ECT Which Gospel?

[Interplanner]

Hold on, things are getting really mixed up.

When they arrived: they were non-Christian Jews observing Pentecost. they were from all over the empire of Rome.

When they left: they were Jewish Christians going back to all their countries, having miraculously heard the same Aramaic message in their own language.

A real kick-start to the mission to the nations!

 

[achduke]

A real kick-start to the mission to the nations!

So which Gospel would the 3000+ have been taking to the nations?

That is quite a kick start.

Act 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord ADDED to the church daily those who were being saved.

So which Gospel did these 3000 and growing and spreading across the nations believe?

Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.

You are correct that these people were Jews and from all nations. So obviously they were not all cut off as in Romans 11:20. The one body has lots of Israelis and Gentiles at this point all being grafted together as one.

 

[Interplanner]

The Gospel of forgiveness of sins through Christ, 2:38. That is the same gospel that was promised to the fathers in Genesis.

God does not work with whole ethnos at a time. That is why there are exceptions to the trees of Rom 11B. There is always a remnant, an elect. He is done with that whole-ethnos-at-a-time thing, which is a misconception by Judaism anyway. 11:30: all activity is now through and upon Jesus Christ the Seed.

It is Judaism that has to be convinced that the individual can believe the Gospel, no matter what group or class he belongs to. It is not a problem in the Christian community, generally.

 

[achduke]

The Gospel of forgiveness of sins through Christ, 2:38. That is the same gospel that was promised to the fathers in Genesis.

God does not work with whole ethnos at a time. That is why there are exceptions to the trees of Rom 11B. There is always a remnant, an elect. He is done with that whole-ethnos-at-a-time thing, which is a misconception by Judaism anyway. 11:30: all activity is now through and upon Jesus Christ the Seed.

It is Judaism that has to be convinced that the individual can believe the Gospel, no matter what group or class he belongs to. It is not a problem in the Christian community, generally.

But it is also a problem with some Christians when they claim two gospels seperating the body. Judaism has been cut off but believing Jews have not.

 

[turbosixx]

It says

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Anyone who will study their Bible can see that Israel looks forward to the blotting out of their sins!

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Ok, I'm trying to understand your line of thinking here. When Peter said this, were they still looking to the future to have their sins blotted out?

 

[Interplanner]

But it is also a problem with some Christians when they claim two gospels seperating the body. Judaism has been cut off but believing Jews have not.

They are mistaken in how they are reconstructing NT history. And mistaken in how they read Gal 1-2.

 

[Interplanner]

The future? No, this is true for any person who believes upon believing upon Christ's sacrifice for them. The blessing of being justified from our sins is the blessing promised to Abraham, Gal 3, Acts 13's sermon (this point is the climax of the sermon!)

 

[Danoh]

But it is also a problem with some Christians when they claim two gospels seperating the body. Judaism has been cut off but believing Jews have not.

A thought... if Interplanner - who does not even understand where we are coming from - had to correct you on who those at Pentecost in Acts 2 were when it is obvious from studying out the passages that they "were Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven;" its no surprise you would conclude that what we are supposedly asserting by "two gospels" is "one gospel for Jews and another one for Gentiles."

Obviously, you did not read my posts carefully.

By the way, contrary to the tradition of many Partial Preterists; if not all of them; note how Acts 2 uses term "Jews" and "Israel" interchangeably, just as Mid-Acts Dispensationalism has asserted all along - that that by time Matthew forward, the two terms are used at times used interchangeably.

Where do we get this "history" - from Scripture.

You guys might want to try believing 2 Timothy 3:16-17 as to what it asserts, one of these days.

Then again, perhaps the Spirit was off, and all the answers are not in Scripture; rather, in lost people like Josephus...

You guys are real characters...

 

[john w]

You say the 12 preached the kingdom come before the DBR and not the gospel.

What a mess.. You missed it. I asserted that the 12, including Judas, preached the good news, gospel, of the kingdom-you misquoted me, leaving out "gospel," which you do not know what the term means. To wit?:


"the 12 preached....not the gospel."-you

=you, like others, assert only one piece of good news/gospel in the bible. You made that up.

No, they did preach good news-the good news of the impending arrival(at that time)of the kingdom of heaven upon the earth, "the gospel of the kingdom, but that good news did not include the dbr, the basis/foundation of our justification, the good news/gospel as Paul summarized in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

The 12, including Judas, never preached, at least prior to its occurrence, in Mt.-John, the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-this:

"Hey, everyone!!!! The Master is going to die for our sins...be buried, and raised again for our justification. Believe this good news to be saved!!!"


The dbr was hid from them, for almost 3 years. Peter, twice, attempted to prevent the Master's deaththe very death, that would reconcile him/others. After the resurrection, the 12, initially, did no believe that He had risen. And yet, during this time, the 12, including Judas, did preach the gospel/good news of the kingdom. Thus, the 12 were certainly not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to its occurrence, and thus, the good news of the kingdom, is thus not equivalent to the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

Your right, they didn't preach the gospel and didn't understand the whole plan but only proclaimed what they were instructed, And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Wrong assertion, i.e., "Your right, they didn't preach the gospel":

They certainly did preach good news, a "good news," if you will, but it was not the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV

Get this straight-"the gospel(good news) of the kingdom" is not equivalent to the good news(gospel) of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

A 6 year old can see this; most members of the boc, however, do not, taking a space walk.

 

[achduke]

A thought... if Interplanner - who does not even understand where we are coming from - had to correct you on who those at Pentecost in Acts 2 were when it is obvious from studying out the passages that they "were Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven;"

Interplanner had no reason to correct me. I was only referencing "Jews in ISRAEL"

 

[john w]

It is true they did not always understand what they were teaching during the 3.5 years but all the material for dbr was there. After Christ had died and had risen he rebuked them for not understanding then he continued and told them to go out and preach the gospel to everyone. This is the point of time when they preached the gospel.

Spin, deceit.

"After Christ had died..."

Irrelevant.


The dbr was hid from them, for almost 3 years. Peter, twice, attempted to prevent the Master's deaththe very death, that would reconcile him/others. After the resurrection, the 12, initially, did no believe that He had risen. And yet, during this time, the 12, including Judas, did preach the gospel/good news of the kingdom. Thus, the 12 were certainly not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to its occurrence, and thus, the good news of the kingdom, is thus not equivalent to the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.[/U]


A 6 year old can see it.

 

[achduke]

Spin, deceit.

"After Christ had died..."

Irrelevant.


The dbr was hid from them, for almost 3 years. Peter, twice, attempted to prevent the Master's deaththe very death, that would reconcile him/others. After the resurrection, the 12, initially, did no believe that He had risen. And yet, during this time, the 12, including Judas, did preach the gospel/good news of the kingdom. Thus, the 12 were certainly not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to its occurrence, and thus, the good news of the kingdom, is thus not equivalent to the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.[/U]


A 6 year old can see it.

It does matter what they preached after Christ had died and had risen. This is the gospel that Christ taught.

 

[achduke]

You guys might want to try believing 2 Timothy 3:16-17 as to what it asserts, one of these.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

I believe this. That is why I reference the OT and NT including Paul.

You make your posts hard to understand, spam with too much content or reference old posts which have to much content. Why not break it down precept upon precept? Then maybe we can dialogue.

 

[Interplanner]

The dbr is exactly what was explained in the 40 days before Pentecost. Nice try. In fact, the apostles did not go past it (Acts 26).

I don't know of any material by John W worth responding to. Havent' see it yet.

 

[Interplanner]

The idea of forgiveness (before the Gospel event happened) was thought of as being apart from the atonement of Christ. But it is the foregiveness of sins, and he did mention his sacrifice many times. That's the important thing, not whether they understood it. When they rebuked him, they must have understood it! Or started. But his authority to forgive was shown clear back in the first suite of miracles, Mk 2.

 

[Interplanner]

He was not offering a kingdom separate from that authority to forgive, but a kingdom because of it that was not a theocratic state with all of Judaism's worship gear in use.

 

[turbosixx]

Get this straight-"the gospel(good news) of the kingdom" is not equivalent to the good news(gospel) of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

Thanks for your reply. In my understanding the body of Christ and the kingdom are the same thing. If you see them as different, what is the kingdom in your understanding?

Here is my confusion if they are not the same, before Pentecost they proclaimed 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' and on Pentecost they proclaimed Jesus DBR. So when the 3,000 were added on Pentecost, what did the gospel added them to?

 

[Danoh]

Interplanner had no reason to correct me. I was only referencing "Jews in ISRAEL"

Yeah; sure you were...

This was preached to people from many nations not just Jews in Israel.

Act 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from EVERY NATION under heaven.

Act 2:9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,

Act 2:10 "Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,

Act 2:11 "Cretans and Arabs--we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God."

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

 

[achduke]

Yeah; sure you were...

That is just a bad edit with a cell phone with the TOL App which does not always work properly. I am having to always re-edit with a cell phone. I stated "not Jews from Israel". The believers were from all the nations not just Israel. Heir had mentioned Israel.

 

[Danoh]

That is just a bad edit with a cell phone with the TOL App which does not always work properly. I am having to always re-edit with a cell phone. I stated "not Jews from Israel". The believers were from all the nations not just Israel. Heir had mentioned Israel.

I can sympathize with that kind of a mistake in typing.

But you are still off:

Act 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

The next passages then describe what nations under heaven these devout Jews dwelling at Jerusalem out of every nation under heaven, were from, both Jews and proselytes [converts to Judaism, thus; no longer Gentiles, Esther 8:17].

Act 2:9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,

Act 2:10 "Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,

Act 2:11 "Cretans and Arabs--we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God."

By the way; take a guess at what this "dwelling at Jerusalem" is a reference to.

Here's a clue; they were observing Israelite Feast Days, and animal sacrifices were involved on a huge, huge scale, Leviticus 23.