turbosixx
New member
That's how I see it.
ECT Which Gospel?
- Thread starter Danoh
- Start date
That's how I see it.
turbosixx
New member
Is that a yes or no?
achduke
Active member
Everything taught in 1 Cor 15:1-4 was taught in the gospel before 1 Cor 15:1-4. The 11 did not understand it at the time until after Jesus had risen but it was still taught to them. Paul summed it up but it was all taught.
Matthew 26:28 "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
achduke
Active member
Mat 26:28 "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Note on the concept of Progressive Revelation that John W so nicely laid out as obvious - you ask how people were saved prior to the Cross.
Romans 3:
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Through His forbearance; God had faith in the Son's coming propitiation for the remission of sins that are past.
And when did He declare this propitiation as past; as having taken place on their behalf - "at this time" - this side of the Cross.
In fact, this side of Israel's fall, Romans 9-11.
In Hebrews 11, the writer of Hebrews; relating the finished work of the Cross to Israel, writes; concerning their past faithful ones:
39. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40. God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Thus, this side of their faith, the faith now required is the belief that "Christ was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification," Romans 4:25.
This is what makes it Dispensational - the object of faith - of what God is to be believed in about, has changed.
Compare this from Acts 16:
29. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30. And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
With is this; Earlier required object of faith - Mark 1:
14. Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
That is Mark 1 - way before the Cross some three and a half years later.
There, the gospel is "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
There, the requirement as to believing - the object of this faith is believing that "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
He doesn't tell them believe I died for your sins. And yet, it to is a gospel of, a good news concerning, Christ - Mark 1:
1. The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
The gospel, or good news, not that He died for their sins, rather; that He is the Son of God.
achduke
Active member
Yet it is by faith that they are saved in all cases. The Gospel(Good News) does evolve as it is fulfilled and more mystery is revealed but where is the end times promise different?
See my long winded; post #19, here:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4388841#post4388841
achduke
Active member
Can you quote it here and give me the cliff notes. Perhaps I missed it but I did not see where you talk about the end-times promise and what it really is.
What verse demands that I answer any of your trap questions?
Yes or no: your saint Judas preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4.
I'm a director, here; you are one of the dancers.
Its ever interesting; they supposedly have all, if not most, of the answers.
And yet; though we always know where they are coming; they are always asking what is it that we are talking about ["cliff notes, please," for short.]
Gets tiresome...
Made up. The dbr was hid from them for almost 3 years. And yet, during this time, the 12, including Judas, did preach the gospel/good news of the kingdom. Thus, the good news of the kingdom, is thus not equivalent to the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.
Would you happen to have cliff notes on that; for some reason I can't get myself to simply read through the Scriptures as to these issues.
Its why I reject them. But send the cliff notes, please.
achduke
Active member
It is not made up. This was the just before Christ died. By the time of the Pentecost they were made to understand. Also notice Judas was not among them.
Luk 24:45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
Mark 16:11 And when they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe.
Mark 16:14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Matthew 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
Mat 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 "teaching them to observe ALL things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
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turbosixx
New member
You being all knowing I thought you would be able to enlighten the rest of us.
Did Peter preach the gospel or the kingdom on Pentecost?
turbosixx
New member
Sorry to bother your greatness.
turbosixx
New member
So you agree he preached the gospel, dbr of Jesus.
Only as Israel's Prophesied Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36.
And that is this here - John 1:
49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 20:
28. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
This was why they were pricked in their heart - their realization they had crucified Him, He had risen, and His Prophesied wrath was next:
Mathew 3:
7. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8. Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9. And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Acts 2:
19. And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22. Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
40. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Acts 3:
18. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
turbosixx
New member
Peter preached the gospel, the DBR of Jesus that is able to forgive man's sins. Does the audience matter?
Jesus didn't say go to Jews only but everyone in the world.
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them
If you'll slow down and think on it a moment, you'll note I have been basing my assertions on more than one passage or two.
Do yourself a favor and do likewise as to those two passages you just asserted what you have about.
And do what the Lord did in Luke 24, and what the Spirit did through Peter - allow the OT to interpret intended sense of those two NT passages you have just cited in support of you off-base assertion.
Start by asking why the Lord said "Thus it behooved... and that repentance," etc., in Luke 24.
A clue - He was obviously referring to OT references as to the order of how their commission was to expand out to the nations from Jerusalem.
Try Mark 7:27's "first." Or Acts 3: 26's "first."
For that matter; why "beginning at Jerusalem?"
Let's cheat - let's actually rely on Scripture over our own notions - try Isaiah 2:1-5, or Isaiah 66.