What is the express image of God?

[Ps82]

Friend, God is a spirit. For many years you have saying that he is invisiable, you are correct, like the wind, you cannot see him, you see the effects of him. The express image of the Father is also invisiable. It also is spirit. God can make himself to be any thing he wants to be, so can his image. I think only Christ has truly seen his Father as he really is. Only Christ is pure enough to see him.

I can give you a photo of me, but not my mind. The express image is a copy of God in all ways. His being, his mind, his wisdom and his thoughts, his person. It has power and understanding. Then one day God sent this spirit to this world to teach us all about him. The one person who could be trusted with this power was his sinless son of Mary.

Well, I'm about to get busy the rest of the week... so life interrupts posting. I'm sure I will see you around again soon. I'll just leave this thread saying:

An express "IMAGE" is something that can be seen. People saw the express image of our Lord Jesus ... and they saw the express image of the Father LORD God.

 

[Ps82]

See ya Freelight.

 

[freelight]

meta-physic-image.......

meta-physic-image.......

I understand you believe that the express image of God is God, is that correct? I would have to disagree with that. It would not be an image then.

God's image can only come from 'God', since there is no other source. In any case,...the image of 'God' is reflected back into the Consciousness of 'God', since all exists and is related by that One Universal Mind or Spirit. There is only One Eternal, Infinite Spirit-Source that originates all consciousness, substance and form. It all comes back to 'God', and returns to 'God' anyways,...since in truth....there is only God Existing as Reality. - all else are images, reflections, shapes, forms, dimensions, relative points of view, conceptions....of 'God'.

There is only One Infinite Spirit from which all is derived and takes its various form(s) in the world of 'duality', where it 'appears' there is 'this' and 'that', a subjective consciousness looking at an objective form or perceived image (this is only in the world of 'seperation' or 'duality' where the "I" of consciousnes distinguishes itself from forms 'out there' somewhere. This is the distinction between 'Creator' and 'created' and other divisions). But even if you seperate 'God' who is LIGHT (Pure Spirit Awareness) from its 'image'(or any 'image' for that matter)...it is still 'God' that is the divine subject since it is sourced from that Pure Spirit-consciousness, pervaded by it, and sustained by it. That 'image' is a creative expression of the Mind that originated it. You can 'seperate' a created image from the Creative Intelligence or Spirit-source, thats fine...but only the Spirit-source of it...is life.

Jesus as an 'express image' depicts Jesus as being God's representation and representative. MAN is that image and likeness,...this is why understanding the concept of 'Adam-kadmon' is an important insight, as Paul refers to Jesus as the Second or Last Adam,.....all comes back to MAN, that archetype of 'primordial man' being God's pure image. This would mean that God reveals/reflects or expresses his SELF in an individualized form.

This also shows how Jesus is not just some mere 'image' to worship, but he also shows us our 'divine potential' to be like him. This is rather important. The 'Christ' within in us is that 'germ' of glory.

We are the offspring of God.

But I do accept that it would represent God, and speak as God.

Indeed,.....but an 'image' all by itself does not speak, unless it is a conscious being. Just calling Jesus an 'image' is actually insufficient, since he is a living personality. The word 'image' only signifies that the invisible Spirit is investing itself within the form of Man, as Man, to glorify God since Man is God in expression.

Thank you for your thoughts friend

You're welcome. The 'image' of God is a subject that crosses on many levels and in many schools of thought, hence drawing from these various sources we get a better 'picture' of what such is. All in creation is actually from the imagination of God, because all form is made from the primordial energy of Source, directed/designed by Infinite Intelligence, for the cosmos is a creation of MIND energized by SPIRIT. It is all rather a divine science



pj

 

[GeneZ]

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Who or What is this EXPRESS image of God?

1. God is a spirit, so his image would be a spirit.
2. This is God's firstborn of every creature, a creation.
3. This spirit has deity for it has the fullness of the father.
4. This spirit was with God before the creation, creation was done through this spirit.
5. This spirit is a form of God

I use the term Christ spirit to discribe this image.

What do YOU think it is?

1. God is a spirit, so his image would be a spirit.

If that were the case? We could never see God. There would be no image.

That is why God needed to provide man a means to see him. Not as spirit, but as spirit manifested as flesh. John 1:18.

John 1:18

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,
who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.
​

Jesus Christ is God's means to have man who can not see God as God really is, to be seen in a form that man is able to relate to.

Also, Jesus Christ is God's provision and means to interpret God to man. For God transcends the thinking of man. God has Jesus, who is both God and man, as the means to "exegete" God for man. That is so man can begin to relate to the being of God.

The Greek translated "has made him known," is the same Greek word used to describe the job of a pastor, who needs to exegete Scripture so his congregation can understand what was being said. Jesus interprets God in a way, that when he presents the interpretation to us, we as men can relate to what is being communicated to us.

There is much to cover here. Too much for one post. But, the name "Jesus," speaks of the humanity side of the union that the Lord God is manifested as. Jesus the man, was born in time. But, the one being in union with Jesus has always been God eternally.

One more thing. The Lord God of Israel was not manifested as spirit alone. He was uniquely an eternal union of both immaterial soul and spirit. That is what made the Lord God of Israel the communicator to man, and distinguished from the Father. For we can relate to a soul. We are souls.

Leviticus 26:10-12

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul
will not reject you.'I will also walk among you and
be your God, and you shall be My people."



Judges 10:16

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst
and to serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient
because of the trouble of Israel.​

God is not soul. God is spirit. The Lord God of Israel was a unique eternal union of both soul and Deity. That very soul of God later left his position of being in the form of God and entered the sinless body born of Mary to then become as a man. That is why it says he was in the "form of God." For he had been the union of immaterial soul and Deity prior to the Incarnation. After he finished his work as a man, he returned to heaven and is now manifested not only as Soul and Deity in union. But now that union is permanently manifested in bodily form!
​

 

[keypurr]

God's image can only come from 'God', since there is no other source. In any case,...the image of 'God' is reflected back into the Consciousness of 'God', since all exists and is related by that One Universal Mind or Spirit. There is only One Eternal, Infinite Spirit-Source that originates all consciousness, substance and form. It all comes back to 'God', and returns to 'God' anyways,...since in truth....there is only God Existing as Reality. - all else are images, reflections, shapes, forms, dimensions, relative points of view, conceptions....of 'God'.

There is only One Infinite Spirit from which all is derived and takes its various form(s) in the world of 'duality', where it 'appears' there is 'this' and 'that', a subjective consciousness looking at an objective form or perceived image (this is only in the world of 'seperation' or 'duality' where the "I" of consciousnes distinguishes itself from forms 'out there' somewhere. This is the distinction between 'Creator' and 'created' and other divisions). But even if you seperate 'God' who is LIGHT (Pure Spirit Awareness) from its 'image'(or any 'image' for that matter)...it is still 'God' that is the divine subject since it is sourced from that Pure Spirit-consciousness, pervaded by it, and sustained by it. That 'image' is a creative expression of the Mind that originated it. You can 'seperate' a created image from the Creative Intelligence or Spirit-source, thats fine...but only the Spirit-source of it...is life.

Jesus as an 'express image' depicts Jesus as being God's representation and representative. MAN is that image and likeness,...this is why understanding the concept of 'Adam-kadmon' is an important insight, as Paul refers to Jesus as the Second or Last Adam,.....all comes back to MAN, that archetype of 'primordial man' being God's pure image. This would mean that God reveals/reflects or expresses his SELF in an individualized form.

This also shows how Jesus is not just some mere 'image' to worship, but he also shows us our 'divine potential' to be like him. This is rather important. The 'Christ' within in us is that 'germ' of glory.

We are the offspring of God.




Indeed,.....but an 'image' all by itself does not speak, unless it is a conscious being. Just calling Jesus an 'image' is actually insufficient, since he is a living personality. The word 'image' only signifies that the invisible Spirit is investing itself within the form of Man, as Man, to glorify God since Man is God in expression.




You're welcome. The 'image' of God is a subject that crosses on many levels and in many schools of thought, hence drawing from these various sources we get a better 'picture' of what such is. All in creation is actually from the imagination of God, because all form is made from the primordial energy of Source, directed/designed by Infinite Intelligence, for the cosmos is a creation of MIND energized by SPIRIT. It is all rather a divine science



pj

You speak a lot of truth my friend.

 

[keypurr]

1. God is a spirit, so his image would be a spirit.

If that were the case? We could never see God. There would be no image.

That is why God needed to provide man a means to see him. Not as spirit, but as spirit manifested as flesh. John 1:18.

John 1:18

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,
who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.
​

Jesus Christ is God's means to have man who can not see God as God really is, to be seen in a form that man is able to relate to.

Also, Jesus Christ is God's provision and means to interpret God to man. For God transcends the thinking of man. God has Jesus, who is both God and man, as the means to "exegete" God for man. That is so man can begin to relate to the being of God.

The Greek translated "has made him known," is the same Greek word used to describe the job of a pastor, who needs to exegete Scripture so his congregation can understand what was being said. Jesus interprets God in a way, that when he presents the interpretation to us, we as men can relate to what is being communicated to us.

There is much to cover here. Too much for one post. But, the name "Jesus," speaks of the humanity side of the union that the Lord God is manifested as. Jesus the man, was born in time. But, the one being in union with Jesus has always been God eternally.

One more thing. The Lord God of Israel was not manifested as spirit alone. He was uniquely an eternal union of both immaterial soul and spirit. That is what made the Lord God of Israel the communicator to man, and distinguished from the Father. For we can relate to a soul. We are souls.

Leviticus 26:10-12

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul
will not reject you.'I will also walk among you and
be your God, and you shall be My people."



Judges 10:16

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst
and to serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient
because of the trouble of Israel.​

God is not soul. God is spirit. The Lord God of Israel was a unique eternal union of both soul and Deity. That very soul of God later left his position of being in the form of God and entered the sinless body born of Mary to then become as a man. That is why it says he was in the "form of God." For he had been the union of immaterial soul and Deity prior to the Incarnation. After he finished his work as a man, he returned to heaven and is now manifested not only as Soul and Deity in union. But now that union is permanently manifested in bodily form!
​

Hi GeneZ, forgive me I cannot recall posting with you before, welcome to the thread.

God is a spirit, but he did make an express image of himself. True you can not see it, but it is there. I call it the Christ spirit. God used it to create everything with. With this spirit he reveiled himself to us. Being the exact image of the Father, Christ allowed us to see the personal trates of God.

How do you see Hebrews 1? Do you see a powerful spirit that was created? Keep in mind that an image is a creation.

Peace

 

[keypurr]

Where is Mr Read?

 

[GeneZ]

Hi GeneZ, forgive me I cannot recall posting with you before, welcome to the thread.

God is a spirit, but he did make an express image of himself. True you can not see it, but it is there. I call it the Christ spirit. God used it to create everything with. With this spirit he reveiled himself to us. Being the exact image of the Father, Christ allowed us to see the personal trates of God.

How do you see Hebrews 1? Do you see a powerful spirit that was created? Keep in mind that an image is a creation.

Peace

Looks like you did not bother to read what I said. Sad. I just decided to try here again. Looks like I should not have.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[Read]

Yes, Christ the man died. You just pointed something out to me that is important. When Christ went into man he took the form of man, so he could die. I stand corrected.

But it only reinforces my thoughts. Now we know why God made an experss image, so it could lower itself and take the form of man. (Philippians 2) God could not send himself to die for us, he sent his Christ (son). Now I see a reason for the express image. Christ could die when he took the form of man.

Thank you Read for pointing that out to me, the puzzle is almost complete. Now I ask, what form was he when his Father raised him and he appeared in the closed room?

Peace

Keypurr,
I am not at all satisfied with the answer you gave Bright Raven to his question in #295

Bright Raven asked How could the Christ be a spirit if He offered His flesh and blood as a sacrifice?

BR quoted Luke 24:39 which proves that Christ is NOT a spirit. So Christ says: "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Here our Lord Jesus Christ denies that he is a spirit.

But you Keypurr denied our Lord Jesus Christ by telling BR that: "You will not see the spirit but you can see the man."
The spirit you are referring to of course is not the spirit Christ "gave up" at his death (Jn.19:30); but your own wicked invention with which you have gone awhoring which you call the "CHRIST SPIRIT".

This socalled CHRIST SPIRIT of yours is the same evil spirit which LED YOU in your post #291 to declare THAT Christ cannot die, therefore did not die for the sins of the world.

Here are your exact words Keypurr from post 291 for everybody on TOL to see where your evil CHRIST SPIRIT has led you:

"Christ is a form of God, he cannot die."

But your HERESY that "Christ cannot die" was discovered Keypurr.

However having been reprimanded and after saying: "I stand corrected" you go right back awhoring with your Christ spirit and say to Genez in your post #306:

" God is a spirit, but he did make an express image of himself. True you can not see it, but it is there. I call it the Christ spirit. God used it to create everything with. With this spirit he reveiled himself to us. Being the exact image of the Father, Christ allowed us to see the personal trates of God."

Keypurr this "Christ spirit" is a figure of your own imagination which you have constructed out of your misunderstanding of the term "the express image of his person" in Hebrews 1:3. Let scripture show you that the "image" you have created which you have named "THE CHRIST SPIRIT" is nothing but vanity.

Of your WICKED CHRIST SPIRIT you say in your post #306 "God used it to create everything with." Keypurr what you are apparently saying here is that your supposed CHRIST SPIRIT was WITH the LORD God and God used it to create everything.

Now read Isaiah 44:24 Keypurr:
Isa_44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Now answer these questions Keypurr:
1. According to Isaiah who was it "that maketh all things?"
2. According to Isaiah, was it the LORD " that maketh ALL things?" (Answer yes or no)
3. According to Isaiah, when the LORD spread abroad the heavens, was he "ALONE?" (Answer yes or no)
4. According to Isaiah and to Isaiah only, did the LORD say: "I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself?" (Answer yes or no)
5. Is it true that Isaiah said that: "the LORD maketh all things; stretcheth forth the heavens alone; and spreadeth abroad the earth by himself?" (Answer yes or no)
6. Did Isaiah believe that the LORD God made everything ALONE...BY HIMSELF? (Answer yes or no)

If you answer these 6 questions correctly and admit you were wrong in saying that : "God used it (the Christ spirit) to create everything with" you will begin to understand "the simplicity that is in Christ" Keypurr.

It as Bright Raven tried to tell you Christ is NOT a spirit, neither has there ever been such a thing as a CHRIST SPIRIT, except in your wicked imagination Keypurr.


Read!

 

[freelight]

Creative agency......

Creative agency......

Keypurr,
I am not at all satisfied with the answer you gave Bright Raven to his question in #295

Bright Raven asked How could the Christ be a spirit if He offered His flesh and blood as a sacrifice?

BR quoted Luke 24:39 which proves that Christ is NOT a spirit. So Christ says: "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Here our Lord Jesus Christ denies that he is a spirit.

But you Keypurr denied our Lord Jesus Christ by telling BR that: "You will not see the spirit but you can see the man."
The spirit you are referring to of course is not the spirit Christ "gave up" at his death (Jn.19:30); but your own wicked invention with which you have gone awhoring which you call the "CHRIST SPIRIT".

This socalled CHRIST SPIRIT of yours is the same evil spirit which LED YOU in your post #291 to declare THAT Christ cannot die, therefore did not die for the sins of the world.

Here are your exact words Keypurr from post 291 for everybody on TOL to see where your evil CHRIST SPIRIT has led you:

"Christ is a form of God, he cannot die."

But your HERESY that "Christ cannot die" was discovered Keypurr.

However having been reprimanded and after saying: "I stand corrected" you go right back awhoring with your Christ spirit and say to Genez in your post #306:

" God is a spirit, but he did make an express image of himself. True you can not see it, but it is there. I call it the Christ spirit. God used it to create everything with. With this spirit he reveiled himself to us. Being the exact image of the Father, Christ allowed us to see the personal trates of God."

Keypurr this "Christ spirit" is a figure of your own imagination which you have constructed out of your misunderstanding of the term "the express image of his person" in Hebrews 1:3. Let scripture show you that the "image" you have created which you have named "THE CHRIST SPIRIT" is nothing but vanity.

Of your WICKED CHRIST SPIRIT you say in your post #306 "God used it to create everything with." Keypurr what you are apparently saying here is that your supposed CHRIST SPIRIT was WITH the LORD God and God used it to create everything.

Now read Isaiah 44:24 Keypurr:
Isa_44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Now answer these questions Keypurr:
1. According to Isaiah who was it "that maketh all things?"
2. According to Isaiah, was it the LORD " that maketh ALL things?" (Answer yes or no)
3. According to Isaiah, when the LORD spread abroad the heavens, was he "ALONE?" (Answer yes or no)
4. According to Isaiah and to Isaiah only, did the LORD say: "I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself?" (Answer yes or no)
5. Is it true that Isaiah said that: "the LORD maketh all things; stretcheth forth the heavens alone; and spreadeth abroad the earth by himself?" (Answer yes or no)
6. Did Isaiah believe that the LORD God made everything ALONE...BY HIMSELF? (Answer yes or no)

If you answer these 6 questions correctly and admit you were wrong in saying that : "God used it (the Christ spirit) to create everything with" you will begin to understand "the simplicity that is in Christ" Keypurr.

It as Bright Raven tried to tell you Christ is NOT a spirit, neither has there ever been such a thing as a CHRIST SPIRIT, except in your wicked imagination Keypurr.


Read!

Hi Read,

Adding onto my previous posts, (for a background on my views of 'Christology', seeing that I'm quite liberal to allow for both Unitarian & Trinitarian perspectives and beyond) you'll note this debate of how Jesus is related to 'God' has been going on for centuries.

I'll touch on 2 points from above.

As far as Jesus Christ dying for sins, certainly the man Jesus died,...however the 'divine' or 'incorruptible nature' or 'God' in Jesus or acting thru Jesus could not die, since that divine element is incapable of death. So....a redemption theology or mythology can still hold, since the man Jesus DID die...and was raised to life again (resurrected/transformed). He wouldnt necessarily have to be 'God' to affect an 'atonement'. God could recognize that the death of the man Jesus (or 'god-man', whatever concept you assume) would be efficacious to affect salvation.

Of course problems here arise when assumptions are made on the constitution of Jesus, his human and divine natures (however these are 'assumed') and what process they both went thru during the death, resurrection and ascension (were they together or seperated?). No matter the details there, Jesus could still "take on the sins of the world" per one's doctinal belief. Also...many different positions on Jesus relative to his human and divine natures have been proposed which can become complicated beyond being a 'divine mystery'.

As for a 'Christ-spirit' existing (or not), what does it matter if 'God' alone created or if He created a Firstborn spirit-being thru which he brings forth all creation? Philosophically even the idea of 'God' creating thru his 'Logos'(Word) still holds, as John used such a concept in his correlation with Christ, as a pre-existing spirit or principle that was born of God alongside God serving as an 'creative agent'. What difference does it make what personalities (cosmic beings, divine Sons or angels) are engaged in the creative process or assisting 'God' in his creation of this and other worlds when God alone is still the originating directing power behind all creation. 'God' the Universal Father is still the First Source and Center of all that exists and the originator of all that is or ever will be. He may use creative agencies born of His own BEING in the process of extending or distributing his vast creative domain thru-out the cosmos, as the potential and possibilities of that creation are infinite.





pj

 

[Read]

Hi Read,

Adding onto my previous posts, (for a background on my views of 'Christology', seeing that I'm quite liberal to allow for both Unitarian & Trinitarian perspectives and beyond) you'll note this debate of how Jesus is related to 'God' has been going on for centuries.

I'll touch on 2 points from above.

As far as Jesus Christ dying for sins, certainly the man Jesus died,...however the 'divine' or 'incorruptible nature' or 'God' in Jesus or acting thru Jesus could not die, since that divine element is incapable of death. So....a redemption theology or mythology can still hold, since the man Jesus DID die...and was raised to life again (resurrected/transformed). He wouldnt necessarily have to be 'God' to affect an 'atonement'. God could recognize that the death of the man Jesus (or 'god-man', whatever concept you assume) would be efficacious to affect salvation.

Of course problems here arise when assumptions are made on the constitution of Jesus, his human and divine natures (however these are 'assumed') and what process they both went thru during the death, resurrection and ascension (were they together or seperated?). No matter the details there, Jesus could still "take on the sins of the world" per one's doctinal belief. Also...many different positions on Jesus relative to his human and divine natures have been proposed which can become complicated beyond being a 'divine mystery'.

As for a 'Christ-spirit' existing (or not), what does it matter if 'God' alone created or if He created a Firstborn spirit-being thru which he brings forth all creation? Philosophically even the idea of 'God' creating thru his 'Logos'(Word) still holds, as John used such a concept in his correlation with Christ, as a pre-existing spirit or principle that was born of God alongside God serving as an 'creative agent'. What difference does it make what personalities (cosmic beings, divine Sons or angels) are engaged in the creative process or assisting 'God' in his creation of this and other worlds when God alone is still the originating directing power behind all creation. 'God' the Universal Father is still the First Source and Center of all that exists and the originator of all that is or ever will be. He may use creative agencies born of His own BEING in the process of extending or distributing his vast creative domain thru-out the cosmos, as the potential and possibilities of that creation are infinite.





pj

Free,

The subject of this thread by Keypurr is "What is the express image of God?" The answer is very simple that is what the Son of God is to God his Father, our Lord Jesus Christ - he is the express image of the person of God (Heb.1:3).

However Keypurr has confused the argument by his introduction of his own philosophical idea which he calls THE CHRIST SPIRIT. With this invention Keypurr has gone awhoring even denying that Christ died for our sins. His CHRIST SPIRIT has led him astray.

Now if you agree with me that Keypurr was led astray, then kindly assist me in his recovery by honestly answering the 6 questions I asked of him in relation to Isaiah 44:24 which says:


"Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


1. According to Isaiah who was it "that maketh all things?"
2. According to Isaiah, was it the LORD " that maketh ALL things?" (Answer yes or no)
3. According to Isaiah, when the LORD spread abroad the heavens, was he "ALONE?" (Answer yes or no)
4. According to Isaiah and to Isaiah only, did the LORD say: "I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself?" (Answer yes or no)
5. Is it true that Isaiah said that: "the LORD maketh all things; stretcheth forth the heavens alone; and spreadeth abroad the earth by himself?" (Answer yes or no)
6. Did Isaiah believe that the LORD God made everything ALONE...BY HIMSELF? (Answer yes or no)

Read!

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

With this invention Keypurr has gone awhoring even denying that Christ died for our sins. His CHRIST SPIRIT has led him astray.

Where can I find that keypurr denies that Christ died for our sins? If this is true it is another example of how the denial of Christ's divinity leads to other serious errors.

 

[keypurr]

Looks like you did not bother to read what I said. Sad. I just decided to try here again. Looks like I should not have.

In Christ, GeneZ

Gene, you caught me very late at nite and I am starting to lose it somewhat. I'm sorry if I misundrestood you.

 

[keypurr]

Keypurr,
I am not at all satisfied with the answer you gave Bright Raven to his question in #295

Bright Raven asked How could the Christ be a spirit if He offered His flesh and blood as a sacrifice?

BR quoted Luke 24:39 which proves that Christ is NOT a spirit. So Christ says: "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Here our Lord Jesus Christ denies that he is a spirit.

But you Keypurr denied our Lord Jesus Christ by telling BR that: "You will not see the spirit but you can see the man."
The spirit you are referring to of course is not the spirit Christ "gave up" at his death (Jn.19:30); but your own wicked invention with which you have gone awhoring which you call the "CHRIST SPIRIT".

This socalled CHRIST SPIRIT of yours is the same evil spirit which LED YOU in your post #291 to declare THAT Christ cannot die, therefore did not die for the sins of the world.

Here are your exact words Keypurr from post 291 for everybody on TOL to see where your evil CHRIST SPIRIT has led you:

"Christ is a form of God, he cannot die."

But your HERESY that "Christ cannot die" was discovered Keypurr.

However having been reprimanded and after saying: "I stand corrected" you go right back awhoring with your Christ spirit and say to Genez in your post #306:

" God is a spirit, but he did make an express image of himself. True you can not see it, but it is there. I call it the Christ spirit. God used it to create everything with. With this spirit he reveiled himself to us. Being the exact image of the Father, Christ allowed us to see the personal trates of God."

Keypurr this "Christ spirit" is a figure of your own imagination which you have constructed out of your misunderstanding of the term "the express image of his person" in Hebrews 1:3. Let scripture show you that the "image" you have created which you have named "THE CHRIST SPIRIT" is nothing but vanity.

Of your WICKED CHRIST SPIRIT you say in your post #306 "God used it to create everything with." Keypurr what you are apparently saying here is that your supposed CHRIST SPIRIT was WITH the LORD God and God used it to create everything.

Christ is a spirit. He is the express image of God which is spirit. But that image spirit took the form of man so he could die as a man. That is what you pointed out to me, and I think you are correct. BR tried to tell me that two weeks ago but I questioned it because Jesus had to grow in wisdom. So I assumed that is when he became Christ. We know he got his power at his baptism so it is only logical that is when he became Christ.

Now read Isaiah 44:24 Keypurr:
Isa_44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Now answer these questions Keypurr:
1. According to Isaiah who was it "that maketh all things?"
2. According to Isaiah, was it the LORD " that maketh ALL things?" (Answer yes or no)
3. According to Isaiah, when the LORD spread abroad the heavens, was he "ALONE?" (Answer yes or no)
4. According to Isaiah and to Isaiah only, did the LORD say: "I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself?" (Answer yes or no)
5. Is it true that Isaiah said that: "the LORD maketh all things; stretcheth forth the heavens alone; and spreadeth abroad the earth by himself?" (Answer yes or no)
6. Did Isaiah believe that the LORD God made everything ALONE...BY HIMSELF? (Answer yes or no)

If you answer these 6 questions correctly and admit you were wrong in saying that : "God used it (the Christ spirit) to create everything with" you will begin to understand "the simplicity that is in Christ" Keypurr.

It as Bright Raven tried to tell you Christ is NOT a spirit, neither has there ever been such a thing as a CHRIST SPIRIT, except in your wicked imagination Keypurr.


Read!

Who is the us/we/our in Genesis?
Who is the son by whom he made the worlds (Heb 1:2)?
Who does God say laid the foundation of the world in (Heb1:10)?

Who is this?
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

The Christ Spirit is very alive and well in the NT.
Was the Apostle Paul wrong?

Peace my friend

 

[freelight]

all points of view considered.....

all points of view considered.....

Free,

The subject of this thread by Keypurr is "What is the express image of God?" The answer is very simple that is what the Son of God is to God his Father, our Lord Jesus Christ - he is the express image of the person of God (Heb.1:3).

However Keypurr has confused the argument by his introduction of his own philosophical idea which he calls THE CHRIST SPIRIT. With this invention Keypurr has gone awhoring even denying that Christ died for our sins. His CHRIST SPIRIT has led him astray.

Now if you agree with me that Keypurr was led astray, then kindly assist me in his recovery by honestly answering the 6 questions I asked of him in relation to Isaiah 44:24 which says:


"Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


1. According to Isaiah who was it "that maketh all things?"
2. According to Isaiah, was it the LORD " that maketh ALL things?" (Answer yes or no)
3. According to Isaiah, when the LORD spread abroad the heavens, was he "ALONE?" (Answer yes or no)
4. According to Isaiah and to Isaiah only, did the LORD say: "I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself?" (Answer yes or no)
5. Is it true that Isaiah said that: "the LORD maketh all things; stretcheth forth the heavens alone; and spreadeth abroad the earth by himself?" (Answer yes or no)
6. Did Isaiah believe that the LORD God made everything ALONE...BY HIMSELF? (Answer yes or no)

Read!

Hi Read,

As I've shared,....there is more than one view upon the subject, and that 'God' could use a divine agent or personality to create thru, and it would still be God's creative power and will in action. The historical Unitarian/Trinitarian debates cover this on different levels (see my former post Here).

I see 'God' working thru all creation whether he uses luminaries (divine sons/daughters, cosmic beings, angels, etc.) or not....and Jesus as well has both 'human' and 'divine' elements working in his 'person'. We do too by the way.

How Keypurr chooses to see Jesus in relation to 'God' is a natural reflection of his own perception and understanding, and from a more 'Unitarian' view is just fine, since he loves the God and Father of the Lord Jesus, and recognizes that a divine and holy Spirit was inspiring and animating Jesus during his earthly ministry (call it the 'Spirit of God', 'Spirit of Christ', 'Christ-spirit', 'Holy Spirit' or 'whatever'). The 'debate' is over scriptural interpretations, whether one sees Jesus thru a more 'unitarian' or 'trinitarian' perspective, and what makes most sense to ones own mind.

Again...'God' is the source of all creation, of all movements in the cosmos, and could just as well create or emenate out from His Being .....other beings, divine Sons and angels that have creative power vested in them by God, certain 'agencies' thru which God organizes and coordinates the worlds. There is still only One 'God' and his 'logos'(word) thru which he brings the worlds into existence (in Taoism this is the 'Tao', in Hinduism, the "om (Aum)" as far as a creative principle, energy and power sustaining the universe). If God creates thru a Creator-Son it is still God's work and will being manifested.


pj

 

[keypurr]

Where can I find that keypurr denies that Christ died for our sins? If this is true it is another example of how the denial of Christ's divinity leads to other serious errors.

Keypurr does not deny that Christ dies for our sins. The Christ took the form of a man (Jesus) to die for our sins.
Wile you know me better than that.

 

[freelight]

Adoptionism

Adoptionism

Christ is a spirit. He is the express image of God which is spirit. But that image spirit took the form of man so he could die as a man. That is what you pointed out to me, and I think you are correct. BR tried to tell me that two weeks ago but I questioned it because Jesus had to grow in wisdom. So I assumed that is when he became Christ. We know he got his power at his baptism so it is only logical that is when he became Christ.

Yes, the record says Jesus grew in wisdom, no doubt referring to his human soul as it learned and acquired experience. Most who believe Jesus was adopted or anointed with the power of the Spirit( when the 'Christ' came upon him)....AT his baptism are 'Adoptionists'. This seems to describe your belief.



pj

 

[surrender]

1. God is a spirit, so his image would be a spirit.

Hello, keypurr. I haven’t had the pleasure of speaking with you for a while. I hope you and your family are blessed these days.

My response to #1 is that an image does not necessarily have to be a copy to such a degree that the substance of both the original and the copy are the same. For example, my image in the mirror isn’t made of flesh and bones.

2. This is God's firstborn of every creature, a creation.

The word “firstborn” doesn’t necessarily mean “creature.” For example, ideas are birthed every day.

3. This spirit has deity for it has the fullness of the father.

Those who love God partake in the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). The word “deity” is equivalent to “god.”

4. This spirit was with God before the creation, creation was done through this spirit.

The image may or may not have been a spirit. We don’t really know what the substance of the image was. God created through this image. This image WAS God, because Isaiah 44:24 says that God stretched out the heavens ALONE.

5. This spirit is a form of God

Phil. 2:6 says he was in THE form of God, not that he was in A form of God. This image (not necessarily “spirit”) was THE form of God.

What do YOU think it is?

That’s what I think.

 

[surrender]

No, there is more to it than that. God used Jesus to show who God really is like. You cannot see aspirit but you can see a man. So in this way, God put this spirit into his physical son who was sinless. This spirit is a copy of the father, so if you can see what this spirit is like, you have seen the father.

Peace

If one can't see a spirit, why did Jesus reassure his disciples that they weren't seeing a spirit (Luke 24:37-39)?

 

[keypurr]

Yes, the record says Jesus grew in wisdom, no doubt referring to his human soul as it learned and acquired experience. Most who believe Jesus was adopted or anointed with the power of the Spirit( when the 'Christ' came upon him)....AT his baptism are 'Adoptionists'. This seems to describe your belief.



pj

What bothers me friend is Christ means anointed by God, yet Jesus is called the Christ before his anointing.