ECT What is the Will of God . . .

[glorydaz]

Pisteuo or the application of Faith is simple to understand if one has done it and is doing it . If someone doesn't recognize how NT Faith is applied ( pisteuo ) how could they have started the journey ?

So if your in my shoes I not only have to show them the truth , but have to dismantle their current understandings . All while being misrepresented , called names , mocked , made fun of .

So , would I be correct when I say your beginning to see a surrendered life , the act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , as the act of Faith the Greek word pisteuo communicates ?

You mean I'm beginning to see what you mean by the term "surrendered life"?

I'm hoping you mean we yield ourselves unto God.

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

I'm hoping you mean we reckon ourselves dead to sin, but alive unto God.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.​

I'm hoping you mean being crucified with Christ.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​

If you are, then Paul already showed us this great truth.

 

[Faither]

You mean I'm beginning to see what you mean by the term "surrendered life"?

I'm hoping you mean we yield ourselves unto God.

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

I'm hoping you mean we reckon ourselves dead to sin, but alive unto God.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.​

I'm hoping you mean being crucified with Christ.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​

If you are, then Paul already showed us this great truth.

Ok , got it .

 

[Faither]

No, you don't. If you paid attention you might have noticed that I do not disagree that our faith in Christ should be an ongoing and growing process. I also confirmed the point on surrender to Christ. What I have been pointing out is that you are mistaken as to the range of meaning of the Greek word faith, as the example I keep citing from James illustrates that you keep ignoring... The English is not in error, it well reflects the Greek usage in this case.

In the ongoing Salvation process , when do we receive the Holy Spirit? Or , what do we do to receive the Spirit of Christ ?

 

[Rosenritter]

In the ongoing Salvation process , when do we receive the Holy Spirit? Or , what do we do to receive the Spirit of Christ ?

Acts 19:1-6 KJV
(1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
(2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
(3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
(4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Romans 8:9 KJV
(9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Galatians 3:2 KJV
(2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 7:37-39 KJV
(37) In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
(38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Revelation 21:6 KJV
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

 

[Cross Reference]

If we are to be disciples of Jesus, we must be made disciples supernaturally; as long as we have the dead-set purpose of being disciples we may be sure we are not. “I have chosen you.” By the new DNA from above is the way the grace of God begins.

 

[Cross Reference]

march 21
 "My Utmost for His Highest"

Interest or IdentIFIcatIon?

I have been crucified with Christ. Galatians 2:20 (rv)

The imperative need spiritually is to sign the death-warrant of the disposition of sin, to turn all emotional impressions and intellectual beliefs into a moral verdict against the disposition of sin, viz., my claim to my right to myself. Paul says—“I have been crucified with Christ”; he does not say, “I have determined to imitate Jesus Christ,” or, “I will endeavour to follow Him,” but, “I have been identified with Him in His death.” When I come to such a moral decision and act upon it, then all that Christ wrought for me on the Cross is wrought in me. The free committal of myself to God gives the Holy Spirit the chance to impart to me the holiness of Jesus Christ.

“. . . nevertheless I live. . . .” The individuality remains, but the mainspring, the ruling disposition, is radically altered. The same human body remains, but the old satanic right to myself is destroyed.

“And the life which I now live in the flesh, . . .” not the life which I long to live and pray to live, but the life I now live in my mortal flesh, the life which men can see, “I live by the faith OF the Son of God.” This faith is not Paul’s faith in Jesus Christ, but the faith that the Son of God has imparted to him—“the faith OF the Son of God.” It is no longer faith in faith, but faith which has overleapt all conscious bounds, the identical faith of the Son of God.

Oswald Chambers

 

[Faither]

Acts 19:1-6 KJV
(1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
(2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
(3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
(4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Romans 8:9 KJV
(9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Galatians 3:2 KJV
(2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 7:37-39 KJV
(37) In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
(38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Revelation 21:6 KJV
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Try and answer the two questions in your own words , your own understanding , your own experience .

 

[Rosenritter]

Try and answer the two questions in your own words , your own understanding , your own experience .

When possible I prefer to let scripture speak. Whereas all scripture is inspired my own understanding is not necessarily guaranteed and ones own perceptions can be difficult to specifically discern. Would you be able to first confirm if you see those passages as applicable to the question?

 

[Faither]

When possible I prefer to let scripture speak. Whereas all scripture is inspired my own understanding is not necessarily guaranteed and ones own perceptions can be difficult to specifically discern. Would you be able to first confirm if you see those passages as applicable to the question?

If you can't tell me when you think the Spirit of Christ is given to us , those Scriptures probably aren't yours yet to claim or talk about . This is why I'm asking this specific question .

 

[Rosenritter]

If you can't tell me when you think the Spirit of Christ is given to us , those Scriptures probably aren't yours yet to claim or talk about . This is why I'm asking this specific question .

If you would have the courtesy to reply to the question of whether you thought those passages were applicable, it would give me indication as to what degree of explanation is required for your benefit.

 

[Faither]

If you would have the courtesy to reply to the question of whether you thought those passages were applicable, it would give me indication as to what degree of explanation is required for your benefit.

I asked the question that requires an answer .
All I ask is what I ask of myself . Your understanding based upon your experience . A personal answer .

 

[Rosenritter]

In the ongoing Salvation process , when do we receive the Holy Spirit? Or , what do we do to receive the Spirit of Christ ?

As for your first question, while there may have been signs and wonders in the time of the apostles, including speaking in all manner of known tongues, this is seldom the case today. I have not experienced cloven tongues of fire descending nor seen this occur in another. In my experience, the change in us from the Holy Spirit is not always immediately discernible, and we are still subject to temptation and sin and we are able to stray and deny the Spirit to properly work within us, and I believe (as we are told) that it is even possible to taste of the Holy Spirit and fall away. As such for practical purposes there is no binary "Holy Spirit detector" that yields a chronological time-stamp that is detectable to us, most especially so considering that the Holy Spirit may even be working with us before manifesting within us. As such, where personal observation to our five senses may be lacking, I would rely on scripture to give a more accurate view of the question.

As for your second question, when we believe in Christ and place ourselves in Him we may receive his Spirit. If we knock, he shall answer. If we forsake all that we have, sell it and give it to the poor, take up our cross and follow Him, he will take care of us from there, we then belong to Him (and as it is written, if we have not the Spirit, we are none of us.) I don't think that we need miracles to proceed in faith, and after all, if we required that which is seen for our actions that is hardly proceeding with evidence of things unseen.

Essentially, the problem with your questions is that they are relying on a description of personal experience when the personal experience is not such that can be properly quantified, proven, or even properly described. Faith is the evidence of things unseen.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Heb 6:4-6 KJV
(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That sounds like me that there can be belief in the heart and that actual and from that full belief they can also be fallen away. The "once saved always saved" doctrine is dangerous, disregarding the warnings given to us, and nigh-close to Calvinism.

Those verses are speaking about some Jewish believers who had been saved but they were so attached to the religion of their fathers they continued to offer sacrifices--"seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh."

Since they continue to do these things it is impossible that they will change their minds (repent) about doing them. In regard to "Once Saved Always Saved" the Christian is told that they already possess eternal life in the Son (1 Jn.5:11). And here is what the Lord Jesus said about those to whom he gives eternal life:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).​

We also know that eternal life is a gift from the Lord (Ro.6:23) and we also know that once He gives the gift of eternal life He will not take it back:

"for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable" (Ro.11:29).​

We also know that the word "eternal" means without end so when John wrote about the "eternal" life which a Christian has in the Son then we can know that life will never end. If that life could end then it was not eternal to begin with but John does describe it as being eternal.

 

[Faither]

As for your first question, while there may have been signs and wonders in the time of the apostles, including speaking in all manner of known tongues, this is seldom the case today. I have not experienced cloven tongues of fire descending nor seen this occur in another. In my experience, the change in us from the Holy Spirit is not always immediately discernible, and we are still subject to temptation and sin and we are able to stray and deny the Spirit to properly work within us, and I believe (as we are told) that it is even possible to taste of the Holy Spirit and fall away. As such for practical purposes there is no binary "Holy Spirit detector" that yields a chronological time-stamp that is detectable to us, most especially so considering that the Holy Spirit may even be working with us before manifesting within us. As such, where personal observation to our five senses may be lacking, I would rely on scripture to give a more accurate view of the question.

As for your second question, when we believe in Christ and place ourselves in Him we may receive his Spirit. If we knock, he shall answer. If we forsake all that we have, sell it and give it to the poor, take up our cross and follow Him, he will take care of us from there, we then belong to Him (and as it is written, if we have not the Spirit, we are none of us.) I don't think that we need miracles to proceed in faith, and after all, if we required that which is seen for our actions that is hardly proceeding with evidence of things unseen.

Essentially, the problem with your questions is that they are relying on a description of personal experience when the personal experience is not such that can be properly quantified, proven, or even properly described. Faith is the evidence of things unseen.

So the short answer is you don't know , and that I can't possibly know either .

This topic would have been part of the facts I tried to discuss with you before . We didn't get very far .

Do you want to revisit the factual points again ?

 

[Rosenritter]

Those verses are speaking about some Jewish believers who had been saved but they were so attached to the religion of their fathers they continued to offer sacrifices--"seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh."

Since they continue to do these things it is impossible that they will change their minds (repent) about doing them. In regard to "Once Saved Always Saved" the Christian is told that they already possess eternal life in the Son (1 Jn.5:11). And here is what the Lord Jesus said about those to whom he gives eternal life:.

That is indeed utter nonsense and the height of delusion to think that the ability to taste of and then forsake the Holy Ghost is limited to the Jew.

 

[Rosenritter]

So the short answer is you don't know , and that I can't possibly know either .

This topic would have been part of the facts I tried to discuss with you before . We didn't get very far .

Do you want to revisit the factual points again ?

No, I didn't say that I don't know. I said that you entered into the area of things unseen. Do you remember what Jesus said concerning the kingdom of God, as it resembles the mustard seed and the leaven in the lump? The fruits can be seen after the fact, but you were asking for an exact chronological moment with carnal observation of which the spiritual defies easy description. Or in other words, you were asking the wrong questions. Had you been willing to follow the lead of the scriptures I had introduced, that may have answered the overreaching question behind the questions far better.

 

[glorydaz]

When possible I prefer to let scripture speak. Whereas all scripture is inspired my own understanding is not necessarily guaranteed and ones own perceptions can be difficult to specifically discern. Would you be able to first confirm if you see those passages as applicable to the question?

You had the best answer, but Faither hasn't yet addressed the hearing of faith.

Galatians 3:2 KJV
(2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?​

 

[Rosenritter]

You had the best answer, but Faither hasn't yet addressed the hearing of faith.

Galatians 3:2 KJV
(2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?​

I don't know why he didn't bite at that.

 

[Faither]

No, I didn't say that I don't know. I said that you entered into the area of things unseen. Do you remember what Jesus said concerning the kingdom of God, as it resembles the mustard seed and the leaven in the lump? The fruits can be seen after the fact, but you were asking for an exact chronological moment with carnal observation of which the spiritual defies easy description. Or in other words, you were asking the wrong questions. Had you been willing to follow the lead of the scriptures I had introduced, that may have answered the overreaching question behind the questions far better.

You are basing your understanding of Faith on the fact it's always something unseen . The faith or faithing process could go from the unseen , to the seen . Then , with the life of that specific faithing act reaching completion , it nolonger is Faith anymore but fact . At this point a new specific act of faithing must take it's place .

So what specific acts of faithing you are currently fulfilling are probably different from mine .

 

[Cross Reference]

Head knowledge not heart knowledge.

Were they to really believe, they would also trust and be persuaded by it.

The Devil knows his time is short. What does that tell us about what he believes and how deep in himself he believes it?