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Perhaps you need to know not to tempt anyone to have to prove anything __ especially to you.
ECT why don't you say the Our Father?
- Thread starter chrysostom
- Start date
Perhaps you need to know not to tempt anyone to have to prove anything __ especially to you.
God's Truth
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You should overcome temptation.
every sunday at mass we say this prayer
The Our Father
Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.
it might be time to take another look at your theology
if
it does not agree with this prayer
The Our Father
Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.
it might be time to take another look at your theology
if
it does not agree with this prayer
Cross Reference
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You think so highly of it to be the only prayer one needs to say, so why leave off this part: "For thine is the Kingdom power and glory forever", unless you believe the RCC to be the government of God?
Cross Reference
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:sigh:
I didn't say that
so
why are you suggesting that I did?
at mass each sunday
we include that part
surprised you didn't know that
Cross Reference
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I am surprised! When did the RCC start doing that?
oatmeal
Well-known member
Did Jesus Christ ever pray that prayer?
Is it recorded anywhere in scripture that Peter or any other apostles or any disciples ever prayed those particular words?
When Jesus was asked to teach how to pray, did he reply, "Now repeat after me verbatim and do this all the time and regularly at every mass you attend and make sure you do it mindlessly without any concern with what the words actually mean"?
or did he say, pray after this manner?
God's Truth
New member
Your denomination goes against the Lord's Prayer.
Catholics call a sinful man, their pope, "Holy Father".
Those in heaven obey the Father in heaven, but on earth in the Catholic denomination they do not.
Jesus is the bread we must eat everyday. We eat Jesus when we obey his words. Catholics do not obey Jesus, so they do not eat Jesus. They do not eat the daily bread.
Catholics teach against our asking God for forgiveness; they teach we must ask the "father" priest for forgiveness.
Your denomination definitely does not agree with the Lord's Prayer.
It is Christianity’s greatest prayer, but it's also Christianity’s strangest prayer.
--It is prayed by all Christians but it never mentions Christ.
--It is prayed in all churches but it never mentions Church.
--It is prayed on all Sundays but it never mentions Sunday.
--It is also called the "Lord's Prayer" but it never mentions "Lord."
What if it's neither a Jewish prayer for Jews nor yet a Christian prayer for Christians?
What if it is a prayer from the heart of Judaism on the Matthew Christianity for the conscience of the world?
And what if it is What if it is a radical manifesto and a hymn of hope for all humanity in language addressed to all the earth?
--It is prayed by all Christians but it never mentions Christ.
--It is prayed in all churches but it never mentions Church.
--It is prayed on all Sundays but it never mentions Sunday.
--It is also called the "Lord's Prayer" but it never mentions "Lord."
What if it's neither a Jewish prayer for Jews nor yet a Christian prayer for Christians?
What if it is a prayer from the heart of Judaism on the Matthew Christianity for the conscience of the world?
And what if it is What if it is a radical manifesto and a hymn of hope for all humanity in language addressed to all the earth?
It may be the RCC's greatest prayer, but NOT Christianity.
It's actually called the OUR FATHER, because it is ostensibly directed at the Father.
Anyone who is honest and faithful about using this prayer will know that Jesus' God did not require justice by spilling blood on the altar for remission of sins.
Jesus quoted the prophet Hosea by saying that the Father "wants mercy, not sacrifice."
Jesus IS God, and blood was required, just not animal blood, but hypostatic blood...the blood of God's Son Jesus. I suggest you read Heb 9 (NIV)
The only one that is to remain silent is you. Obey Paul you heathen.
Romans 4
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Here's one Calvinist who probably doesn't say it very often.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja6kVd-1jrY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja6kVd-1jrY
Consider studying it out within its' own narrative.
Said model of prayer, related here; in Matthew 6:
9. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11. Give us this day our daily bread.
12. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Is laid out from within both the overall, but immediate setting that is Matthew 5, thru to the end of Chapter 7, but also, from the overall narrative of all of Matthew thru Early Acts, and that, in light of their prophet; Daniel as to his vision of Israel's/Jacob's trouble - Daniel's Seventieth Week.
Note - Daniel 2: 44's "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."
See also Daniel 12: 1-4 et al.
Note Mark 1: 1. The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2. As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
14. Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
What time is fulfilled? Repent ye of what? And believe what gospel, or good news?
That the time - prophesied by Daniel; that in the days of these Gentile Kings Israel was under for its disobedience, according to the Law per Daniel 9's prayer, the God of Heaven would begin moving towards restoring Israel's kingdom - was at hand; repent ye Israel - turn back to the God of your father's and believe this good news!
That is the setting of that prayer...
In this, Mathew 6, verse 9 and 10 are the issue of Israel's need to refocus itself on the God of their father's and His intent for the Earth through that nation.
Verse 11, is the issue of the sustenance they will need during His coming wrath according to Moses; see Daniel 9's prayer as to this, together with the vision given him as to Israel's Seventy Weeks.
Verses 12- 15 have several focuses:
One; as with Daniel's prayer in Daniel 9; on their need to pray the Father for His forgiveness during said wrath to come; per their Law.
Two, as a means of His proving the sincerity of their hearts by how willing they are to forgive one another during said trying time of His wrath, "until" as He told them elsewhere in the narrative "seventy times seven" - until Daniel's 70 weeks are up, and the Lord returns in His Kingdom, Matthew 18:22.
Three, the issue of having to keep the Word of His patience during this great hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world, Rev. 3:10.
Their means of enduring unto the end that Matthew 24 is speaking of, being their focus throughout that hour on a perspective also found in Daniel 9's prayer - that "thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever."
In short, He is instructing them in Israel's blessed hope - on that focus by which He will be enable to them during this horrible hour to keep themselves from the very gates of hell which will then be opened to unleash their worst on this planet, prevailing upon them, Matthew 16:16!
Revelation 3's:
12. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
That was to be the case, but for an interruption of all that by the LORD, once more, though, as God revealed to King Nebuchadnezzar thru Daniel concerning all this - Daniel 2:
43. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and
consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
That, but for an interruption in it by God, now has said prayer and its very specific issues, on hold - Romans 11:
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
And this is just the very tip, of the tip of the iceberg as to all that is there on every detail as to these issues concerning that prayer.
God's Truth
New member
Your verbal abuse means nothing to me.
That scripture about Abraham BELIEVING, it does NOT NULLIFY the fact that Abraham's believing would be NOTHING IF HE HAD NOT ALSO OBEYED:
Genesis 26:4-5I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."
as long as I can remember
and
I have been around a long time
even back to the latin mass
but
as I recall we did the Our Father in english
Cross Reference
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Here is what you posted that you say:
So what you are now saying that doesn't line up?
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