Why Calvinist Cannot Defend Their Doctrine of a Limited Atonement

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Are you claiming that God says he couldn't have conceived of men engaged in this abomination, or that he didn't conceive of it?

Neither one of these interpretations is sustainable on a simple straightforward reading of the text.

Is it your assertion that God might have authorized this behavior if he had thought of it?

Rather, the statement God makes is plainly that this behavior is so diametrically contrary to the innate justice that characterizes his nature, and to what he had authorized for his worship that he never even weighed the possibility of authorizing or encouraging such behavior in any case whatsoever.

Open theists readily affirm God´s awareness of all knowable things past and present. Surely the open theist must admit that it is impossible for it to be the case that "it never entered God´s mind" that Israel would behave as she did. At the very least, according to open theists, God has known from all eternity that it could happen just as it did.

The passages in Jeremiah refer to the abhorrent practices of local idolatrous pagan communities around Israel. The specific behavior alluded to is the horrible act of Israel burning their children on the altars of pagan gods.

It cannot be denied that this is the behavior God is referring to through His prophet Jeremiah. However, we must note that God warned Israel against this exact sin hundreds of years earlier. Deuteronomy 12:31 warns Israel not to follow after the gods of other nations because "they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." Later, in Deut. 18:10, God warns Israel that "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire." In light of the reference to "Molech" in Jeremiah 32:35, Moses records in Leviticus 18:21 "You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech."

Now, can anyone rightly say that these statements in Isaiah accurately reflect an ignorance of God regarding the pagan practice of child sacrifice by fire?

Had God truly never considered this act? Clearly not, since He several times warns them against this very same act hundreds of years prior. These practices simply could not have entered God´s mind for the first time in Jeremiah.

Rather, we must understand that these phrases illustrate the godly hatred God has for this particular sin and the supreme displeasure God has in His children in participating in this sin. God is saying that this behavior is so vile, so wicked, so detestable that He does not want even to consider such a thing as happening, although, as we have seen, He in fact does know about such behavior.

AMR

God does nothing to interfere with man's free will. However there will be a judgment. Those who committ those kind of sins will be judged in the judgment and condemned to hell.

God has given man the freedom to sin. There is nothing to prevent us from going out tonight and killing someone, if we so desired. Just as we have been given a free will to sin, so we have been given a free will not to sin. The devil did not make Adam sin, he sinned by his own free will.

Man has the power to make choices. He can choose good or he can choose evil. I know of some people that are atheist and cultist that can outshine most Christians ten to one. No, they are not saved, yet they have the power to do good works.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
God does nothing to interfere with man's free will. However there will be a judgment. Those who committ those kind of sins will be judged in the judgment and condemned to hell.

God has given man the freedom to sin. There is nothing to prevent us from going out tonight and killing someone, if we so desired. Just as we have been given a free will to sin, so we have been given a free will not to sin. The devil did not make Adam sin, he sinned by his own free will.

Man has the power to make choices. He can choose good or he can choose evil. I know of some people that are atheist and cultist that can outshine most Christians ten to one. No, they are not saved, yet they have the power to do good works.

Invalid comments and fables!
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Right, just like today. His sheep hear his voice and follow him. The fact of past sin is not an issue. Those who not his sheep do not follow him. They flee. The number of sheep are not an issue either. 1, 8000 or a Brazilian. All the same to him. His sheep follow. Sheep of the other fellow can not and will not follow Christ.


God would be unjust to impose salvation on some but not all.

If God saves by predestination, why didn't he predestinate all to be saved? Why just some? Why not all?
 

Brother Ducky

New member
God would be unjust to impose salvation on some but not all.

If God saves by predestination, why didn't he predestinate all to be saved? Why just some? Why not all?

Not sure that imposition is a good way of looking at it. But regardless, how would God be unjust if he imposed salvation on some and not others? Why would justice demand that that which is done for one must necessarily be done for all?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Not sure that imposition is a good way of looking at it. But regardless, how would God be unjust if he imposed salvation on some and not others? Why would justice demand that that which is done for one must necessarily be done for all?

Simply because it is the right thing to do.

Do you think that it is right for parents to make a difference in their children for no particular reason?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Amen.

Yet they wickedly persist in questioning the Workings of The Almighty Rom. 9:20-21; Dan. 4:35!

:nono:

~~~~~

If he can predestinate some to eternal life, he can predestinate all to eternal life.

The one who turns water into wine, Makes blind eyes to see, Heals the sick, Raises the dead, Feeds 5,000, Walks on water, Forgives sins, Reconciles the world unto God and justifies the ungodly, can easily predestinate all to eternal life if he so desired.

But you see he doesn't do that, because we are not robots or puppets. He wants us to come to him by our own free will. This is why Paul wrote... "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

This is something that you and B57 need to do.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
If he can predestinate some to eternal life, he can predestinate all to eternal life.

The one who turns water into wine, Makes blind eyes to see, Heals the sick, Raises the dead, Feeds 5,000, Walks on water, Forgives sins, Reconciles the world unto God and justifies the ungodly, can easily predestinate all to eternal life if he so desired.

But you see he doesn't do that, because we are not robots or puppets. He wants us to come to him by our own free will. This is why Paul wrote... "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

This is something that you and B57 need to do.


The false freewill gospel you stand for is totally opposed to the Gospel of God's Electing Grace
also known as TULIP. You are currently in a state of unbelief, blinded by the devil 2 Cor. 4:3-4,
and because we are so close to the end now, you will most-likely remain so!

~~~~~
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
The false freewill gospel you stand for is totally opposed to the Gospel of God's Electing Grace
also known as TULIP. You are currently in a state of unbelief, blinded by the devil 2 Cor. 4:3-4,
and because we are so close to the end now, you will most-likely remain so!

~~~~~

You are the one that is blind to the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

God is just, merciful and righteous in all that he does.

He did not create robots or puppets. if you are going to be saved you will have to call upon him to save you, by your own free will, otherwise you will perish, John 3:16.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
You are the one that is blind to the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

God is just, merciful and righteous in all that he does.

He did not create robots or puppets. if you are going to be saved you will have to call upon him to save you, by your own free will, otherwise you will perish, John 3:16.

Colossians 1:11-12 KJV - Colossians 1:13-14 KJV -
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
The false freewill gospel you stand for is totally opposed to the Gospel of God's Electing Grace
also known as TULIP. You are currently in a state of unbelief, blinded by the devil 2 Cor. 4:3-4,
and because we are so close to the end now, you will most-likely remain so!

~~~~~

2 Corinthians 5:18 KJV - 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV - 2 Corinthians 5:20 KJV
 

Nanja

Well-known member
You are the one that is blind to the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

God is just, merciful and righteous in all that he does.

He did not create robots or puppets. if you are going to be saved you will have to call upon him to save you, by your own free will, otherwise you will perish, John 3:16.


You keep striving, but in vain.

~~~~~
 

beloved57

Well-known member
You are the one that is blind to the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

God is just, merciful and righteous in all that he does.

He did not create robots or puppets. if you are going to be saved you will have to call upon him to save you, by your own free will, otherwise you will perish, John 3:16.

You dont believe or understand any one of those verses, you deny each of them, you also deny the saving death of Christ, teaching that many for whom He lived and died shall wind up in hell lost in their sins !
 
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