What is the express image of God?

[keypurr]

Not in the slightest keypurr.

For the Greek word χαρακτήρ (character) in Heb 1:3, Vine's states;
the special function of creating and upholding the universe is ascribed to Christ under His titles of Word, Image, and Son, respectively. The kind of Creatorship so predicated of Him is not that of a mere instrument or artificer in the formation of the world, but that of One 'by whom, in whom, and for whom' all things are made, and through whom they subsist. This implies the assertion of His true and absolute Godhood" (Laidlaw, in Hastings' Bib. Dic.).

The fact is if you move OFF the one word you are fixated on, you will see that Jesus is described as; "sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."
This describes God, not just a man.
Again as the scriptures say that ONLY God is our savior, Is 43:11-12 (NIV), then Jesus has to be God, because He is clearly our savior, or at least He is mine. Is He yours?

Our differences seem to be who is being discussed in Heb 1:3.

Before there was Jesus there was a son of God, his exact copy who the Father used to create everything. This is Christ, a spirit being. Jesus is not a spirit being, he is a human being. Now scripture tells us that this son took the form of man. Did Jesus take the form of man? Nope, he was born a man. The fact that he was born tells you that he is also a creation and not God. But you do not wish to hear that, do you? Jesus grew in wisdom so again we see that Jesus was a man and not God. Jesus was born to be the Savior and also to be the Christ. But that did not happen at birth did it?

To find answers one needs to ask questions. We all need to do that.

 

[keypurr]

By the way Stan, our savior had to be a man, not God.

It requied a sinless, stainless man to be the Lamb of God.

 

[StanJ]

Our differences seem to be who is being discussed in Heb 1:3.

Before there was Jesus there was a son of God, his exact copy who the Father used to create everything. This is Christ, a spirit being. Jesus is not a spirit being, he is a human being. Now scripture tells us that this son took the form of man. Did Jesus take the form of man? Nope, he was born a man. The fact that he was born tells you that he is also a creation and not God. But you do not wish to hear that, do you? Jesus grew in wisdom so again we see that Jesus was a man and not God. Jesus was born to be the Savior and also to be the Christ. But that did not happen at birth did it?

To find answers one needs to ask questions. We all need to do that.

Clearly it is JESUS who is the context and subject of this verse keypurr. If you don't believe me ask anyone who knows grammar.

Before their was Jesus, there was The WORD; John 1:1-5, 14 (NIV) who
"became" (incarnate) flesh (Jesus).

Scripture tells us He BECAME a man when He was conceived in Mary, and that the FULLNESS of the deity LIVES in bodily form (Jesus). Not dwells, LIVES in bodily form. The same form that was manifested throughout the OT and in Melchizedek, who is shown to be Jesus as Luke states in Hebrews.
Being born is pro-creation, but in order to be only human, he would need only human DNA, which was NOT the case. He has God DNA as well as human DNA, but His nature was a hypostatic one, a human infused with The WORD, who is the second person of our triune GOD. Matt 1:20 (NIV)

As God says HE is our savior and He can't lie, the Jesus has to be God...it's very simple.
Faith, also requires we STOP asking questions when we have CLEAR answers. To continue to do so is in actuality disbelieving God, which ends up leaving that person open to being deceived by their own ideas.
You had clear answers when you were saved, but then you kept asking what you already knew was wrong, so God gave you over to those and know you are bound by them. THAT is what scripture tells us. Eph 4:14 (NIV)

 

[StanJ]

By the way Stan, our savior had to be a man, not God.
It required a sinless, stainless man to be the Lamb of God.

He has to be BOTH, which is what scripture tells us. Heb 10:11-14 (NIV)

What you also seem to forget is that God said "ALL men have sinned", but Jesus didn't, so he was not a mere man.

 

[StanJ]

Again Stan, I try not to get bent out of shape. But I am human, like Jesus was.

No problem, we can be angry and yet not sin. Eph 4:26

 

[StanJ]

I am not the one who says only my opinion is right. For three years I have asked for verses to prove me wrong. I think it is of great importance to see that the original son of God is a spirit. You, on the other hand, don't seem to care for it interferes with your Church training.

I believe God gave us minds to use, not just follow. We both see different things in Heb 1:3 and John 1. Not knowing Greek, I rely on the translations, comparing them brings understanding.

No you are not, but I'm dealing with you just now so my comments are not for others.
I don't know what's gone on since 2013 when I was last here, but I'm back now so I'm giving you what you need to see.
I'm self taught by complying with 2 Tim 2:15 and with great help of the Holy Spirit.

Yes we do, but I show you what it says and you just deny it with NO response/reciprocation. Denial is what Peter did 3 times.

 

[meshak]

He has to be BOTH, which is what scripture tells us. Heb 10:11-14 (NIV)

What you also seem to forget is that God said "ALL men have sinned", but Jesus didn't, so he was not a mere man.

Jesus was not mere man, He was sent by His Father to be our Lord and Savior. He accomplished what He was sent for.

He could sin if He wanted to but He loved His Father so much and had faith in Him more than any of us.

His faithfulness made them different from all of us. That's why He is our Christ. If He sinned He could not be our Christ.

He had to be a man in order to take place of Adam who failed expectation from God.

 

[Bright Raven]

Jesus was not mere man, He was sent by His Father to be our Lord and Savior. He accomplished what He was sent for.

He could sin if He wanted to but He loved His Father so much and had faith in Him more than any of us.

His faithfulness made them different from all of us. That's why He is our Christ. If He sinned He could not be our Christ.

He had to be man in order to take place of Adam who failed his expectation from God.

If he was not a mere man, who was He?

 

[StanJ]

Jesus was not mere man, He was sent by His Father to be our Lord and Savior. He accomplished what He was sent for.

He could sin if He wanted to but He loved His Father so much and had faith in Him more than any of us.

His faithfulness made them different from all of us. That's why He is our Christ. If He sinned He could not be our Christ.

He had to be a man in order to take place of Adam who failed expectation from God.

His FATHER was in the physical sense only, as He Himself was God (The WORD) incarnate.

That is an assumption not based on facts.

He is our Christ because He is. Christ means Messiah. He couldn't sin because God can't.

Nobody says He isn't a man, He's just not merely a man, He is God incarnate.

 

[keypurr]

He has to be BOTH, which is what scripture tells us. Heb 10:11-14 (NIV)

What you also seem to forget is that God said "ALL men have sinned", but Jesus didn't, so he was not a mere man.

All have, except the son of God. But that does not make him God.
Sitting down next to God does not make you God either. He is however Lord, made so by his and our God.

 

[meshak]

He is our Christ because He is. Christ means Messiah. He couldn't sin because God can't.

Do your realize Jesus took place of Adam?

 

[keypurr]

If he was not a mere man, who was He?

He was the son of the most high BR. He was born pure.

 

[keypurr]

No you are not, but I'm dealing with you just now so my comments are not for others.
I don't know what's gone on since 2013 when I was last here, but I'm back now so I'm giving you what you need to see.
I'm self taught by complying with 2 Tim 2:15 and with great help of the Holy Spirit.

Yes we do, but I show you what it says and you just deny it with NO response/reciprocation. Denial is what Peter did 3 times.

I believe I have been guided by the Holy Spirit Stan.
Jesus Christ is a creation, not God. The Christ in Jesus is a form of God, not God. You fail to understand the difference between Jesus and Christ. Jesus was anointed with Christ. You are trying to make another God when you say Jesus is God. That is breaking the Ten commandments Stan. Dangerous ground for sure.

 

[StanJ]

Do your realize Jesus took place of Adam?

Actually Jesus didn't take Adam's place. You need to read 1 Cor 15:36-58 (NIV) in order to understand what the first and last Adam means.

 

[StanJ]

All have, except the son of God. But that does not make him God.
Sitting down next to God does not make you God either. He is however Lord, made so by his and our God.

That is your exception, not the scriptures. NO MAN is good, so Jesus obviously is not just a man and you can't just ignore everything the NT says about Jesus to push a singularity.
Jesus said no man has ever seen God, but Jesus did, so obviously He is more than a man. What exactly do you think the Bible means when it says the right hand of God. Do you think that is literal? Don't you know the NT says God is spirit?

 

[StanJ]

I believe I have been guided by the Holy Spirit Stan.
Jesus Christ is a creation, not God. The Christ in Jesus is a form of God, not God. You fail to understand the difference between Jesus and Christ. Jesus was anointed with Christ. You are trying to make another God when you say Jesus is God. That is breaking the Ten commandments Stan. Dangerous ground for sure.

So let me get this straight...you think God is a dual entity?
Jesus was BORN keypurr....repetition does not make what you say somehow magically become true. Jesus was born OF a virgin, God incarnate. THAT is what the Bible teaches.
I more than understand the Shema keypurr...do you?
It's in Mark 12:29 (NIV)
If you read it, you will notice Jesus Himself says the LORD our God is ONE, quoting from the OT. The Body of Christ is ONE. The disciples were of ONE accord. Adam and Eve were ONE. This is NOT a reference to a numerical setting keypurr, it is a reference to a uniquely unified God as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One in purpose, goal, understanding, and being.

 

[keypurr]

That is your exception, not the scriptures. NO MAN is good, so Jesus obviously is not just a man and you can't just ignore everything the NT says about Jesus to push a singularity.
Jesus said no man has ever seen God, but Jesus did, so obviously He is more than a man. What exactly do you think the Bible means when it says the right hand of God. Do you think that is literal? Don't you know the NT says God is spirit?

Did he not say Why do you call me good?

No man has seen God, that includes Jesus. It was the spirit Christ who came down from God, not Jesus. That spirit is the son of man.

Why do you assume so much?

Yes, God is a spirit, so is his express image Christ. Christ spoke through the body prepared for him. Christ is the son that God sent, not Jesus.

Suggest you look over Hebrews 10:5. See what is there for you to digest.

 

[keypurr]

So let me get this straight...you think God is a dual entity?
Jesus was BORN keypurr....repetition does not make what you say somehow magically become true. Jesus was born OF a virgin, God incarnate. THAT is what the Bible teaches.
I more than understand the Shema keypurr...do you?
It's in Mark 12:29 (NIV)
If you read it, you will notice Jesus Himself says the LORD our God is ONE, quoting from the OT. The Body of Christ is ONE. The disciples were of ONE accord. Adam and Eve were ONE. This is NOT a reference to a numerical setting keypurr, it is a reference to a uniquely unified God as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One in purpose, goal, understanding, and being.

Stan there is only one true God, the Father. Every other being is a creation. Jesus was born human, Christ was a created spirit. Your as bad as the Jews who thought that Jesus was saying he was God because he said he is the son of God.

You just do not see what the good book is telling you. God is not made up of three pieces Stan, the Trinity is false. Jesus Christ tells you that he is not God. Why do you listen to men instead of God? The word "godhead" has deceived most folks. God is one and only one. Did not Paul say that we have one God AND one Lord? What do you think he meant?

 

[daqq]

I believe I have been guided by the Holy Spirit Stan.
Jesus Christ is a creation, not God. The Christ in Jesus is a form of God, not God. You fail to understand the difference between Jesus and Christ. Jesus was anointed with Christ. You are trying to make another God when you say Jesus is God. That is breaking the Ten commandments Stan. Dangerous ground for sure.

Yes, breaking the first of the Ten Commandments, and even more dangerous now because of the Testimony of Yeshua, which says that those to whom the Logos of Elohim has come are called "elohim" and likewise Yeshua says "and the scripture cannot be broken" in that same John 10:34-35 passage where he quotes the Psalm. Therefore anyone who claims the name of Messiah and says he or she has the Word, (Logos) is called an "elohim" and any such one who puts himself/herself before the Most High has also broken the first commandment, (first of the Ten Words, i.e. Exodus 20:3). But aside from all this I wanted to ask you Keypurr if you have already addressed Roman 1:25 in this thread? The same word for "creature-creation" is employed there by the same writer Paul:

Romans 1:22-25 KJV
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Colossians 1:15 KJV
15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Same Greek word and usage: ktisis-creature-creation.

 

[keypurr]

Yes, breaking the first of the Ten Commandments, and even more dangerous now because of the Testimony of Yeshua, which says that those to whom the Logos of Elohim has come are called "elohim" and likewise Yeshua says "and the scripture cannot be broken" in that same John 10:34-35 passage where he quotes the Psalm. Therefore anyone who claims the name of Messiah and says he or she has the Word, (Logos) is called an "elohim" and any such one who puts himself/herself before the Most High has also broken the first commandment, (first of the Ten Words, i.e. Exodus 20:3). But aside from all this I wanted to ask you Keypurr if you have already addressed Roman 1:25 in this thread? The same word for "creature-creation" is employed there by the same writer Paul:

Romans 1:22-25 KJV
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Colossians 1:15 KJV
15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Same Greek word and usage: ktisis-creature-creation.

No, I have not used that verse, but it is a good one to use.

I do not think they want to see it and relate it to their trinity.

I do use Colossians a lot.