God's Truth
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All Paul is doing is reassuring the Gentiles that the Jews are not cut off permanently.
ECT Who is saved?
- Thread starter oatmeal
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All Paul is doing is reassuring the Gentiles that the Jews are not cut off permanently.
heir
TOL Subscriber
The "you Gentiles" like the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter(Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) were made partakers of Christ by the gospel with those who first trusted in Christ(Ephesians 1:12 KJV) beginning with Paul (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV) and those to whom Paul was first sent (Acts 26:17 KJV)/ heirs according to the promise (Acts 13:26 KJV, Galatians 3:29 KJV).
It appears you are asserting earlier Ephesians were being made partakers of Christ with later Ephesians and also those formerly lost Jews saved after Paul himself was.
That about right?
Rom. 14:5; 5:7, 8.
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Must be why everyone here is on the same page.
Not.
Nevertheless, Romans 14:5 towards you - in memory of Romans 5:8.
musterion
Well-known member
Name names and give examples.
:chuckle:
Might as well be observing people out on a frozen pond in ice skates in the middle of winter, only to reply "all the people in swimming trunks" when asked 'who is out on that pond?'
Nevertheless, Rom. 14:5; 5:7,8.
Grip Docility
New member
Required,
One Copy of the Lambs book of life. Obtain it, and you will have your answer.
oatmeal
Well-known member
thanks, but I know I am saved, that I have eternal life, I John 5:13
I met the requirements of Romans 10:9-10 and I have the spiritual proof.
Those who are saved in this age of grace are those who met the two requirements of Romans 10:9-10
Hi and , why not tell him where the Lamb's book of life is found , Rev 21:27 and then say that this is for Israel and NOT the Body of Christ !!
dan p
Grip Docility
New member
Only because you have taken what was meant to be moderately humorous and gotten specific about. The book that Moses referred to and God asserted control over is discussed in revelation. I am okay with you sharing more about this and I will read what you write.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Receive the love of the truth and be saved (by faith trusting the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) or believe not and be damned (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV).
Hi and I only reply , as to what I see written and am terrible at mind reading !!
dan p
oatmeal
Well-known member
So what does it take for an individual to meet those two requirements to receive the gift of salvation?
Do they have to be living a perfect life? No, if they were they would have no need to be saved.
Do they have to perfectly understand all scripture? No, that is impossible for we will be honing our knowledge of scripture for a lifetime and that is not enough.
Scripture is "so tremendous, so rich" VP Wierwille, that we could not possibly get it all even if we lived to be a hundred or 900.
Do we have to know something more about Jesus Christ to confess him as lord? Probably, most people would want some evidence that he is lord, that would take a broader knowledge and understanding than simply mouthing "the lord Jesus" for we are to confess with our mouth, not just simply say a couple of words
Likewise to understand that God raised him from the dead, we would have to comprehend the concept of God to some degree, we would have to understand the concept of death, ie, the absence of life, thus an absence of memory, consciousness, etc., we would have to understand that it took God to raise the lord Jesus from the dead, that is a separate entity raised him, he did not raise himself, if we were to believe in our heart that Jesus raised himself, then Romans 10:9-10 would have said that.
After all, surely we should believe that God knows what he is talking about!
turbosixx
New member
Thanks for the reply.
You say the fellow heirs are those who first trusted in Christ beginning with Paul but looking at the context and Paul’s explanation from “you Gentiles” 2:11 to “fellow hers” 3:6. It doesn’t sound like he is talking about those that came after him.
Could you please explain your point using the context?
Hi and there are 3 views !!
#1 , That the Gentiles are fellow heirs with Isarel and the NIV translations adopts this view !!
#2 , That the Gentiles are fellow heirs with saved Jews in the Body of Christ 11
#3 That the Gentiles are fellow heirs with the RISEN Christ . Rom 8:17 is the controlloing verse , JOINT HEIRS WITH THE RISEN CHRIST , , not found in the OT !~!
This is just the beginning of explaining Eph 3:6 !!
Robert C Brock has the best explanation of Ephesians I have ever seen on Ephesians !!
dan p
I hold to #s 2 and 3 there, as the One New Man.
# 1 there is Prophecy - Israel over the Gentiles, and is now on hold.
In contrast, #s 2 and 3 are Mystery - formerly lost Jews and Gentiles, this side of Israel's fall in Acts 7 and beginning with Paul.
THAT is who Paul is talking about in Ephesians 2.
The exact same people, spiritually, as Romans 1-3.
And you obviously do not see the view heir, and company hold to.
Their view is that in Ephesians 2, Paul is talking about an EARLIER Body of Christ together with EARLIER Ephesian Gentiles merging with LATER Gentiles and or later Ephesian Gentiles into one Body.
Theirs is the result of an attempt to solve for various seeming discrepancies but in a manner similar to how the Acts 28ers approach it.
This is why one individual has rightly called their view The Acts 9 / Acts 28 Hybrid System.
Because heir's and company, is the result of a mixing together of how the Acts 9 Position approaches these things with how the Acts 28 Position does.
Whether they do that aware or unaware that that is what they are doing, the result is nevertheless the same - they have ended up neither Acts 9, nor Acts 28 - on that much - but at a hybrid or mix, of both, into their own "one new man."
Of course, to even point any of this out to them, gets them all in an uproar - the very people who expect others who disagree with them, to hear them out.
I'll give them "tribute where tribute is due" - at the same time, I continue to find the whole affair both fascinating, and amusing.
Gotta love my way too serious - ALMOST 28ers :chuckle:
Rom. 14:5; 5:7,8.
What you are picking up on from their assertions, is that their conclusions are simply a result of a neglect of various rules of grammar.
Its why their narrative rightly does not appear to you to follow the flow of Paul's there, but instead appears to break from it, into their own.
Ask various of them who Romans 2:17's "thou art called a Jew" is referring to.
You'll find the same interruption in the flow of Paul's narrative, into their own.
This is a key pattern in various of their assertions within their version of Mid-Acts.
Personally, I find such things fascinating, as I have always been fascinated with how perception works in various people.
Rom. 14:5.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus is Lord over all. God is God over all and Jesus tells us how to be children of God.
You can no longer be called a child of God just because you are a Jew/blood related to Abraham.
You have to be related to Jesus to be a child of God; you have to take his flesh and blood to be a part of him.
All who are in him are a part of him and are HEIRS.