Why "Conversion Therapy" Should Be Illegal

[Kit the Coyote]

Sounds like practically anything could be passed on.

The only more destructive thing I can think of would be suicide.

"The genetic traits of suicidal people are linked with fertility. Thus the mothers of people who jump off buildings have more kids overall."

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Correct, if there was something about individuals in a genetic line committing suicide that increased the probability of other members of that genetic line being able to pass on their genes then that is entirely possible. Though it is hard to imagine a case for that with suicide. Think of it as martyrdom for genetic lines. There is a recent book that dealt with this subject, I think it is called 'The Selfish Gene'. Basically, individual survival is less important than the genetic line itself.

PS: genetics and evolution are random natual processes, there is no intelligence or design involved and no need to justify a specific outcome other than it worked.

 

[Stripe]

Correct.

Theft. Homicide...

Do we get to make up stories about how these aren't good for a genetic line?

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[Arthur Brain]

It's not okay to be Stripe...

Sent from an abacus in Dippyville.

 

[Idolater]

Because you're an idol worshipper (Roman Catholicism)

I worship Christ. You just blasphemed.

you wouldn't know that in Scripture, Catholic Crusader's rabidly blind idol worship of that life long financial and political fraud presently in the White House, is considered spiritual fornication and an abomination in the sight of the God of Scripture.

CC is just a Catholic, afaik, and so CC only worships 'God the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,' like all Catholics.

Mass is how the Catholic Church worships Jesus. It's how Jesus said that He wants to be worshiped. He didn't leave it to chance, He specified what He wanted His Church to do. He wanted His Church to eat and drink, of the bread and the cup.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Theft. Homicide...

Do we get to make up stories about how these aren't good for a genetic line?

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No, not really. There is no indication that those activities are genetically influenced. If you do find evidence of that then you can look into hypotheses as to why they are passed on.

 

[Stripe]

There is no indication that those activities are genetically influenced.

:chuckle:

There's no evidence of a genetic component of perversion.

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[Kit the Coyote]

:chuckle:

There's no evidence of a genetic component of perversion.

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A higher occurrence rate in family lines then the general population, particularly in identical twins not raised in the same environment, would indicate there is a genetic component to homosexuality. Though like other personality traits like handedness, genetics is not the only factor.

 

[Stripe]

A higher occurrence rate in family lines then the general population.

That's just the same uncle abusing the kids within his grasp.

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[Kit the Coyote]

That's just the same uncle abusing the kids within his grasp.

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Nice try but the higher occurance still occurs even whether the relative in quesion ever has contact with other family members or not. That is specifically what makes it relevant to a genetic factor once you rule out those environmental factors.

In simpler terms if you have an uncle that was gay you have a higher chance of being gay even if you never met said uncle, if he died before you were born the odds remain the same.

 

[Danoh]

LOL, I never said the US was the chosen Israel. I said that Habakkuk 1 shows us that God raises up wicked kings and kingdoms to accomplish His will. Even the wicked people are used by God to accomplish His perfect will (ie, Donald Trump is president, for good or ill, by God's ordained will just as every other leader is raised up or torn down by God's will.).

Part of my point was that the God of Scripture is depicted working that way only when He is dealing with the Nation Israel, and that, in the Middle East.

You might want to carefully re-read ISRAEL's Prophet: Daniel's prayer, in Daniel 9, and then trace back its basis to THEIR Mosaic Law, in Deuteronomy.

Acts 17:11, 12.

 

[Danoh]

A higher occurrence rate in family lines then the general population, particularly in identical twins not raised in the same environment, would indicate there is a genetic component to homosexuality. Though like other personality traits like handedness, genetics is not the only factor.

Never mind that "indications" or the discernment of things that differ between things, greatly depends on where one is looking at things from, to begin with, and in terms of how well rounded one's base of information on a thing might or might not actually be, regardless of how much one might think one conclusions are based on a well-informed, well-rounded view.

Consider Konrad Lorenz's findings on Imprint Theory (the scientist whose famous experiments with ducks ended up with their mindlessly following him around where ever he went).

Imprint theory has to do with how living creatures automatically learn to, in this case, look like a duck, quack like a duck, walk like a duck, internally, which then impacts their later want to be with other ducks, and so on.

Hah - talk about irony - I've just described Trump's base.

:rotfl:

 

[MennoSota]

Part of my point was that the God of Scripture is depicted working that way only when He is dealing with the Nation Israel, and that, in the Middle East.

You might want to carefully re-read ISRAEL's Prophet: Daniel's prayer, in Daniel 9, and then trace back its basis to THEIR Mosaic Law, in Deuteronomy.

Acts 17:11, 12.

Romans 13 confirms that God places both the good and bad rulers in their places by his ordained will.
Romans 13
[1]Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.

 

[MennoSota]

Let us admit that all sin comes from the corruptness of our nature. There is no conversion therapy for the corruptness of our natural bent toward rebellion against God. Only God can change our nature and give us a new nature. (2 Corinthians 5:17: Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold the new has come.)

 

[Danoh]

Romans 13 confirms that God places both the good and bad rulers in their places by his ordained will.
Romans 13
[1]Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.

If you know your "Churchianity" you well know that what government Romans 13 might or might not actually be talking about - whether Secular, or roles within "the Body of Christ" - has ever been a subject of debate.

And many are basically clueless on this issue. Preferring instead whatever better props up their particular ignorance.

I began a thread on it, over in the ECT Forum.

Nowhere it quickly went, lol.

Am presently re-examining my present take on it myself.

And merely citing one verse from Romans 13 or even the entire chapter, is not going to cut it.

One thing is certain, your words herein above have basically asserted that the God of Scripture was behind the rise of Genesis 11's Protectionism; of the Wickedness that was Genesis 13's Sodom and Gomorrah; and so on.

Have at it.

Psalms 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

 

[MennoSota]

If you know your "Churchianity" you well know that what government Romans 13 might or might not actually be talking about - whether Secular, or roles within "the Body of Christ" - has ever been a subject of debate.

And many are basically clueless on this issue. Preferring instead whatever better props up their particular ignorance.

I began a thread on it, over in the ECT Forum.

Nowhere it quickly went, lol.

Am presently re-examining my present take on it myself.

And merely citing one verse from Romans 13 or even the entire chapter, is not going to cut it.

One thing is certain, your words herein above have basically asserted that the God of Scripture was behind the rise of Genesis 11's Protectionism; of the Wickedness that was Genesis 13's Sodom and Gomorrah; and so on.

Have at it.

Psalms 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

It seems that you are looking for an excuse to justify your bitterness.
God will mete out his justice upon every person and upon every nation. Even as God raised up the Babylonians in Habakkuk's time, so also did God cast down Babylon in Daniel's day.
God will accomplish what he wills, whether you accept it or become bitter. He really doesn't find your attitude to get in his way. So, keep on whining.

 

[Stripe]

The higher occurance still occurs even whether the relative in quesion ever has contact with other family members.

Sounds made up.

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[Danoh]

It seems that you are looking for an excuse to justify your bitterness.
God will mete out his justice upon every person and upon every nation. Even as God raised up the Babylonians in Habakkuk's time, so also did God cast down Babylon in Daniel's day.
God will accomplish what he wills, whether you accept it or become bitter. He really doesn't find your attitude to get in his way. So, keep on whining.

All of which had to do with the nation Israel...back then, Daniel 9.

While, your equally baseless assertion that I am just being bitter is either more of your thus far consistently obvious reading into a thing, or a cover up for the fact that you were not really able to address any of my points.

I have Romans 5:6-8.

For many years now.

At worst "tribulation worketh patience" Rom. 5:3.

What exactly would I have to be bitter about?

More like "and patience worketh peace" regardless of what might come my way.

But, as I've already noted, you have been reading into a thing ever since your first baseless response to my posts on this issue of whether or not the God of Scripture is still behind governments.

No sense in your stopping your reading into a thing now.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Sounds made up.

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Bailey JM, Pillard, RC (1991). "A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation". Archives of General Psychiatry.

Whitam FL; et al. (1993). "Homosexual orientation in twins: a report on 61 pairs and three triplet sets". Arch. Sex. Behav.

Bailey JM, Dunne MP, Martin NG (March 2000). "Genetic and environmental influences on sexual orientation and its correlates in an Australian twin sample" J Pers Soc Psychol.

Bearman P. S.; Bruckner H. (2002). "Opposite-sex twins and adolescent same-sex attraction" American Journal of Sociology.

Långström N, Rahman Q, Carlström E, Lichtenstein P (February 2010). "Genetic and environmental effects on same-sex sexual behavior: a population study of twins in Sweden". Arch Sex Behav.

Hu S, Pattatucci AM, Patterson C, et al. (November 1995). "Linkage between sexual orientation and chromosome Xq28 in males but not in females". Nat. Genet

Ngun TC; Vilain E (2014). "The Biological Basis of Human Sexual Orientation: Is There a Role for Epigenetics?" Advances in Genetics

Ellis L; Ficek C; Burke D; Das S (2008). "Eye Color, Hair Color, Blood Type, and the Rhesus Factor: Exploring Possible Genetic Links to Sexual Orientation". Arch. Sex. Behav.

A sampling of the studies involved.

 

[Stripe]

A sampling of the studies involved.

Yeah. Sounds made up.

Which of those says "higher occurance still occurs even whether the relative in quesion ever has contact with other family members"?

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[Danoh]

Bailey JM, Pillard, RC (1991). "A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation". Archives of General Psychiatry.

Whitam FL; et al. (1993). "Homosexual orientation in twins: a report on 61 pairs and three triplet sets". Arch. Sex. Behav.

Bailey JM, Dunne MP, Martin NG (March 2000). "Genetic and environmental influences on sexual orientation and its correlates in an Australian twin sample" J Pers Soc Psychol.

Bearman P. S.; Bruckner H. (2002). "Opposite-sex twins and adolescent same-sex attraction" American Journal of Sociology.

Långström N, Rahman Q, Carlström E, Lichtenstein P (February 2010). "Genetic and environmental effects on same-sex sexual behavior: a population study of twins in Sweden". Arch Sex Behav.

Hu S, Pattatucci AM, Patterson C, et al. (November 1995). "Linkage between sexual orientation and chromosome Xq28 in males but not in females". Nat. Genet

Ngun TC; Vilain E (2014). "The Biological Basis of Human Sexual Orientation: Is There a Role for Epigenetics?" Advances in Genetics

Ellis L; Ficek C; Burke D; Das S (2008). "Eye Color, Hair Color, Blood Type, and the Rhesus Factor: Exploring Possible Genetic Links to Sexual Orientation". Arch. Sex. Behav.

A sampling of the studies involved.

Again, what these people "conclude" is largely influenced by where they are looking at things from.

Case in point, some years back, a friend told me he was allergic to dog's fur. I took him through a process I picked up here and there, and 10-15 minutes later his allergy was gone, and has yet to return.

A process the Western Medical model still refuses to acknowledge the efficacy of, given where they look at things from.

Recently, when I shared something similar to that with a Pastor friend, he right away dismissed it as "Positive Confession / Faith Movement" hocus pocus.

Which cracked me up, because he is taking various medications he believes will help alleviate this and that.

Where he too is looking at things from, is what is influencing his diss - ease with my findings, lol

Louis Pasteur fighting the status quo.

Mari Curi...

And so on...

But, to each his or her own limits.