What is the express image of God?

[dave3712]

And it really all comes back to God as 'Spirit' working and acting within creation.

Spirit alone is life and truth, and so all that is generated from this Spirit-source, however it is 'imaged' (as a divine Son or Christ serving as the Agent of God)....affects the soul for good.

The rest is more or less semantics.



pj

In the common language of today, images in our mind are just a collection of thoughts which the Bible calls spirits.

When our thoughts image and correspond with what is True, then we are in Christ, which is a euphemism or another way of saying "Truth."


"Thoughts, alone is life and truth, (our existence is a mental experience which we have taken to be physical), and so all that is generated from this Thought-source," (i.e., our mind, which is the meaning of soul in the Hebrew and the Greek Bibles).

 

[dave3712]

*
That's what the bible teaches Bub..."He who was in the form of God He thought it not robbery to be co-equal with God but made Himself of no reputation but took upon Himself the form of a servant and being found in the form of man humbled Himself."

So being in the form of God [you cunningly changed it into "a" form of God in another thread because you said you were being sly] He became Man.

What the verse above is telling you is that Christ, the son-of-God, departed from Jesus (the son-of-man) during the metamorphous back to his physical self which we call the Transfiguration.

In other words, when baptized by John, the spirit of God came down as a dove and indwelled Jesus.
Jesus was therein transfigured into the Christ, or son-of-God.











Phil 2:6-8, "...although He, (Jesus), EXISTED IN THE FORM OF GOD, (morphing almighty reality as the personified Truth), did not regard (Truth as) equality with God, (i.e.; the ever unfolding almigthy Reality which nurtures and entraps us), a thing (difficult) to be grasped (in that one, Truth, is but the mental image of the other, i.e.; Reality), but EMPTIED Himself, (in a Ritual of Kenosis that did portray the evacuating of noxious and defiling effects leaving an ascetic form of behavior accompanied with austerities), taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of MEN. And being found in appearance as a man, He HUMBLED Himself by becoming obedient to the point of DEATH, even death on a cross.

 

[dave3712]

Then Scripture says that Yahweh laid the foundation of the earth through Christ Jesus (whom Yahweh calls “God”!).

Well, how could Yahweh have laid the foundation of the earth alone when Christ was right there with Him?
How is there only one true God when Yahweh calls Christ Jesus “God”?

Has anyone that you know of come up with a satisfactory answer?

Yes,...
I have told you the answer to this puzzle.
The mystery of "god" is over.



The answer identifies "god" as that creative eternal everlasting Force behind the unfolding almighty Reality within which Life exists.
In "His" wake, the ever unfolding Reality sires Truth as "His" son.

Man images Truth in his mind, and everything that exists is created for man mentally.









God is all there is, ie; Reality itself... the whole external existence beyond our mind is the almighty God to which all life must bow:

...Truth inside our head, is the Holy Spirit, the image of God, is present inside our mind when our thinking correctly images the TRUTH, or the picture of Reality inside our mind.



The problem here on this forum is that no one really wants the mystery of God to end, because then all the BS must end too.



7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

 

[surrender]

What the verse above is telling you is that Christ, the son-of-God, departed from Jesus (the son-of-man) during the metamorphous back to his physical self which we call the Transfiguration.

In other words, when baptized by John, the spirit of God came down as a dove and indwelled Jesus.
Jesus was therein transfigured into the Christ, or son-of-God.

Jesus was known as the "son of God" at the age of 12 when he called God "his" Father.

 

[Ps82]

Hi freelight,

You wrote:

One can take these subject only so far...before its just more spinning on the hamster wheel, splitting hairs or straining at gnats - you know the drill.

Funny, I find that we can't seem to get past the basics found in scripture ... we hardly ever get to the level of splitting hairs and straining at gnats when it come to deep theorizing.

You also mentioned:

You cant put 'God' in a box. From our limited finite human perspectives...there will always be different points of view.

That is truth ... BUT the ONE invisible spiritual God was able to associate Himself with a finite visible presence.


You concluded:

To me, 'God' is One, yet also 'many'....whether you compound Him (or Her ) into an original Trinity or a pantheon,...no matter...since All is God anyways. All is Brahman.

I will disagree here ... by saying: All are not God in the sense that all are equal to God ... for the created beings will always be less than God ... since God only deals out unto them measures of his nature.

It is true that all things consist of God ... but God is able to allocate, associate, and impart by measures of his nature unto created beings. He can also determine functions and restrictentities and created things to limited boundaries and strict laws ... Whether God is measuring out from His own nature unto create beings ... life, power, intellect, talents, or individuality... the truth remains that created things are never equal with God.

The only being ever to exist on earth that had ALL of God's spirit, power, etc. associated with him was our Lord Jesus. (John 3:34,35) He could claim to be equal with the Father without considering it to be form of robbery of God.

 

[Ps82]

*
That's what the bible teaches Bub..."He who was in the form of God He thought it not robbery to be co-equal with God but made Himself of no reputation but took upon Himself the form of a servant and being found in the form of man humbled Himself."

So being in the form of God [you cunningly changed it into "a" form of God in another thread because you said you were being sly] He became Man.

This is sooo... correct.
How did God become a man?

a.) First the invisible Spiritual God created an IMAGE / a bodily form for himself ...
b.) Then he associated his unique nature with this form so that IT personally represented Him within creation. IT only did and said what God wanted when IT appeared.
c.)Then he shared this image and likeness with humanity when he formed Adam. God the Father's future rescued children were going to favor him within his kingdom.
d.) God manifested his IMAGE / His body of heaven in His clearness KJV (Exodus 24:9,10,11,12) unto men in OT times... and became known as the God of Israel ... their Jehovah, my KJV LORD.
d.) Then when God was ready to come as the Savior (Isaiah 43:11), he manifested his IMAGE / body of heaven again - but in mortal human flesh the second time. Colossians 1:14,15
e.) Once again God associated his invisible nature with this particular living bodily presence - so that IT only said and did what God wanted.
Colossians 1:15,16; John 3:34,35

God remained God ... but appeared as a literal man of flesh... and all of his nature was associated with the body of the Christ.

 

[dave3712]

Jesus was known as the "son of God" at the age of 12 when he called God "his" Father.

We all pray, "My father who is art in heaven,"... of course.

But what seems clear is the Jesus, around age 30, had "coming eating and drinking, a wine bibber and glutton" who was called the son-of-man until he was anointed by God as the son-of-God in whom God was well pleased:



Mat 3:16
And Jesus, (the son of man), when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, (in this ritual of Plerosis), and he saw the Spirit of God,[/B] (the immortal Elijah), descending like a dove, and lighting upon him, (in a fulling by the indwelling spirit of Elijah):

Mat 3:17 (Then and only then does the son-of-God appear),…
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, "This, (now), is my beloved Son, (the immortal Elijah), in whom I am well pleased."

In the rituals of Plerosis, the filling of time or the beginning again of the new time, dramas of excess and overabundance of power are portrayed in the rituals. Specific dramatic roles in these rituals imitate the power of deities in bringing about the renewal of the time of the cosmos. The interpenetration of the human imitation and cooperation with the deeds of the myth creates the dramatic character of the rituals.


The evidence that Elijah had returned in 32AD is found in what John said:

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven (as we read about what happened in 32AD), but he, (The Elijah), that came down (as The Christ, after 800 years: [Matt 3:16,17]), from heaven, even the Son of man, (Jesus), which is (now, after 33AD), in heaven (again: [Luke 24:51).
/////

 

[dave3712]

This is sooo... correct.
How did God become a man?

a.) First the invisible Spiritual God created an IMAGE / a bodily form for himself ...
b.) Then he associated his unique nature with this form so that IT personally represented Him within creation. IT only did and said what God wanted when IT appeared.
c.)Then he shared this image and likeness with humanity when he formed Adam. God the Father's future rescued children were going to favor him within his kingdom.
d.) God manifested his IMAGE / His body of heaven in His clearness KJV (Exodus 24:9,10,11,12) unto men in OT times... and became known as the God of Israel ... their Jehovah, my KJV LORD.
d.) Then when God was ready to come as the Savior (Isaiah 43:11), he manifested his IMAGE / body of heaven again - but in mortal human flesh the second time. Colossians 1:14,15
e.) Once again God associated his invisible nature with this particular living bodily presence - so that IT only said and did what God wanted.
Colossians 1:15,16; John 3:34,35

God remained God ... but appeared as a literal man of flesh... and all of his nature was associated with the body of the Christ.

It seems to me that you and Free do not accept Truth as your "God."

If your god is NOT simply Truth, can you offer a rational higher power that men ought accept in its place, and under what circumstances?


In our debates here, I have been working onthe assumption that should Truth become obvious, all would bow to it, even had they taken some other position in this discussion prior.

 

[freelight]

images arise in consciousness......

images arise in consciousness......

Hi freelight,



You concluded:

To me, 'God' is One, yet also 'many'....whether you compound Him (or Her ) into an original Trinity or a pantheon,...no matter...since All is God anyways. All is Brahman.

I will disagree here ... by saying: All are not God in the sense that all are equal to God ... for the created beings will always be less than God ... since God only deals out unto them measures of his nature.

It is true that all things consist of God ... but God is able to allocate, associate, and impart by measures of his nature unto created beings. He can also determine functions and restrictentities and created things to limited boundaries and strict laws ... Whether God is measuring out from His own nature unto create beings ... life, power, intellect, talents, or individuality... the truth remains that created things are never equal with God.

It depends on your perspective, metaphysical understanding and context. Only where there is space-time-relativity/dimensions/measures/difference/divisions, etc. (the world of 'duality') are there 'allocations' of 'this' and 'that', there seeming to be 'you' and 'me'....or....'me' and 'God' as 'seperate' from each other. But from a 'non-dualistic' perspective...there is only 'being' and 'consciousness',...God is All That IS.....in the sense that 'God' is the only and sole reality-source, MIND and Spirit-presence, that primal Energy and substance out of which all is made, being omnipresent, the substratum and 'context' of all that is invisible and visible. Right NOW...there is only God. There is no 'God' outside of Now....or beyond 'Here',.. being All that is. There is no 'God' outside or beyond this "I" that I Am. 'God' is this Spirit-reality present Now, which includes the whole of infinity. There is only this pure awareness, and all that is included in consciousness...all movements or apparent relations. All is included in 'God'.....as 'God'(however distinct, associated or formed). Only the mind differentiates on a 'relative' level, in the world of space-time perception, a play of the senses.

'God' can not even be proved to exist, apart from your own existence, as only your 'being' and 'consciousness' is 'Self-evident'. Any 'image' that arsies, does so in 'consciousness'. Consciousness is all there is (no matter how you define, formulate, differentiate, measure or assume anything).

The only being ever to exist on earth that had ALL of God's spirit, power, etc. associated with him was our Lord Jesus. (John 3:34,35) He could claim to be equal with the Father without considering it to be form of robbery of God.

So it is taught among some

Jesus and other 'avatars' do reveal the invisible glory of God to us. In a universe of energy or spirit in-form-ation its inevitable that 'God' reveals himself to us in some form or image.


pj

 

[surrender]

We all pray, "My father who is art in heaven,"... of course.

Yeah, but we aren’t risking out lives when we do it. Throughout the gospels Christ calls God his Father, not just in a general sense but so specifically that the people try to kill him for it. Hebrews 1:5-6 speaks of God’s begetting Christ and His bringing Christ into the world into close proximity, so I think the author of Hebrews sees the begetting at Christ’s birth. Further, Paul has yet a different perspective on the timing of the begetting. Paul fulfills Psalm 2:7 in the resurrection (Acts 13:33; Rom. 1:4).

But what seems clear is the Jesus, around age 30, had "coming eating and drinking, a wine bibber and glutton"…

Jesus was still hanging out with prostitutes and tax collectors long after his baptism. Hmm….

…who was called the son-of-man until he was anointed by God as the son-of-God in whom God was well pleased:

Christ’s favorite phrase for himself throughout the gospels is “son of man,” so I have no idea how you could possibly say that he was called son of man until he was anointed by God as the son of God.

 

[freelight]

The Mental Universe.......

The Mental Universe.......

It seems to me that you and Free do not accept Truth as your "God."

'God' is Absolute Reality...the source of all truth, naturally. Can you show where you draw your assumption above? Truth is what actually is....here/now/eternally so (which includes all its movements, evolutions, relativity and transformations....that which is beyond space or time as well as what arises as 'creation' in the play of space and time). I've also answered you in our 'Mighty I Am Presence' thread as well. The concept of 'Brahman' is important to understand.

From the school of metaphysics I draw from,....it is non-dual in origin, while the play of creation is a mind-play as it were, as we consider that the Universe is MENTAL. We also explore this in my Kybalion thread....and elsewhere.


pj

 

[dave3712]

Yeah, but we aren’t risking out lives when we do it.

Throughout the gospels Christ calls God his Father, not just in a general sense but so specifically that the people try to kill him for it..

Yeah...
That's my point.
Christ was not Jesus.

Jesus was the son-of-man.
Christ is the son-of-god.

The gospels uses this differentiation to separate Jesus from the Christ.

Jesus becomes The Christ when anointed by God at the baptism by John.
And, at the metamorphosis (called transfiguration), Christ returns Jesus to mere son-of-man, again, a mortal who will actually die on the Cross.

It seems to support what I say here, that the spirit of God had to come down and alight on Jesus before God says, "this is my son."

Consider that, since Christ is God, were Jesus to have already been the Christ at his baptism, it would be contradictory to say the spirit was coming down (Matt 3:16), when Jesus was already standing in the water.
See what i mean?

 

[dave3712]

'God' is Absolute Reality...the source of all truth, naturally.

Can you show where you draw your assumption above?

Truth is what actually is....

Definitions are necessary here.

Reality is what actually exists.

Truth is a mental concept in our mind which corresponds to what really exists.


Men have concepts about Reality which have been wrong over the ages.
They believed they had Truth imaged clearly in their mind.
But they were wrong.

The worlds they imagined did not exist at all.
Truth is sired by the ever unfolding Reality which never stops changing into the next frame of existence.

Truth is to the ever unfolding Reality as Current Events will be to accurate History.

 

[keypurr]

Keypurr,

It would take me a very long time to answer all that you have said above and having done so - I doubt you would hear me.

Take for example this statement of yours: "Do the words seem to conflict, yes they do." Yes Keypurr, the words do SEEM to conflict but actually they don't.

To understand how Isaiah 44:24 perfectly matches with Colossians 1:15-16 and Hebrews 1:1-3; you must first find faith to believe Isaiah 44:24.

Keypurr do you believe Isaiah 44:24 which says:

"Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself?

Keypurr, I cannot proceed any further with you until you demonstrate that you believe Isaiah 44:24. The only way you can do this is to cast aside your own ideas about Hebrews and Colossians and honestly answer my 6 questions succinctly without comment.

Keypurr, I believe that I know what I am doing and have proved that already when I forced you to admit you were wrong in saying that Christ didn't die.

All I want you to do for a moment is to imagine that you only have the scroll of Isaiah, nothing else, no New Testament. Pretend you are Isaiah and answer my questions forgetting for a moment that you ever read the NT.

Here again is the what Isaiah believed:

"Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself..." (Isa.44:24)

If you are willing Keypurr (it will take you but a few moment, far less than this letter of mine), please answer my simple SIX questions about what Isaiah believed:

1. According to Isaiah who was it "that maketh all things?"
2. According to Isaiah, was it the LORD " that maketh ALL things?" (Answer yes or no)
3. According to Isaiah, when the LORD spread abroad the heavens, was he "ALONE?" (Answer yes or no)
4. According to Isaiah and to Isaiah only, did the LORD say: "I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself?" (Answer yes or no)
5. Is it true that Isaiah said that: "the LORD maketh all things; stretcheth forth the heavens alone; and spreadeth abroad the earth by himself?" (Answer yes or no)
6. Did Isaiah believe that the LORD God made everything ALONE...BY HIMSELF? (Answer yes or no)

Do not be afraid of the truth Keypurr, just answer as if you were Isaiah. Look! I will even write the numbers for you:

1. LORD

2. Y

3. Y

4. Y

5. Y

6. Y

Now, all have to is answer question 1 with seven letters and 2-6 with yes or no. After you have answered these questions and have believed Isaiah we will have a firm foundation from which to tackle the New Testament. This is how to find truth, start with "milk" and work up to meat.

Keypurr, at one point you asked me to pray and I have prayed that you will be able to understand how Isaiah perfectly matches Colossians and Hebrews and how the term "express image of his person" relates our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, to his Father.

Thank you,

Read!

I answered your questions above, now I wish to hear what you have to say about how they mix with the NT. I know God's word should not conflict, so give me your thoughts friend.

Peace

 

[surrender]

keypurr,

Did you reply to post #336? If so, where is it? If not, go check it out.

 

[keypurr]

*
That's what the bible teaches Bub..."He who was in the form of God He thought it not robbery to be co-equal with God but made Himself of no reputation but took upon Himself the form of a servant and being found in the form of man humbled Himself."

So being in the form of God [you cunningly changed it into "a" form of God in another thread because you said you were being sly] He became Man.

So I should not listen to Jesus when he said that God is a spirit?

Totton, I see his express image taking the form of man, not God himself. To me Christ is a spirit, the son who God used to create everything. Jesus was the physical son who was given the Christ spirit, which is a copy of God the father. I think you see the father and Jesus as one person. That seems to be the difference between us.

I never said that I was being sly in any of my posts that I can recall.

Peace Totton

 

[keypurr]

You’re mystified because it’s a mystery. Who wouldn’t be mystified? Scripture says that Yahweh laid the foundation of the earth ALONE. Then Scripture says that Yahweh laid the foundation of the earth through Christ Jesus (whom Yahweh calls “God”!). Well, how could Yahweh have laid the foundation of the earth alone when Christ was right there with Him? How is there only one true God when Yahweh calls Christ Jesus “God”? Has anyone that you know of come up with a satisfactory answer? Whatever theory they come up with, they can’t sacrifice one Scripture for another, and that’s what I feel you have done (& most theories do for that matter). I appreciate your desire to figure it out, though.

I am sorry friend, I did read this post but some how did not reply. Please forgive me. Yes, there seems to be conflict here, but we will figure it out. Mr Read is going to post his ideas soon.

Yes, for the most part, you do. But you can’t leave any Scripture out.

Some images are creations. I didn’t create my image reflected in the mirror.

In a way you did generate an image by being in front ofthe mirror. But thaty is nmot an express image

An uncreated image could take the form of man and die.

This could be the very reason he made the image in the first place.

Yes, He sent His Son. And He calls this Son, “God.” He tells us that His Son (“God”) laid the foundation of the earth.

I don’t know. It certainly has generated a lot of discussion about God and His Son.

I think God had a son before Jesus was born, a spiritual one.

I believe you.

I’m not sure. In some of our past discussions, you’ve seemed so stubborn, but maybe it’s because of what you’ve just shared (that your mind can’t seem to drift from this theory). I empathize with you because I, too, have longed to make sense of this God of ours and His Son, but nothing has resonated as completely accurate.

I admit that I am stubborn at times, we all are. But to find truth we must open our minds to what others have to say.

The wording here is…lacking. To say that Yahweh is the “real” God implies that the Son is the “fake” (or not so real) God. Yes, the Son is in subjection to the Father. And yet Yahweh says of him that his name is above all names. He has all the authority of Yahweh Himself. The only way, I suppose, that Christ Jesus is “less” than Yahweh is that he is not Yahweh but the “image” of Yahweh. BUT Yahweh IS Yahweh THROUGH His image. There is no Yahweh—for us, anyway—without His image.

When you put it that way, it does cheakpen his meaning, but we both know Jesus shows the glory of his Father.

LOL! Yes, it sounds mixed up. Especially when you add in the truth that there is only one true God. What does that make the “God that has a God”? The “not true” God? Yep, mixed up. Whatever “theory” we formulate, we’ve got to keep in ALL Scripture.

When you come right dow to it that is what appears to have happened. It seems that there is more than one God dwhen you have a most high God as stated in Luke.

There is one true God.
Yahweh is God.
The Son is God (according to Yahweh via the author of Hebrews).
The one true God laid the foundation of the earth ALONE.
The one true God laid the foundation of the earth through the Son.

You’ve agreed that there is one God. But you’ve also written that Christ is “a” God. If Christ is “a” God, then there are two Gods (Yahweh and the “other” one). But if Christ is “the” God, we have one God—Yahweh, who is invisible, and Christ Jesus, who is visible. One God expressed in two different ways: invisible and visible.

God bless!

I wonder if we ever be able to see all truth.

Peace my friend

 

[keypurr]

keypurr,

Did you reply to post #336? If so, where is it? If not, go check it out.

I found it and apoligize for some how not replying.

 

[surrender]

In a way you did generate an image by being in front ofthe mirror. But thaty is nmot an express image

I didn't generate anything. Because there was a mirror to reflect and eyes to receive, my image appeared. God created a "mirror" for our eyes to see an image that wouldn't otherwise be seen, but the mirror isn't Him.

Also, it is an exact image according to the way the word is used here (Wisdom 14:17). Do you see the same word used any place else that would help you define it? God is invisible. Jesus is not. That means the image can’t be “exact” in every way.

his could be the very reason he made the image in the first place.

Why would God need to create the image if the uncreated image can take the form of a man?

When you put it that way, it does cheakpen his meaning, but we both know Jesus shows the glory of his Father.

Why does God need Jesus to show us God’s glory? There is no Yahweh—for us, anyway—without His image.

When you come right dow to it that is what appears to have happened. It seems that there is more than one God dwhen you have a most high God as stated in Luke.

Yes, one would come to that conclusion if other Scripture, just as important, didn’t say that there is only one God.

I wonder if we ever be able to see all truth.

Let me throw this out to you. If I am invisible to creatures that I’d like to be visible to, but the only way to do that is to manifest myself in a visible form, does that mean I’m two? Does that mean I’m two even when my invisible form is distinct from my visible form? Two forms, yes. But are there really two me’s?

 

[Ps82]

Hi freelight,
You wrote:

It depends on your perspective, metaphysical understanding and context. Only where there is space-time-relativity/dimensions/measures/difference/divisions, etc. (the world of 'duality') are there 'allocations' of 'this' and 'that', there seeming to be 'you' and 'me'....or....'me' and 'God' as 'seperate' from each other. But from a 'non-dualistic' perspective...there is only 'being' and 'consciousness',...God is All That IS.....in the sense that 'God' is the only and sole reality-source, MIND and Spirit-presence, that primal Energy and substance out of which all is made, being omnipresent, the substratum and 'context' of all that is invisible and visible.

Aren't your teachers choosing to ignore that "creation" actually did take place ... and that things do now exist in God? They are choosing to ignore God's plans for his creation ... and God's purpose for creating... and God's promises. They strive to be ONE with God by their own methods instead of accepting that it was Jesus who was ONE with God and who provides the WAY for us to be one with him as he is with the Father. IOW, they want to leave the SAVIOR out of the loop... For Christian believers - that a serious matter.

You wrote:

'God' can not even be proved to exist, apart from your own existence, as only your 'being' and 'consciousness' is 'Self-evident'. Any 'image' that arsies, does so in 'consciousness'. Consciousness is all there is (no matter how you define, formulate, differentiate, measure or assume anything).

When writing this it sounds that your teachers think that man is more important and powerful than God ... for without us no one could ever say that there was a Creator ... but I dare to say that God created more than mankind. The Bible reveals that there are a number of heavenly type being that exist which we cannot naturally see with our own eyes by our own power.

You wrote:

Jesus and other 'avatars' do reveal the invisible glory of God to us. In a universe of energy or spirit in-form-ation its inevitable that 'God' reveals himself to us in some form or image.

Once again you make the story sound like it is all about revealing things to us ... when I believe that the story is all about God and what he is doing.