ECT Who is saved?

[oatmeal]

The gift is to children of God, it is the REWARD of an inheritance of eternal life.

Jesus and Paul say the same thing.

Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.


You all are afraid to obey Jesus and blame it on Paul is beyond pathetic.

Paul was a Pharisee and taught people to obey the ceremonial works as the Jews did for over 1,600 years and it was called the works of the law. Those works justified people and those are the works that Paul was saying that no longer save.

It is the most bizarre thing ever to hear Christians say they did not obey Jesus but just believed to get saved. It is where the false Calvin doctrine comes from because they preach the ultimate do nothing to get saved, not even believe.

If is a reward, then it is wages for works.

Salvation is not a wage we can earn, but we can believe to receive it as the gift it is.

Inheritance is inheritance.

A gift is a gift.

Wages are wages

Rewards are rewards

They are not the same thing

God knows the differences between those words and He uses them to exactly express what He wants to communicate.

No one's interpretation of God's words is of no value to God or anyone else.

 

[turbosixx]

You're confusing the various "salvation's" in the Bible.

Luke 1:66-73 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:66) And all they that heard [them] laid [them] up in their hearts, saying, What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him. (1:67) And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, (1:68) Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, (1:69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; (1:70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: (1:71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; (1:72) To perform the mercy [promised] to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; (1:73) The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, ​

I don't see how I'm confusing salvation because the context explains the salvation it's talking about. In Romans looking at 1:1-7 it's clear Paul is talking about the gospel that gives us grace through Christ and the gospel that he was set apart for.

Also, he wants to preach the gospel to them then describes it as the power of God unto salvation.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

If he's talking about a salvation other than that of the soul, I would be glad to hear what you have to say.

If he's talking about salvation of the soul, when do you see it first preached to the Jews since it was to the Jew first?

 

[Right Divider]

I agree. Paul uses the same Greek word and then tells them IF making it conditional. It's present and future as long as they hold fast the word.

1 Cor. 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.

If is not always a conditional and even here is clearly qualified with the UNLESS...

Did you ever look at the book of Joel in its context and its entirety?

 

[Right Divider]

I don't see how I'm confusing salvation because the context explains the salvation it's talking about. In Romans looking at 1:1-7 it's clear Paul is talking about the gospel that gives us grace through Christ and the gospel that he was set apart for.

Paul does NOT call it the gospel of the grace of God. He is speaking about the gospel of Christ, which is clear in the text.

Also, he wants to preach the gospel to them then describes it as the power of God unto salvation.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

If he's talking about a salvation other than that of the soul, I would be glad to hear what you have to say.

Is the gospel of the grace of God identical to the gospel of Christ? No, there are subtle differences. But both have Christ in them.

Paul was the first to preach the gospel of the grace of God. He's the only one that mentions it. It was given to him.

If he's talking about salvation of the soul, when do you see it first preached to the Jews since it was to the Jew first?

The "Jew first" is clearly not related to the time where God's grace is freely given to all without distinction. Late in Romans 1 and all through Romans 2, Paul is speaking in the context of the past. Do you think that Paul is speaking to "neither Jew nor Greek" when he says "Behold, thou art called a Jew..."?

 

[Danoh]

I agree. Paul uses the same Greek word and then tells them IF making it conditional. It's present and future as long as they hold fast the word.

1 Cor. 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.

Nope, that salvation there in that passage in 1 Cor. 15 is salvation from the error some had attempted to inject into their beliefs - the error that Christ had not risen from the dead.

Just as the "unless you have believed in vain" is referring to "unless what I delivered unto you - that Christ died for your sins and rose again - was untrue, baseless, vain, or devoid of truth... "

:chuckle: :doh:

The study principle there is clear.

It is the simple question "what is he talking about when he then alludes to, if not then adds to what he is talking about, what he then adds to it?"

And he is talking about a lie he wants to deliver them out of, or save them from - which is what sound understanding...believed...is meant to result in.

It is why he reminds them there that what he had applied to them about The Resurrection, he had applied to them right out of the Scripture itself...

Even that one little statement about the Scripture there, contains an ocean of teaching...

Or as he would later remind Timothy...

2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

My point - one can't just go by any one word. In this case, the word "saved."

There is ever much behind every one of the Words of Scripture that one is required to conduct a thorough study of.

Rom. 5:8.

 

[Danoh]

Paul does NOT call it the gospel of the grace of God. He is speaking about the gospel of Christ, which is clear in the text.


Is the gospel of the grace of God identical to the gospel of Christ? No, there are subtle differences. But both have Christ in them.

Paul was the first to preach the gospel of the grace of God. He's the only one that mentions it. It was given to him.


The "Jew first" is clearly not related to the time where God's grace is freely given to all without distinction. Late in Romans 1 and all through Romans 2, Paul is speaking in the context of the past. Do you think that Paul is speaking to "neither Jew nor Greek" when he says "Behold, thou art called a Jew..."?

You may or may not have finally gotten clear on who Paul was actually referring to by "thou art called a Jew" but you obviously remain confused on this supposed difference between phrase "the gospel of Christ" and the phrase "the gospel of the grace of God."

Now watch one of your pals come along to attempt to call me on what is my supposed error on this, even as you allow one of your own - GD - to continue to flounder in her Dispensational inconsistencies in her Charismatic confusion.

You guys are some group of characters :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8.

 

[God's Truth]

If is a reward, then it is wages for works.

Are you blind? I gave you scriptures.

Salvation is not a wage we can earn, but we can believe to receive it as the gift it is.

I give you scriptures and you resort to some false teachers mantra.

Inheritance is inheritance.

A gift is a gift.

Wages are wages

Rewards are rewards

They are not the same thing

I gave you scriptures proving it is.

God knows the differences between those words and He uses them to exactly express what He wants to communicate.

No one's interpretation of God's words is of no value to God or anyone else.

God's words are plainly written. Believe.

 

[God's Truth]

Paul does NOT call it the gospel of the grace of God. He is speaking about the gospel of Christ, which is clear in the text.


Is the gospel of the grace of God identical to the gospel of Christ? No, there are subtle differences. But both have Christ in them.

Paul was the first to preach the gospel of the grace of God. He's the only one that mentions it. It was given to him.


The "Jew first" is clearly not related to the time where God's grace is freely given to all without distinction. Late in Romans 1 and all through Romans 2, Paul is speaking in the context of the past. Do you think that Paul is speaking to "neither Jew nor Greek" when he says "Behold, thou art called a Jew..."?

Paul calls the the gospel that he preached many different names and it was ONE GOSPEL.

Paul calls the gospel he preached the gospel of God, the Gospel of Christ, Paul’s gospel, and our gospel.

Is that four different gospels?!

 

[God's Truth]

Nope, that salvation there in that passage in 1 Cor. 15 is salvation from the error some had attempted to inject into their beliefs - the error that Christ had not risen from the dead.

Just as the "unless you have believed in vain" is referring to "unless what I delivered unto you - that Christ died for your sins and rose again - was untrue, baseless, vain, or devoid of truth... "

:chuckle: :doh:

The study principle there is clear.

It is the simple question "what is he talking about when he then alludes to, if not then adds to what he is talking about, what he then adds to it?"

And he is talking about a lie he wants to deliver them out of, or save them from - which is what sound understanding...believed...is meant to result in.

It is why he reminds them there that what he had applied to them about The Resurrection, he had applied to them right out of the Scripture itself...

Even that one little statement about the Scripture there, contains an ocean of teaching...

Or as he would later remind Timothy...

2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

My point - one can't just go by any one word. In this case, the word "saved."

There is ever much behind every one of the Words of Scripture that one is required to conduct a thorough study of.

Rom. 5:8.

Are you kidding? Paul is speaking to BELIEVERS, and he is telling them how not to lose their salvation and believe in vain.

What is wrong with you people not wanting to preach obedience to Christ?

 

[God's Truth]

You're confusing the various "salvation's" in the Bible.

Luke 1:66-73 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:66) And all they that heard [them] laid [them] up in their hearts, saying, What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him. (1:67) And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, (1:68) Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, (1:69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; (1:70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: (1:71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; (1:72) To perform the mercy [promised] to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; (1:73) The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, ​

Various salvation?! That is some mixed up thinking to protect a belief that can't be defended. Every time someone gives you scripture that proves we have to believe and obey, and proof that there is only one gospel that saves...you come up with oh no that is another gospel, no that is another salvation.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul calls the the gospel that he preached many different names and it was ONE GOSPEL.

Show us where Paul this one gospel many different names.

Paul calls the gospel he preached the gospel of God, the Gospel of Christ, Paul’s gospel, and our gospel.

There is overlap among the various GOOD NEWS's that God has given.

Is that four different gospels?!

At least.

 

[Right Divider]

Various salvation?! That is some mixed up thinking to protect a belief that can't be defended. Every time someone gives you scripture that proves we have to believe and obey, and proof that there is only one gospel that saves...you come up with oh no that is another gospel, no that is another salvation.

So according to the bizarre world of GT, salvation from their enemies is identical to salvation from their sins?

You're insane.

 

[God's Truth]

Show us where Paul this one gospel many different names.

Paul calls it the GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

Romans 15:19 by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

2 Corinthians 2:12[ Ministers of the New Covenant ] Now when I went to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ and found that the Lord had opened a door for me,

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

2 Corinthians 10:14 We are not going too far in our boasting, as would be the case if we had not come to you, for we did get as far as you with the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 1:7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

Philippians 1:27 [ Life Worthy of the Gospel ] Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel

1 Thessalonians 3:2 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and co-worker in God’s service in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,


Paul also calls it OUR GOSPEL:

2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.

2 Thessalonians 2:14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul AND PETER call it the Gospel of God.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—

Romans 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 11:7 Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge?

1 Thessalonians 2:8 so we cared for you. Because we loved you so much, we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well.

1 Thessalonians 2:9 Surely you remember, brothers and sisters, our toil and hardship; we worked night and day in order not to be a burden to anyone while we preached the gospel of God to you.

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

1 Thessalonians 2:2 We had previously suffered and been treated outrageously in Philippi, as you know, but with the help of our God we dared to tell you his gospel in the face of strong opposition.

 

[God's Truth]

So according to the bizarre world of GT, salvation from their enemies is identical to salvation from their sins?

You're insane.

There is only one gospel that saves and one salvation.

Being saved and having salvation is the same thing.

Jesus tells us how to live our lives with our enemies, and he tells us this as part of our total salvation with him.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul calls it the GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

Romans 15:19 by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

2 Corinthians 2:12[ Ministers of the New Covenant ] Now when I went to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ and found that the Lord had opened a door for me,

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

2 Corinthians 10:14 We are not going too far in our boasting, as would be the case if we had not come to you, for we did get as far as you with the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 1:7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

Philippians 1:27 [ Life Worthy of the Gospel ] Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel

1 Thessalonians 3:2 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and co-worker in God’s service in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,


Paul also calls it OUR GOSPEL:

2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.

2 Thessalonians 2:14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul AND PETER call it the Gospel of God.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—

Romans 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 11:7 Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge?

1 Thessalonians 2:8 so we cared for you. Because we loved you so much, we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well.

1 Thessalonians 2:9 Surely you remember, brothers and sisters, our toil and hardship; we worked night and day in order not to be a burden to anyone while we preached the gospel of God to you.

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

1 Thessalonians 2:2 We had previously suffered and been treated outrageously in Philippi, as you know, but with the help of our God we dared to tell you his gospel in the face of strong opposition.

You assume that these are all completely identical.

 

[God's Truth]

You assume that these are all completely identical.

They are.

 

[Right Divider]

There is only one gospel that saves and one salvation.

Being saved and having salvation is the same thing.

Jesus tells us how to live our lives with our enemies, and he tells us this as part of our total salvation with him.

There you go CHANGING the subject AGAIN.... you are such a DECEITFUL one.

Is salvation from their enemies identical to salvation from their sins?

 

[Right Divider]

They are.

Then why are the QUALIFIED with DIFFERENT qualifiers?

If there were truly just one gospel, as you claim, then it would always simply be called "the gospel".

 

[God's Truth]

Then why are the QUALIFIED with DIFFERENT qualifiers?

If there were truly just one gospel, as you claim, then it would always simply be called "the gospel".

That is something you need to come to terms with.

How does one come to the truth and get knowledge?

They repent and ask God for forgiveness for believing and following false beliefs.

I have done that myself and I have been saved.

 

[Right Divider]

That is something you need to come to terms with.

How does one come to the truth and get knowledge?

They repent and ask God for forgiveness for believing and following false beliefs.

I have done that myself and I have been saved.

More evasion.