God's Truth
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Too bad you feel that way.
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Too bad you feel that way.
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Too bad that you do it.
musterion
Well-known member
Peter attempted to physically prevent the crucifixion, saying he was not going to allow anyone to harm Christ. If he could have stopped it, Peter would have.
Now...the crucifixion, death, burial and resurrection of Christ for the sin and justification of all is Paul's good news.
That's what Peter tried to stop.
Before that, they didn't know He was going to die.
There's only one conclusion: the good news preached prior to the Cross could not have been Paul's good news. The good news they preached involved a living, reigning King...not a murdered and risen Savior.
In other words, two gospels.
Now...the crucifixion, death, burial and resurrection of Christ for the sin and justification of all is Paul's good news.
That's what Peter tried to stop.
Before that, they didn't know He was going to die.
There's only one conclusion: the good news preached prior to the Cross could not have been Paul's good news. The good news they preached involved a living, reigning King...not a murdered and risen Savior.
In other words, two gospels.
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I do often wonder how people can be so dumb as to believe that the twelve were preaching the gospel of the grace of God when Christ sent them out in Matt 10, when they didn't even know that Jesus had to die.
God's Truth
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No, not after Jesus taught him and after Peter was strengthened in the truth. You don't know those scriptures do you?
Jesus taught it. You don't know the scriptures do you?
Peter was REINSTATED after that.
You are badly mistaken not knowing the scriptures, for even Jesus' ENEMIES KNEW, for they guarded the tomb for that very reason.
Wow.
Jesus said he was going to the Father.
No such thing.
musterion
Well-known member
Answer this one question FROM SCRIPTURE WITH CHAPTER AND VERSE:
WHEN does the Bible say Peter realized and believed that Christ was meant to die and rise from the dead?
It tells us very plainly when that was but I bet you won't even try to answer it honestly.
God's Truth
New member
You: “Peter attempted to physically prevent the crucifixion, saying he was not going to allow anyone to harm Christ. If he could have stopped it, Peter would have.”
Me: “No, not after Jesus taught him and after Peter was strengthened in the truth. You don't know those scriptures do you?
You: “Answer this one question FROM SCRIPTURE WITH CHAPTER AND VERSE:
Me: “Matthew 16:22Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. “Far be it from You, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to You!” 23But Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”24Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.”
Notice that Jesus explained to Peter that he would have to DENY himself and TAKE UP HIS CROSS.
Jesus is explaining that he would die by the cross and Peter would too.
We see where Jesus reinstates Peter and tells him to "follow me". Peter followed Jesus to his own death.
John 21:19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”
Jesus Reinstates Peter
15When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”
“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”
16Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”
17The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Feed my sheep. 18Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” 19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”
You: “WHEN does the Bible say Peter realized and believed that Christ was meant to die and rise from the dead? “
Me: “ I just explained it to you and there are many more scriptures.
You: "It tells us very plainly when that was but I bet you won't even try to answer it honestly."
Me: "How do you ever get that I would not have scriptures for what I say?"
God's Truth
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Here are more scriptures where Jesus says that Peter would be strengthened.
Luke 22:31 Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith will not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”
Luke 22:31 Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith will not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”
God's Truth
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Jesus preached to his disciples that he would have to die.
Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
Luke 9:22 And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."
Luke 9:44
"Let these words sink into your ears: The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men."
Luke 24:44
Jesus said to them, "These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms."
Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
Luke 9:22 And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."
Luke 9:44
"Let these words sink into your ears: The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men."
Luke 24:44
Jesus said to them, "These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms."
musterion
Well-known member
Luke 18:34
Luke 24
So that's the answer to my earlier question, When did Peter realize that Christ was meant to die and rise again? The answer is, no earlier than Luke 24 because only then were their minds opened to it.
That means the 12 cannot have been preaching the death, burial and resurrection before that point. They didn't understand the meaning of what He said. It was hidden from them.
That means they were preaching a different gospel...the good news of the Kingdom...the living King. They were not preaching Paul's gospel of grace, the good news of Christ and Him crucified.
Two gospels.
heir
TOL Subscriber
not to mention a divisive jerk
musterion
Well-known member
heir
TOL Subscriber
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
heir
TOL Subscriber
Why did you break up the phrase of "the dispensation of the grace of God" that RD made mention?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
To what end, exactly?
But the point is that although, you might be implying by your above, that you do not hold that Paul's "a dispensation of the gospel" is not the same as "the dispensation of the grace of God" or that the Mystery in Romans 16 is not the same as the Mystery in Ephesians 3, and so forth and so on, several of your pals on here do.
Just like the actual Acts 28ers also assert, only those on here who assert that do so from within a hybrid or fusion with the Acts 9 position.
Personally, though I point that and others of their errors out, I don't have a real issue with said errors, for other than the obvious hole somewhere within their study approach that points to, it does not impact their salvation; which is a different issue
I actually find all views ever fascinating. Each actually challenging one as to one's own understanding.
Most of my posts will tend to be more about the grace-lessness and shameful high-fiving of such towards one another, against anyone who opposes MAD in general.
By the way, Musti, when I posted that link to a post that went into some detail on said hybrid views, you yourself made a stink about it.
Is your asserted bad memory really that bad these days. I hope not; that kind of memory loss is obviously quite a day to day irritant for many.
Rom. 5:8.
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Rubbish; you simply expect any MAD not holding to your errors to keep their mouths shut - even as you openly accuse any MADs who do not hold your errors as being "enemies."
It is one thing to hold understandings different from others MADs, but that is not your great shame - yours is that you are an extremist in every sense of that word.
You are right in your own fool mind.
Fool mind in that you insist any one who points out your errors to you, or calls you and your pals on your double-talk to others, is being divisive.
That is just your screwed up religiously rigid personality - it has nothing to do with whether your views are sound or not.
Those are two different issues, clueless.
I owe you no such "fellowship."
Rom. 5:8.
God's Truth
New member
How do you ever get that means Jesus didn't teach it to them?
Luke 24:44
Jesus said to them, "These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms."
Even the enemies of Jesus know that Jesus preached he was going to die and rise again.
You can't get around the truth.
You do not acknowledge the truth that Jesus is the good news. Paul isn't the good news, Jesus is.
Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,
Acts 5:42
Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.
Acts 8:35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
Acts 10:36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
Acts 11:20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.
Jesus is the good news.
Jesus was preached.
Forgiveness through him.
When he was lifted up, crucified, then forgiveness through him for all.
As Paul says, Jews FIRST then Gentiles.
Same gospel,just Jews first then after Jesus was crucified the Gentiles could be included.
Again, Jesus is the good news and since his crucifixion he is for all.
Jesus is not divided.
Stop making Paul into someone who puts a curse on himself.