when did Peter use the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven ?

[Hoping]

It didn't seem to happen based on baptism (Acts 19:6 (KJV) And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.), and it seems not to have happened every time. (1 Corinthians 12:30 (KJV)
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?)

If baptism is symbolized by water, but effected internally by the Holy Spirit, that's still just one baptism. Just like your reference to 1Cor 12, which is following up on what Paul talked about in ch 10--1 Corinthians 10:2-4 (KJV) 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
If they were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, it was still just one baptism--the sea was the water and the cloud was the presence of God's Spirit.

Seeing as you have touched on four different baptisms, for us to continue thinking there is in fact only one baptism is ludicrous.
Paul's words saying there is only one must be considered in this way...There is one baptism administered by God, (and one baptism administered by men).

 

[Idolater]

Seeing as you have touched on four different baptisms, for us to continue thinking there is in fact only one baptism is ludicrous.
Paul's words saying there is only one must be considered in this way...There is one baptism administered by God, (and one baptism administered by men).

There is one baptism (which is a washing, and there were a lot of washings in the Old Testament, John the Washer's washing being the ultimate OT washing, for sins) that is valid today. [Dispensaionalists] claim the one valid baptism today is entirely invisible, while Catholicism believes that basically yes it is invisible, except that frequently we also visibly water baptize intended to coordinate if not to the second, with the invisible baptism of the Holy Spirit, which we agree with Dispensationalism is an invisible, eternal event.

 

[Right Divider]

It didn't seem to happen based on baptism (Acts 19:6 (KJV) And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.), and it seems not to have happened every time. (1 Corinthians 12:30 (KJV)
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?)

Regardless... tongues, etc. are no longer in use. That shows that these events are "outdated".

If baptism is symbolized by water,

It's not. Water baptism as a Jewish (Israelite) cleansing ceremony for their priesthood. It has no place in the body of Christ.

but effected internally by the Holy Spirit, that's still just one baptism.

Nowhere in the "gospels" or in "early Acts" will you find Spirit baptism.

Just like your reference to 1Cor 12, which is following up on what Paul talked about in ch 10--1 Corinthians 10:2-4 (KJV) 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Who is "we"? The scripture says "they". The "baptism into Moses" has nothing to do with water baptism.

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
If they were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, it was still just one baptism--the sea was the water and the cloud was the presence of God's Spirit.

Nope, there are many baptisms for the nation of Israel. Heb 6:2

You are trying to force the Bible to agree with you instead of just letting it speak for itself.

 

[Hoping]

There is one baptism (which is a washing, and there were a lot of washings in the Old Testament, John the Washer's washing being the ultimate OT washing, for sins) that is valid today. Dispies claim the one valid baptism today is entirely invisible, while Catholicism believes that basically yes it is invisible, except that frequently we also visibly water baptize intended to coordinate if not to the second, with the invisible baptism of the Holy Spirit, which we agree with Dispensationalism is an invisible, eternal event.

The Christians I know believe that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is done with water.
They believe if a man turns from sin permanently, (repents of sin), he will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...which is also called the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Peter laid it out perfectly in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Do one baptism and receive the other from God.

 

[Hoping]

Regardless... tongues, etc. are no longer in use. That shows that these events are "outdated".

I can't agree with you there.

It's not. Water baptism as a Jewish (Israelite) cleansing ceremony for their priesthood. It has no place in the body of Christ.

That is because you don't believe converted Jews are Christians too.

Nowhere in the "gospels" or in "early Acts" will you find Spirit baptism.

Actually, it is found on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:2-18.
Thanks be to God.
It was also demonstrated at the home of Cornelius.

 

[Right Divider]

I can't agree with you there.

Your opinion on the subject is meaningless.

That is because you don't believe converted Jews are Christians too.

In the body of Christ there is neither Jew NOR Greek (gentile). Gal 3:28

Actually, it is found on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:2-18.

Nope, the lawfully required Jewish feast day has nothing to do with the body of Christ.

Thanks be to God.
It was also demonstrated at the home of Cornelius.

Cornelius was a righteous gentile that blessed Israel. Again, nothing to do with the body of Christ.

 

[Hoping]

Your opinion on the subject is meaningless.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

In the body of Christ there is neither Jew NOR Greek (gentile). Gal 3:28

Great, as I was thinking you had lumped all the Jewish members of the body of Christ into the Jewish unbeliever's camp.

Nope, the lawfully required Jewish feast day has nothing to do with the body of Christ.

I know NT Christians don't celebrate any of the OT feast days/occasions of remembrance.
It just happened to be the day the baptism of the Holy Spirit was first given to the church by Christ Jesus.

Cornelius as a righteous gentile that blessed Israel. Again, nothing to do with the body of Christ.

Nothing except that he was the first Gentile grafted into the holy Root.
The first Gentile baptized into Christ, the first Gentile to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost/baptism of the Spirit.
A landmark event for the church by Christ Jesus/body of Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

It just happened to be the day the baptism of the Holy Spirit was first given to the church by Christ Jesus.

That "church" is not the body of Christ. That "church" is Israel.

Peter was speaking only to Jews (Israelites) and proselytes (gentile converts to Judaism).

Nothing except that he was the first Gentile grafted into the holy Root.

Nonsense.

The first Gentile baptized into Christ, the first Gentile to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost/baptism of the Spirit.

Fairy story.

A landmark event for the church by Christ Jesus/body of Christ.

Fantasy.

 

[DAN P]

Seems you're working extra hard to read something into that scripture that isn't there, or maybe read something out of it that is there.

There's water in this:
Acts 19:3-6 (KJV) 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

And if you have checked the Greek text of Acts 19:3 any one will see that and ones said into the Baptisma of John .

Baptisma means that John was a Baptizer and not surprised when all want to say it means water and Baptisma is used some 22 times from Matt-- through Eph 4:5 .

dan p

 

[Derf]

Regardless... tongues, etc. are no longer in use. That shows that these events are "outdated".

Then perhaps, since belief in Christ went along with those things, it's outdated too?

It's not. Water baptism as a Jewish (Israelite) cleansing ceremony for their priesthood. It has no place in the body of Christ.

Yet the body of Christ had numerous inductees who were water baptized, like Lydia and the phillipian jailer.

Nowhere in the "gospels" or in "early Acts" will you find Spirit baptism.

Maybe when you use scare quotes you mean something different than the 4 gospels I'm familiar with?
Matthew 3:11 (KJV)
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

Mark 1:8 (KJV)
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 3:16 (KJV)
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

John 1:33 (KJV)
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Who is "we"? The scripture says "they". The "baptism into Moses" has nothing to do with water baptism.

Yet the description included the word "sea". How can you say there's no water involved?

Nope, there are many baptisms for the nation of Israel. Heb 6:2

You are trying to force the Bible to agree with you instead of just letting it speak for itself.

You might take a look in the mirror, Brother.

 

[Derf]

And if you have checked the Greek text of Acts 19:3 any one will see that and ones said into the Baptisma of John .

Baptisma means that John was a Baptizer and not surprised when all want to say it means water and Baptisma is used some 22 times from Matt-- through Eph 4:5 .

dan p

Are you saying John's baptism was dry?

 

[Hoping]

And if you have checked the Greek text of Acts 19:3 any one will see that and ones said into the Baptisma of John .

Baptisma means that John was a Baptizer and not surprised when all want to say it means water and Baptisma is used some 22 times from Matt-- through Eph 4:5 .

dan p

What else, besides water, would one be dipped in?

 

[Idolater]

Are you saying John's baptism was dry?

What else, besides water, would one be dipped in?

It's gratifying to have you folks defending the Catholic position. I agree with your line of reasoning here.

 

[Right Divider]

Then perhaps, since belief in Christ went along with those things, it's outdated too?

Are you playing dumb or is this the real thing?

Yet the body of Christ had numerous inductees who were water baptized, like Lydia and the phillipian jailer.

And yet... God sent Paul NOT to baptize. Things change... get with the program.

Maybe when you use scare quotes you mean something different than the 4 gospels I'm familiar with?

When I spoke of "Spirit baptism", I was talking about baptism BY the Spirit and not WITH the Spirit. I know that distinctions like this are probably too much for you to understand. You cannot find the Spirit baptizing anyone in MMLJ. Nowhere in MMLJ is anyone baptized into the body of Christ.

Yet the description included the word "sea". How can you say there's no water involved?

Because those "baptized unto Moses" stayed DRY... i.e., no water involved in their baptism unto Moses.

Exod 14:29 (AKJV/PCE)
(14:29) But the children of Israel walked upon dry [land] in the midst of the sea; and the waters [were] a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

You might take a look in the mirror, Brother.

You might want to learn some things, Brother.

 

[Right Divider]

What else, besides water, would one be dipped in?

You mean like this?
Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

And this?
Mark 10:38-39 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:38) But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? (10:39) And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:

And this?
Matt 3:11 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

And this?
Luke 3:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:16) John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

 

[Derf]

It's gratifying to have you folks defending the Catholic position. I agree with your line of reasoning here.

Happy to do so, on anything the Catholics have correct.

 

[Hoping]

It's gratifying to have you folks defending the Catholic position. I agree with your line of reasoning here.

It is the actual position of the church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21).
The catholics just kept that...with heavy modifications.

 

[Hoping]

You mean like this?
Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

And this?
Mark 10:38-39 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:38) But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? (10:39) And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:

And this?
Matt 3:11 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

And this?
Luke 3:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:16) John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Were those uses of the word "baptized" done in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins?
No.
The word "baptize" can be used in multiple contexts, but the only one by which our past sins can be washed away is with water, and in the name of Jesus Christ.
Thank be to God.

 

[Right Divider]

Were those uses of the word "baptized" done in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins?

No, but that is relevant to the point. The point is that baptism is NOT exclusively water.

No.
The word "baptize" can be used in multiple contexts, but the only one by which our past sins can be washed away is with water, and in the name of Jesus Christ.
Thank be to God.

There is no water baptism for the church today. That you cling to the Jewish ceremonies is a testament to your lack of knowledge of what the Bible teaches.

Paul preaches that there is ONE baptism for the body of Christ and THAT baptism is not water. It is baptism BY the Spirit into the body (of Christ).

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Hoping]

No, but that is relevant to the point. The point is that baptism is NOT exclusively water.

It depends entirely on the context.

There is no water baptism for the church today. That you cling to the Jewish ceremonies is a testament to your lack of knowledge of what the Bible teaches.

I'm sorry that you have forsaken the means of remission of sins, and the way to kill the old man, bury him, and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
To kill the flesh and walk in the Spirit instead.

Paul preaches that there is ONE baptism for the body of Christ and THAT baptism is not water. It is baptism BY the Spirit into the body (of Christ).
1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That verse refers indeed to the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but not the one Paul wrote about in 1 Cor 6:11...
"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
Two different things are mentioned there..."washed-sanctified-justified in the name of the Lord Jesus" AND "and by the Spirit of our God."

The baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't done by God "in the name of Jesus Christ", so must refer to the baptism by water which Peter commanded in Acts 2:38...."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."