What is the Gospel?

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blackbirdking

New member
Right Divider said:
Don't try to put words in my mouth. I did NOT say that God does not reveal Himself today. I said that God is NOT speaking DIRECTLY to people today. God speaks TODAY through His WORD, the BIBLE.
"Inadvertently"?
So you now agree that "staring into the heavens" will not teach you the gospel that saves?
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You profess to believe that God only reveals Himself to man today by the Bible. So tell me, is the true revelation of God the one you received, the one AMR received, Calvin, Luther, Sherman, Knight, EE, or one we've never seen before?

You don't even believe the heavens declare the glory of God. Where did that revelation come from; not the Bible for sure.

Right Divider said:
This statement makes no sense.
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You're saying that it makes no sense to seek God and be led to an understanding of the Bible.
The Bible is the Word of God. How do you "seek God" without understanding His Word?
The Bible is God's explanation of everything from beginning to end. If you don't understand God's Word, you don't understand God.
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Listen to what you're saying.
You believe a man must understand the Bible before he seeks God.
A man will never understand the Bible before he seeks God; he won't even want to understand the Bible until he seeks God. But apparently your revelation says men should strive to understand scripture rather than seek God because the seeking will come after they understand.

How many men do you know that weren't seeking God and started studying scripture?
 
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blackbirdking

New member
George Affleck said:
Brother,...
...Sonnet needs to take notice that the differences between true believers are very small...

We are all beggars and we want our fellow beggars to know that we have found bread. Sometimes they listen.
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True believers? Is there such a thing as false believers and what are they like?

The differences between some professing believers is by no means small. Some portray a very, very bad God.
 
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blackbirdking

New member
Epoisses said:
Choice, the battle cry of the Arminian gospel. All your choices are worthless and wrong and motivated by sin. The bible commands sinners to believe in Christ not choose him. Choice is the old covenant understanding where Joshua boldly proclaims that he and his house will choose to serve the Lord. There are millions of Christians that have chosen Jesus and go to church every week but are in a lost state...
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It has nothing to do with Arminius's teaching.
You are partially correct; the command is to believe...from the heart. Everything a man believes is believed by making a choice; if a man believes that George Washington lived and died, it's because he chooses to believe.

Sorry, you can't believe anything unless you choose to do so.

...and, it's not about choice; it's about the character of God.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
glorydaz said:
Then your stance makes no sense if what you say in yellow (above) is true.

I realize Calvinists like to say we make it about us when it's all about God, but I don't agree. It's the reconciliation process. God reaches down, but man must reach up.

The Gospel persuades us of the Truth, and we are then forced, by that truth, to choose whether to TRUST in God or ourselves....to trust in God or turn back to the darkness. There is that one moment of decision all men must make.
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You have always referred that to adding to the work of Christ, if others said it.

LA
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
glorydaz said:
Why do you keep saying that?

This is a perfect example of why you need to investigate these claims you hear.

Jacob and Esau are the NATIONS that were to come out of Rebekah's womb.

Genesis 25:23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.​

When God says Jacob I have loved, He is talking about ISRAEL. And when He say Esau have I hated, He is talking about Edom. Edom was made up of Esau's descendants, and it was much later that Edom persecuted Israel.

Genesis 36:1 Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.​

God was not talking about Esau the man. He was not damned at all. In fact, he repented in tears and God gave him a land of his own.

Genesis 33:4 And Esau ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck, and kissed him: and they wept.

Genesis 33:9 And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.

Genesis 33:15 And Esau said, Let me now leave with thee some of the folk that are with me. And he said, What needeth it? let me find grace in the sight of my lord.

Genesis 33:16 So Esau returned that day on his way unto Seir.​
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Esau never repented, and he inherited nothing of Gods promises--

Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

LA
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
glorydaz said:
Why do you keep saying that?

This is a perfect example of why you need to investigate these claims you hear.

Jacob and Esau are the NATIONS that were to come out of Rebekah's womb.

Genesis 25:23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.​

When God says Jacob I have loved, He is talking about ISRAEL. And when He say Esau have I hated, He is talking about Edom. Edom was made up of Esau's descendants, and it was much later that Edom persecuted Israel.

Genesis 36:1 Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.​

God was not talking about Esau the man. He was not damned at all. In fact, he repented in tears and God gave him a land of his own.

Genesis 33:4 And Esau ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck, and kissed him: and they wept.

Genesis 33:9 And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.

Genesis 33:15 And Esau said, Let me now leave with thee some of the folk that are with me. And he said, What needeth it? let me find grace in the sight of my lord.

Genesis 33:16 So Esau returned that day on his way unto Seir.​
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Your argument isn't with me glorydaz. With respect, it is you who is tolerating such a view isn't it? The Gospel that I suggested was another Gospel (worthy of Paul's curse) has God literally hating Esau.

This goes to the heart of the thread.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
blackbirdking said:
A man has no reason or motivation to read, hear, or know scripture if he is not seeking first.
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True. But if he is seeking, he won't find answers outside the word of God.

What causes men to seek God? He looks around, and wonders how all these things got here.


So one day, he hears about God....from someone preaching out of the word of God. Or he picks up a Bible, out of curiosity, and finds answers about God. He reads more....he finds more. One day, he is persuaded.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
glorydaz said:
True. But if he is seeking, he won't find answers outside the word of God.

What causes men to seek God? He looks around, and wonders how all these things got here.


So one day, he hears about God....from someone preaching out of the word of God. Or he picks up a Bible, out of curiosity, and finds answers about God. He reads more....he finds more. One day, he is persuaded.
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Gideon left it no doubt.
To help in good Rocky's revival.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
blackbirdking said:
You profess to believe that God only reveals Himself to man today by the Bible. So tell me, is the true revelation of God the one you received, the one AMR received, Calvin, Luther, Sherman, Knight, EE, or one we've never seen before?

You don't even believe the heavens declare the glory of God. Where did that revelation come from; not the Bible for sure.
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You wouldn't know the heavens declare the glory of God except it is written:

Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

As to the topic of this thread, I ask you, "What is the gospel" of your salvation?
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
intojoy said:
We are members of a fallen race. We are sinners by default and by choice when we live long enough to choose right from wrong. In Calvinist soteriology the elect was never lost. That’s why you won’t get a clear answer to your question about our culpability. We don’t need to be culpable because we are born dead to God and alive to sin.

Paul does not answer the question concerning God’s right to save some while passing over others. I speculate about why sometimes. But I’m careful not to judge God from a human perspective on what is good or what is bad. One of my thoughts took me to the fall of the evil one. Satan wanted to be God. Then God created a being that was after God’s own image something Satan did not possess. I sometimes wonder how much of our world is being used to teach the angelic world about God’s nature. If you or blackbirddingaling or I wanted to question the fairness of election, we don’t need to go beyond this fact, that God did not need to nor was God obligated to save anyone either by election or non election. The fact that He saves anyone is the manifestation of His love.


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It remains possible that your interpretation of Romans 9 is way off. I'm repeating myself - but Paul's summation doesn't fit with your inference. Why start talking about the error of Israelites compared with the faith of the Gentiles if you have just been asserting God's total right of mercy a la John Calvin?

30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
heir said:
You wouldn't know the heavens declare the glory of God except it is written:

Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

As to the topic of this thread, I ask you, "What is the gospel" of your salvation?
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Why isn't Paul's experience possible now?

11I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Sonnet said:
Why isn't Paul's experience possible now?

11I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
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1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Sonnet said:
?
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Because only one could be the first for a pattern shewing forth the Lord's all longsuffering. Why do you need an "experience" when faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17 KJV)? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved not feel on the Lord Jesus Christ...
 
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