John 10:33 Modern English Version (MEV)
33 The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, claim to be God.”
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What is the express image of God?
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John 10:33 Modern English Version (MEV)
33 The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, claim to be God.”
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keypurr
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Bring it on friend haha
keypurr
Well-known member
Where in this verse did Jesus say he was God?
I Need a lot more from you to prove this point.
Read the words of Jesus in JOHN 17:3
Yes I agree, that is another topic but also a ploy of the desperate. I'm not going to debate with someone who doesn't believe the Word of God is inspired and NOT corrupt.
You keep using express, when the proper word is EXACT. Please step away from the KJV.
I don't really care what ancient English translation read, I read current, modern, accurate English translation, plus I have the Greek to study should I need to. This type of deflection is not acceptable.
I did early one.
John 14:7, 9 (NIV)
John 10:30 (NIV)
Now please deal with them, not just ignore them by denying what they actually say.
That's kind of avoiding my pointed questions keypurr and MORE does not take you backwards.
At the point in the scriptures where we are told that mankind is created in the image of God, all we know about God is that he is the Creator. Perhaps this means that the way we are in the image of God is that we too are creative. If you would know how God thinks, study the minds of artists.
:doh: Read the verse. You do not believe because you do not want to.
keypurr
Well-known member
You seem to think that your the only one with an opinion on the content of scripture. Dangerous thoughts Stan, we all have a lot to learn from his Bible. I would not put my entire trust in the NIV, although it is fairly good. I do not believe any translation is 100% correct.
John is one of my favorite books, I will pray that you get some understanding of it.
keypurr
Well-known member
Not really. I guess I was not impressed with what you say.
keypurr
Well-known member
Read in many times, where did Jesus say he was God?
He said he was the son of God, not GOD? For that the Jews were going to stone him.
keypurr
Well-known member
Consider that the image of God is not the same as an exact image of God.
And what does the express image mean? (duly or exactly formed or represented dictionary .com)
keypurr
Well-known member
Great question. I agree with Stan it means exact. But let us look at the translations to see what they think.
Hebrews 1:3
(ASV) who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(BBE) Who, being the outshining of his glory, the true image of his substance, supporting all things by the word of his power, having given himself as an offering making clean from sins, took his seat at the right hand of God in heaven;
(Bishops) Who beyng the bryghtnesse of the glorie, and the very image of his substaunce, vpholdyng all thynges with the worde of his power, hauing by him selfe pourged our sinnes, hath syt on the ryght hande of the maiestie on hye:
(CEV) God's Son has all the brightness of God's own glory and is like him in every way. By his own mighty word, he holds the universe together. After the Son had washed away our sins, he sat down at the right side of the glorious God in heaven.
(DRB) Who being the brightness of his glory and the figure of his substance and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high:
(ESV) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(Geneva) Who being the brightnes of the glory, and the ingraued forme of his person, and bearing vp all things by his mightie worde, hath by himselfe purged our sinnes, and sitteth at the right hand of the Maiestie in the highest places,
(GNB) He reflects the brightness of God's glory and is the exact likeness of God's own being, sustaining the universe with his powerful word. After achieving forgiveness for the sins of all human beings, he sat down in heaven at the right side of God, the Supreme Power.
(GW) His Son is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of God's being. He holds everything together through his powerful words. After he had cleansed people from their sins, he received the highest position, the one next to the Father in heaven.
(ISV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty
(KJV) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(NAS77) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(NASB) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NET.) The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
(NIrV) The Son is the gleaming brightness of God's glory. He is the exact likeness of God's being. He uses his powerful word to hold all things together. He provided the way for people to be made pure from sin. Then he sat down at the right hand of the King, the Majesty in heaven.
(NIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
(NKJV) who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NRSV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NRSVA) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(TNIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
(YLT) who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might--through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest,
I think they all agree, express image means God made a copy of himself. So this IMAGE is a created spirit and has the fullness of the father. Just like I have trying to show you for three years.
What do YOU see in this verse BR?
Well today we know more than that. We know based on the original Hebrew that God was a plural word and that He said, "Let US make man in OUR image". We also know, based on the NT, that God presents Himself in 3 distinct manifestations, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We then can safely conclude that as we are tripartite so is God.
It is not outright, but some things of God are not. We take the WHOLE of scripture to see who God is.
Don't start getting bent out of shape now. If you have a problem with the scriptures, as and how I quote them, then address them and I will reciprocate with your responses. This is a discussion forum is it not, or are you here just to assert your POV with no accountability?
Not in the slightest keypurr.
For the Greek word χαρακτήρ (character) in Heb 1:3, Vine's states;
the special function of creating and upholding the universe is ascribed to Christ under His titles of Word, Image, and Son, respectively. The kind of Creatorship so predicated of Him is not that of a mere instrument or artificer in the formation of the world, but that of One 'by whom, in whom, and for whom' all things are made, and through whom they subsist. This implies the assertion of His true and absolute Godhood" (Laidlaw, in Hastings' Bib. Dic.).
The fact is if you move OFF the one word you are fixated on, you will see that Jesus is described as; "sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."
This describes God, not just a man.
Again as the scriptures say that ONLY God is our savior, Is 43:11-12 (NIV), then Jesus has to be God, because He is clearly our savior, or at least He is mine. Is He yours?
keypurr
Well-known member
I am not the one who says only my opinion is right. For three years I have asked for verses to prove me wrong. I think it is of great importance to see that the original son of God is a spirit. You, on the other hand, don't seem to care for it interferes with your Church training.
I believe God gave us minds to use, not just follow. We both see different things in Heb 1:3 and John 1. Not knowing Greek, I rely on the translations, comparing them brings understanding.
keypurr
Well-known member
Again Stan, I try not to get bent out of shape. But I am human, like Jesus was.