavior is automatically discredited by your fellow jack booted thugs.

One only need look at the behavior itself along with the 'culture' to see that those who engage in homosex are involved in a 'deathstyle'.

Need I go over the 'homosexual culture' segment that I did in the latter section of Part 1 again?

BTW, are you going to link the article that stated cities like St. Louie, Nu Awlins, Nu Yawk and your beloved Provincetown were "thriving homosexual communites" back in the 1940's and 50's?

 

[Arthur Brain]

I have an important announcement to make, so everyone please listen up.

TracerBullet (aka Traci) has officially dethroned Art Brain of his

"Queen of Denial" title.

Hopefully Traci will be...ahem...around next January to accept it.

(Practice safe homosex...if there is such a thing, and be sure to "get tested" Traci).

:shocked:

Oh noes! You've revoked my award?!

I would do the same in turn but you actually 'deserved' all of yours...:mmph:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

:shocked:

Oh noes! You've revoked my award?!

You have it until next January Art.

Your status as TOL's head drama queen is safe.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
With all fairness to those who proudly engage the disease ridden behavior known as homosexuality, with the invention of HAART medication (and us taxpayers subsidizing it) the life expectancy of those who engage in homosexual behavior has increased.

To what now? 50?

46.6
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-02/cums-lil021414.php

(Hey, the study was done by the pro sodomite Mailman School of Public Health at Columbia University, and we all know how sodomites don't lie).

9 years longer that GFR7's great great uncle Arthur Rimbaud lived.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4063336&postcount=2411

 

[Arthur Brain]

You have it until next January Art.

Your status as TOL's head drama queen is safe.

I should darn well think so an' all. How DARE you even intimate that such soap opera awards can be reduced to entire nonsense...I almost cried into my Ovaltine no less...

 

[TracerBullet]

I have an important announcement to make, so everyone please listen up.

TracerBullet (aka Traci) has officially dethroned Art Brain of his

"Queen of Denial" title.

Hopefully Traci will be...ahem...around next January to accept it.

(Practice safe homosex...if there is such a thing, and be sure to "get tested" Traci).

I've asked you many times anyone should accept the research of a man who was caught faking research. You have never been honest enough to answer and i doubt you will be honest enough to answer now.

 

[TracerBullet]

Er, ACW JUST said:
before you ever posted. Did you miss that? :idunno:

My point being, that with his correction of current events, that old data is old, whether it was true or not. I suppose debunking an article no longer current might have merit, but it isn't the first or only time I heard those statistics. Even the homosexual community used to report the same about themselves.

For me, the more important information needed, was/is that it is no longer current information. Thanks.

it was never old data, it was just made up

 

[TracerBullet]

Any valid study revealing the truth about homosexual behavior is automatically discredited by your fellow jack booted thugs.

you have never put up a valid study.

 

[TracerBullet]

You have it until next January Art.

Your status as TOL's head drama queen is safe.

you are the only queen here Francine

 

[TracerBullet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
With all fairness to those who proudly engage the disease ridden behavior known as homosexuality, with the invention of HAART medication (and us taxpayers subsidizing it) the life expectancy of those who engage in homosexual behavior has increased.



46.6
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-02/cums-lil021414.php

(Hey, the study was done by the pro sodomite Mailman School of Public Health at Columbia University, and we all know how sodomites don't lie).

9 years longer that GFR7's great great uncle Arthur Rimbaud lived.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4063336&postcount=2411

Thanks for showing a study that says that there is no life expectancy difference based on sexual orientation. And one demonstrating that subjecting minorities to hate, lies and discrimination are bad things to do

 

[GFR7]

Any valid study revealing the truth about homosexual behavior is automatically discredited by your fellow jack booted thugs.

One only need look at the behavior itself along with the 'culture' to see that those who engage in homosex are involved in a 'deathstyle'.

Need I go over the 'homosexual culture' segment that I did in the latter section of Part 1 again?

BTW, are you going to link the article that stated cities like St. Louie, Nu Awlins, Nu Yawk and your beloved Provincetown were "thriving homosexual communites" back in the 1940's and 50's?

You'll have to check with American history, and with Tennessee Williams' bio. But really, it's just common knowledge.

Gay communities thrived in the 1920s and into the '30s and '40s, but FDR did send the vice squads in. So after WWII there was a backlash: Cannot recall the title of the book I read about it, but here is an article:

Remembering LGBT History: How World War II Changed Gay and Lesbian Life in America

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...ar-II-Changed-Gay-and-Lesbian-Life-in-America

FYI:I based my prediction regarding the collapse of the culture of celebrating all things gay on the historical theory of Howe and Strauss: According to them, our current culture is poised to travel the same historical trajectory within the saeculum which the Great Depression and WW II brought in. You were naughty indeed to laugh at it. :AMR1: And it offers more hope than your theory.

The Gay ‘30S

For a brief but wild time in the twenties and thirties, an openly gay culture thrived in Chicago—a period historians call the “Pansy Craze.” Nightclubs and cabarets drew crowds of homosexuals, lesbians, and voyeurs—among them, sociologists who dutifully recorded the proceedings. Recently rediscovered recollections from that era have landed the city in the forefront of the small but popular field of gay historical research.

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/November-2005/The-Gay-30S/

Here is Wikipedia on the Pansy Craze of the 1930s:

(See Wikipedia, the Pansy Craze, NYC)

By the end of the 1920s much of the public image of gay people was still limited to the various drag balls in Greenwich Village and in Harlem, but the early 1930s saw a new development within a highly commercial context, bringing the gay porn subculture of the enclaves of Greenwich Village and Harlem onto the mainstream stages of midtown Manhattan in a veritable Pansy Craze from 1930 until the repeal of prohibition in 1933.

After the repeal of prohibition, this tolerance waned. Any sympathetic portrayal of gay characters (termed sexual perverts) was prohibited by the motion-picture production code from being included in Hollywood films. Performer Ray Bourbon was arrested many times for his act, considered tame by today's standards.[citation needed]

The 1920s and 1930s saw the emergence of notable and visible gay and lesbian presence and subculture in various cities in the USA. In many ways, New York City set the tone, particularly in its "bohemian artistic enclaves" of Greenwich Village and Harlem, as well as in the cabarets and speakeasies around the Broadway Theater District centered on Times Square.

Whereas the late 19th century restricted gay male activity to the seedy red-light district under the elevated train of the Bowery, with an even less visible lesbian life largely restricted to private salons for upper class women and a quite limited dance hall life for the less well-off, Prohibition allowed the first emergence of a visible gay and lesbian life in a largely middle-class context. Prohibition forced a new mixing of all kinds of people—all in search of the same illicit drink, and economics made for a culture of at least mild tolerance if not outright "anything goes".

As prohibition was quite bad for business in cosmopolitan cities, city officials and Madison Avenue conspired together to create the "Cult of the Urban Sophisticate"[this quote needs a citation] who was above the petty and outdated moralism of the Temperance movement. Not only did the 1920s see the emergence of visible, tolerated gay enclaves—but also the emergence of several gay-owned (or more often lesbian-owned) and -operated speakeasies and clubs, precursors of the outright "gay" or "lesbian" bars. There was an increasing association of gay and lesbian people with a kind of cultural renaissance, with many artists and writers gay and lesbian, and many of the salons that nurtured this talent, whether in the Village, Harlem or in sister commentates in Paris, run by women, quite often lesbians.

Here is a book about gay life in New York City in the 1890s:

Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World 1890 - 1940

http://www.amazon.com/Gay-New-York-Culture-1890-1940/dp/0465026214

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
With all fairness to those who proudly engage the disease ridden behavior known as homosexuality, with the invention of HAART medication (and us taxpayers subsidizing it) the life expectancy of those who engage in homosexual behavior has increased...[to]

46.6
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-lil021414.php

(Hey, the study was done by the pro sodomite Mailman School of Public Health at Columbia University, and we all know how sodomites don't lie).

Thanks for showing a study that says that there is no life expectancy difference based on sexual orientation.

Yet that same (pro homosexual) study showed a 12 year death disparity between sodomites who live in environments that embrace perversion vs those that don't.

I've seen the article before that Lon posted last night that showed the average lifespan of those who engage homosexual behavior:
http://www.theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/22SxSo/PnSx/HSx/hosx_lifspn.htm

It shows studies done by the homosexual pedophile Alfred Kinsey and the Mattachine Society which was founded by the homosexual pedophile Harry Hay.

The studies range from 1857 to 1998, so it's pretty obvious (especially when one looks at the behavior and culture involved in homosexuality) that those who partake in it die at much younger ages.

"Study after study reveals that homosexuality, whether male or female, can take anywhere from 10, 20 to 30 years off of someone's lifespan. With all the attention on smoking, which the National Cancer Institute says takes from 7 to 10 years off someone's life, why not the same human outcry on homosexuality? Here's a behavior that's killing people 2 to 3 times the rate of smoking, yet nobody seems to care. In fact, we are encouraging and affirming individuals into the "gay" lifestyle. If you truly love someone, you would steer them away from self-destructive behaviors, rather than towards them, shouldn't you? Homosexuals need our tough love, not blind love, the kind of love that is going to love them no matter what they say and do. We must extend that helping hand and say " I think your worth saving, let's work on it together."

And one demonstrating that subjecting minorities to hate, lies and discrimination are bad things to do

i.e. if you feel good about your perversion you'll live longer.