What is the Gospel?

[Sonnet]

Indeed. So?

What is your duty as commanded by God in His revealed will (Scripture) versus attempting to seek out His unrevealed will (Deut. 29:29)?

What is your duty as commanded by Scripture, Gods's revealed will?

This: Believe upon the Lord and be saved.

Do your duty and see where that takes you.

You may just find that the things you claimed to understand beforehand were not as you assumed, thus proving the state of the unbeliever described in Romans 1. This whole discussion is fruitless when taken up between an avowed non-believer and a believer. The former has no ears to hear. Period. I or no one else herein can argue you into the Kingdom.

Obey God. That is your duty. Do it or be left without excuse.

Afterwards, in your walk of faith some things will become more clear depending upon how you manage your walk of faith in the feeding of your faith and starving of your doubts by not neglecting daily Scripture study, rejoicing in hope, being patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer (Romans 12:12), fellowship with other believers, keeping good stewardship of the secular and spiritual gifts God has given you—including how and where your time is being spent—and with regular assembly with others to worship God, receive instruction, access the ordinary means of grace, and being subject to discipline.

So, what prevents you at this moment in calling upon the name of the Lord? Nothing. You know this. You simply continue to rationalize and navel gaze.

AMR

I don't want to keep requesting a response to #491 - please just say if you have decided not to.

 

[Sonnet]

Born dead in sin and already condemned is the biblical description. But again, my friends on the left of me are unwilling to fathom that children die unsaved. No where in scripture are we told that there is an age of accountability. That is a myth. And thus they cannot hold the literal definition of humanity; we have the imputation of Adam’s sin and all die as a result.

Now I do not tell people about the total depravity outside from discussing it amongst believers because no one is ever going to be saved by hearing of total depravity.

The message of the Bible is not advice it is news. News that God has intervened on man’s behalf. He entered our world, He took upon Himself our humanity, He died for our sin, He was resurrected for our life and He is coming back for our glorification. The difference between our faith and every other belief system is the difference between news and advice. We don’t have to pray five times a day facing Mecca or refuse to eat this or that food, it is not what we can do for God but what God has already done for us. We are to become living sacrifices unto Him as Paul says. We need to live our lives in a way that glorifies God by forgiveness for one another. Martin Luther King was a man that wanted to pursue equality in America for African Americans. And he was willing to be that sacrifice in the sense of forgiving racial prejudices by enduring tears and shame in silence and quietly. At the moment MLK would cry out and condemn whites he would no longer be that sacrifice because he would be demanding payment for the tears for the shame. Malcom X criticized MLK and wanted to exact payment from America. That is the difference between a Christian and any other religious belief. It is by being connected to the one who is love that we can become the kind of human beings God created us to become. The gift of God is eternal life. There may be objections to accepting the gospel based on the doctrines within the Bible but there still remains no other faith no other belief system that can be compared to it. It wasn’t how guilty the Israelite felt not how long he had to stare at the serpent on moses’ staff in the heat of the desert sun, it was simply the look of faith that saved and the object that God supplied. Christ the Lord was given and lifted up for our sickness of sin, He is the object of faith and all anyone need do is merely look upon Him for salvation. If you at one time in your life did that Sonnet then you are still born again even if you cease to believe.

When I believed the gospel I was 5 years old. God reached down from heaven and took ahold of my hand and He has never let go. I’ve wasted years, decades of my life ignoring Christ but once as a child when I cried out to Him He grabbed a hold of me and here we are bro.

Blessings


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Thanks.

It is by being connected to the one who is love that we can become the kind of human beings God created us to become.

Love?
How did God love Esau whom, it is claimed, He literally hated and damned?

 

[intojoy]

Thanks.



Love?
How did God love Esau whom, it is claimed, He literally hated and damned?

The word meant chose


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[Nihilo]

Not agreeing on the most fundamental issue - whether Jesus died for all or not - is a catastrophe if Jesus is the truth.

The schism justifies the sceptic. bbk put it well.

We differ on what is "the most fundamental issue." The most fundamental issue, the very definition of Christian faith, according to Paul, is believing the historical fact that He is risen. Everything else is beneath this historical fact, this "crowning" truth, and everything else connects with, as to the hub of a wheel, this "central" truth, of the one Christian faith (Eph4:5KJV). The Lord Jesus Christ is risen. There is no disagreement among all Christians everywhere on this one point. And anyone who denies that He is risen, can safely be judged to be outside the Body of Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

That's an unambiguous indictment of those that say Christ did not die for all without exception.

No, because as I said, the Gospel is very simple. The complexities you are addressing are how men have decided to interpret it. If men could keep their "explanations" out of it, you would find agreement.

EXCEPT, of course, those who decide to add to Paul's Gospel with "repentance from sin" and "believe and obey and be water baptized". That is another Gospel....the "other gospel" that was preached to the Jews before the cross.

 

[glorydaz]

Love?
How did God love Esau whom, it is claimed, He literally hated and damned?

Why do you keep saying that?

This is a perfect example of why you need to investigate these claims you hear.

Jacob and Esau are the NATIONS that were to come out of Rebekah's womb.

Genesis 25:23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.​

When God says Jacob I have loved, He is talking about ISRAEL. And when He say Esau have I hated, He is talking about Edom. Edom was made up of Esau's descendants, and it was much later that Edom persecuted Israel.

Genesis 36:1 Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.​

God was not talking about Esau the man. He was not damned at all. In fact, he repented in tears and God gave him a land of his own.

Genesis 33:4 And Esau ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck, and kissed him: and they wept.

Genesis 33:9 And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.

Genesis 33:15 And Esau said, Let me now leave with thee some of the folk that are with me. And he said, What needeth it? let me find grace in the sight of my lord.

Genesis 33:16 So Esau returned that day on his way unto Seir.​

 

[Epoisses]

Except there is a choice. Whether or not to plug your ears to the truth you are hearing when the Gospel is preached...because you love your sin, and think you might have to give it up. You fall for the lie that there is a catch to this GIFT you are hearing about. Too good to be true...you fall for the lie satan is whispering in your ear, and you are convinced you can never be good enough for God.

You have a choice to turn toward God or turn back to the world. To turn away from the light of the glorious Gospel because you love darkness more than the light. 1 Thessalonians 1:9

But, God is longsuffering. Not only longsuffering, but actively working to draw men to Himself. How many people have to reach the bottom before they look up? I submit we each reached a point where we realize we are missing something very important, and it's the POWER of the Gospel that shows us what we are missing. We were created to know our great God.

Those who believe in choice make the gospel about them and what they do, don't do, i.e. choice. Those who have come to genuine repentance for sin understand that all their choices are tainted by sin and motivated by selfishness. The best analogy I have for understanding the role of choice or free-will is that God is in control of everything but he controls no man. We still have choices to make every day but we need to trust and believe that Christ is the one making the choices in and thru us.

 

[Epoisses]

Not agreeing on the most fundamental issue - whether Jesus died for all or not - is a catastrophe if Jesus is the truth.

The schism justifies the sceptic. bbk put it well.

Jesus died for all men. Christians can and do fall away from grace. But why do they fall away? Because they made bad choices or because they had a weak faith?

 

[blackbirdking]

Lies


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[intojoy]

Since such sins would follow directly from the inheritance (as you put it: "Post-fall-- able to sin -- not able to not sin"), then I'm not sure why you are suggesting that, therefore, this is our culpable part.

We are members of a fallen race. We are sinners by default and by choice when we live long enough to choose right from wrong. In Calvinist soteriology the elect was never lost. That’s why you won’t get a clear answer to your question about our culpability. We don’t need to be culpable because we are born dead to God and alive to sin.

Paul does not answer the question concerning God’s right to save some while passing over others. I speculate about why sometimes. But I’m careful not to judge God from a human perspective on what is good or what is bad. One of my thoughts took me to the fall of the evil one. Satan wanted to be God. Then God created a being that was after God’s own image something Satan did not possess. I sometimes wonder how much of our world is being used to teach the angelic world about God’s nature. If you or blackbirddingaling or I wanted to question the fairness of election, we don’t need to go beyond this fact, that God did not need to nor was God obligated to save anyone either by election or non election. The fact that He saves anyone is the manifestation of His love.


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[Right Divider]

We are members of a fallen race. We are sinners by default and by choice when we live long enough to choose right from wrong. In Calvinist soteriology the elect was never lost. That’s why you won’t get a clear answer to your question about our culpability. We don’t need to be culpable because we are born dead to God and alive to sin.

Paul does not answer the question concerning God’s right to save some while passing over others. I speculate about why sometimes. But I’m careful not to judge God from a human perspective on what is good or what is bad. One of my thoughts took me to the fall of the evil one. Satan wanted to be God. Then God created a being that was after God’s own image something Satan did not possess. I sometimes wonder how much of our world is being used to teach the angelic world about God’s nature. If you or blackbirddingaling or I wanted to question the fairness of election, we don’t need to go beyond this fact, that God did not need to nor was God obligated to save anyone either by election or non election. The fact that He saves anyone is the manifestation of His love.

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Just to keep it real.

Isa 14:14 (AKJV/PCE)​

(14:14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
​

LIKE the most High.

 

[glorydaz]

Those who believe in choice make the gospel about them and what they do, don't do, i.e. choice. Those who have come to genuine repentance for sin understand that all their choices are tainted by sin and motivated by selfishness. The best analogy I have for understanding the role of choice or free-will is that God is in control of everything but he controls no man. We still have choices to make every day but we need to trust and believe that Christ is the one making the choices in and thru us.

Then your stance makes no sense if what you say in yellow (above) is true.

I realize Calvinists like to say we make it about us when it's all about God, but I don't agree. It's the reconciliation process. God reaches down, but man must reach up.

The Gospel persuades us of the Truth, and we are then forced, by that truth, to choose whether to TRUST in God or ourselves....to trust in God or turn back to the darkness. There is that one moment of decision all men must make.

 

[Epoisses]

Then your stance makes no sense if what you say in yellow (above) is true.

I realize Calvinists like to say we make it about us when it's all about God, but I don't agree. It's the reconciliation process. God reaches down, but man must reach up.

The Gospel persuades us of the Truth, and we are then forced, by that truth, to choose whether to TRUST in God or ourselves....to trust in God or turn back to the darkness. There is that one moment of decision all men must make.

It's not about choice. Belief is not gathering all the facts and coming to an intellectual decision. Those who are truly saved always give the credit to God and those who preach the choice gospel take the credit to themselves and their decisions.

 

[glorydaz]

It's not about choice. Belief is not gathering all the facts and coming to an intellectual decision. Those who are truly saved always give the credit to God and those who preach the choice gospel take the credit to themselves and their decisions.

Sounds nice, but still too much Calvin for my taste. I don't see any "choice" people taking credit for their salvation. You're confusing us with those who preach "obedience to the commandments". They totally take the credit for themselves.

Think of the serpent on a pole. In order to live, the people had to look at the serpent on the pole. They all "heard" what Moses said (intellectually), but some chose to get rid of the poison using other means, and they died. It isn't hearing with our intellect, it's hearing and then trusting. No one can trust for man....not the preacher and not God.

Moses, as the preacher, doesn't get the credit for their looking. The fact that they did look caused them to live, but they had to look of their own volition. No, the preacher merely beseeches man in God's stead to "Be ye reconciled to God". Why would that plea need to be made if man wasn't the one who had to do it? He must come to that point of decision himself.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​

Does he take credit for it? No, because the moment he is begotten by the gospel, he understands that eternal life is a GIFT from God. The reality of the Cross shuts every mouth. It's a part of the Law of Faith....boasting is excluded. Romans 3:26-27

But, it's still a choice each of us must make. We must exercise our free will and turn to God....to look upon the serpent on a pole.

 

[Ktoyou]

Jesus died for all men. Christians can and do fall away from grace. But why do they fall away? Because they made bad choices or because they had a weak faith?

They never really had true Grace.

 

[blackbirdking]

... Those people who took a stand against their tribal religions had a Christian missionary in some other part of the world begin to have a burden to go and evangelize their part of the world, he or she showed up at that natives Home shared the gospel ending in salvation for that person....
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Why would anyone take a stand against their tribal religion if they're not seeking God?

Is this idea your speculation or your revelation of scripture?

Did the Bible tell them to have a burden or was it revealed to them by...?

 

[blackbirdking]

Denial? You’re asking if God is good. Same question asked 6000 years ago by Satan. Why would you question the goodness of God? Surely you sin.


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What part of "do you believe" don't you understand? It has nothing to do about the goodness of God; it has everything to do with what you believe! You are totally afraid to admit what you believe.

 

[blackbirdking]

They'll find Him in Scripture. It's always the same.

The promise.

Jer. 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.​

The means.

Jer. 29:19 Because they have not hearkened to my words, saith the Lord, which I sent unto them by my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them; but ye would not hear, saith the Lord.​

A man has no reason or motivation to read, hear, or know scripture if he is not seeking first.

 

[blackbirdking]

Blackbirddropping some intellectual dishonesty

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It is not dishonest to ask you about your beliefs. It is dishonest to use scripture to avoid the secrets of the heart.

 

[blackbirdking]

He did answer, but you didn't get it.

No.

That's got nothing to do with why he said the truth is not in you.

Yes

Right, fall back on the old, 'I feel sorry for you....you need to seek God.' Lame. :nono:

IJ will never be able trust a God who condemns a man for His own glory; sorry.

Aren't you the good and caring one. :chuckle:

If you only knew!

Surely you must know that anyone who worships God knows He is good. It's your seeming claim that He is only Good that one might argue with. Is God only good? No, He is also Righteous, and He is also a God of Wrath.

Wrong; God is only good, in His Righteous and in His Wrath

That's why your question was met with scripture. It was exactly the same kind of deceptive question satan asked in the garden.

No; He couldn't answer it because he does not think God is good. He thinks the non-elect were created for God's pleasure; and that definitely is bad.

Nice try but you better try again, thanks.