ECT Water or No Water?

[turbosixx]

The Apostles stated there is only one baptism.. to teach otherwise is heresy.

So there is no water baptism?

 

[God's Truth]

So there is no water baptism?

You are speaking to a man who does not believe in water baptism, and someone who has not been water baptized. I have debated HisServant and others like him.

We are to get water baptized, and Jesus saves those whose hearts want to obey him.

 

[turbosixx]

We have to get water baptized just like we have to abstain from adultery.

However, water baptism is not the baptism that puts us in Christ.

I would suggest it does in conjunction with the Holy Spirit as Jesus said in Jn. 3:5. If we look at all the conversions, that have any detail, they all end in baptism. I would suggest to you that is what completes the conversion placing us in Christ (by the HS) where we have access to his blood and the forgiveness of sins.

For example, Cornelius after having been baptized with the Holy Spirit, Peter says "47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
The way I understand this, Peter says "can man forbid water" meaning who can stop them from becoming Christians. He commands them to be baptized because that is how Jesus taught him to "make disciples".

Also, baptism is how we die with Christ and are raised a new.
Rom. 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection which agrees with 1 Pt. 3:.... eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[turbosixx]

You are speaking to a man who does not believe in water baptism, and someone who has not been water baptized. I have debated HisServant and others like him.

We are to get water baptized, and Jesus saves those whose hearts want to obey him.

That is exactly why I am trying to stress the importance of water baptism. It has been perverted and is vanishing away.

 

[turbosixx]

The heart that wants to please the Lord is the heart that is saved.

I agree to a point. Would you say the apostle Paul wanted to please God, even when he was persecuting Christians?
Acts 23:1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.

We can have a zeal for God but it must come with knowledge.
Rom. 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[HisServant]

You are speaking to a man who does not believe in water baptism, and someone who has not been water baptized. I have debated HisServant and others like him.

We are to get water baptized, and Jesus saves those whose hearts want to obey him.

And you are a liar..... once again you speak of things you know nothing about.

I was baptized as an infant in a reformed Presbyterian church when I was a baby... and then guilted into getting a 'believers' baptism in a fundamentalist church that I stupidly went to at the age of 39.

After my believers baptism, my ex left me within 6 months.. and my life was a living hell after that for 6 years.

I should have done what I knew was right via the Holy Spirit's leading instead of bending to the peer pressure of idiots.

From what I understand of scripture now.. water baptism was something that had its roots in Judiasm and is not necessary after Pentecost.

So please, quit talking about things you know nothing about.

BTW, your gospel of 'obedience' will only make you end up in hell. I've dealt with people like you before... you are the WORSE kind of so called Christians... a plague upon the land. Your doctrines are based on many many assumptions about the scriptures.. and they know what someone does when the assume things right? You become the southbound end of a northbound mule.

 

[God's Truth]

I would suggest it does in conjunction with the Holy Spirit as Jesus said in Jn. 3:5. If we look at all the conversions, that have any detail, they all end in baptism. I would suggest to you that is what completes the conversion placing us in Christ (by the HS) where we have access to his blood and the forgiveness of sins.

For example, Cornelius after having been baptized with the Holy Spirit, Peter says "47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
The way I understand this, Peter says "can man forbid water" meaning who can stop them from becoming Christians. He commands them to be baptized because that is how Jesus taught him to "make disciples".

Also, baptism is how we die with Christ and are raised a new.
Rom. 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection which agrees with 1 Pt. 3:.... eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Cornelius and his whole household were saved when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit, then they were water baptized.

 

[God's Truth]

I agree to a point.

The Bible says God saves those He accepts, and He accepts those who do right and obey. See Acts 15:8, Acts 10:35, Acts 5:32, and John 14:23.

Would you say the apostle Paul wanted to please God, even when he was persecuting Christians?

We have to find out what pleases the Lord.

Acts 23:1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.

We can have a zeal for God but it must come with knowledge.
Rom. 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

The Jews did not have faith that Jesus' blood cleaned them, they wanted to keep doing their works of righteousness to clean themselves with the ceremonial works that God commanded before to do.

 

[God's Truth]

And you are a liar..... once again you speak of things you know nothing about.

I was baptized as an infant in a reformed Presbyterian church when I was a baby... and then guilted into getting a 'believers' baptism in a fundamentalist church that I stupidly went to at the age of 39.

After my believers baptism, my ex left me within 6 months.. and my life was a living hell after that for 6 years.

I should have done what I knew was right via the Holy Spirit's leading instead of bending to the peer pressure of idiots.

From what I understand of scripture now.. water baptism was something that had its roots in Judiasm and is not necessary after Pentecost.

So please, quit talking about things you know nothing about.

Are you kidding? You just confirmed what I said about you. You just confirmed that you do not believe we are to get water baptized.

BTW, your gospel of 'obedience' will only make you end up in hell.

That is beyond ignorant. God does not put people in hell for being obedient to Jesus.

We eat Jesus' flesh when we obey His powerful Word.

Jesus' words are Spirit and full of life.

We live through Jesus when we obey.

Jesus lives through us when we obey.

When we obey, we are clothed in Christ.

 

[HisServant]

Are you kidding? You just confirmed what I said about you. You just confirmed that you do not believe we are to get water baptized.



That is beyond ignorant. God does not put people in hell for being obedient to Jesus.

We eat Jesus' flesh when we obey His powerful Word.

Jesus' words are Spirit and full of life.

We live through Jesus when we obey.

Jesus lives through us when we obey.

When we obey, we are clothed in Christ.

Even the demons know Jesus is the Christ... just like you.

Once again.. is English your primary language or are you just too lazy to actually read your own posts before you hit the 'Submit Reply' button?

Jesus lives through his elect whether they obey or not. There is absolutely nothing you can gain through obedience except death.

But than again, you seem to be EXTREMELY confused..

We ask you specific questions about what you post time and time again and you refuse to answer.

I demand you apologize for your outright LIE about me... REPENT!

You are speaking to a man who does not believe in water baptism, and someone who has not been water baptized. I have debated HisServant and others like him.

We are to get water baptized, and Jesus saves those whose hearts want to obey him.

You have disobeyed Jesus and borne false witness against me.

Jesus also says that doing the will of his Father is what gets you to heaven... and the will of the Father is only revealed through the Holy Spirit.

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[God's Truth]

Even the demons know Jesus is the Christ... just like you.

Once again.. is English your primary language or are you just too lazy to actually read your own posts before you hit the 'Submit Reply' button?

Jesus lives through his elect whether they obey or not. There is absolutely nothing you can gain through obedience except death.

You should think that out harder. How do you ever get that Jesus is living through sinful actions?

You have disobeyed Jesus and borne false witness against me.

Jesus also says that doing the will of his Father is what gets you to heaven... and the will of the Father is only revealed through the Holy Spirit.

The will of the Father is for us to obey Jesus.

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Jesus does not know them because they would not repent of their sins and stop doing them.

 

[God's Truth]

Turbosixx,

I got it, you want to explain that one baptism scripture. I understand exactly why. If baptism of the Holy Spirit could be a baptism that stopped happening, then clearly the one baptism would be water baptism, for after all, Peter says this baptism that now saves you. However, I hope you give me another chance to explain this more adequately to you. See, Peter explains that the water baptism saves because of the promise to God to die to sins and live to Jesus...that is what water baptism symbolizes, because Jesus saves those who obey him by repenting of our sins and living our lives obeying him. But the way we are put in Him is by being baptized with the Holy Spirit that is when we are saved.

 

[HisServant]

You should think that out harder. How do you ever get that Jesus is living through sinful actions?

The will of the Father is for us to obey Jesus.

Jesus does not know them because they would not repent of their sins and stop doing them.

Stop putting words in Jesus mouth.

That is your problem... Jesus teachings are not good enough for you... so you have to add to them.

Are you going to apologize for bearing false witness about me and saying I wasn't water baptized?

If not, you are disobeying Jesus. I know you wont... because you do not practice what you preach.

 

[God's Truth]

Stop putting words in Jesus mouth.

That is your problem... Jesus teachings are not good enough for you... so you have to add to them.

Are you going to apologize for bearing false witness about me and saying I wasn't water baptized?

If not, you are disobeying Jesus. I know you wont... because you do not practice what you preach.

You spoke against water baptism. As for lying, you keep lying about me constantly.

 

[HisServant]

You spoke against water baptism. As for lying, you keep lying about me constantly.

You bore false witness... obey Jesus.

I am not the one preaching obedience, you are... practice what you preach... or shut up.

 

[God's Truth]

I was baptized as an infant in a reformed Presbyterian church when I was a baby... and then guilted into getting a 'believers' baptism in a fundamentalist church that I stupidly went to at the age of 39.

Your infant baptism was not a biblical baptism, and your 'believers' baptism was not an efficient baptism because you clearly did NOT believe because you only did it out of guilt.

I should have done what I knew was right via the Holy Spirit's leading instead of bending to the peer pressure of idiots.

You call your 'believers' baptism as one where you did it because you were peer pressured by idiots. Surely that is NOT a believers baptism.

From what I understand of scripture now.. water baptism was something that had its roots in Judiasm and is not necessary after Pentecost.

You just admitted again that you do believe in water baptism.

So please, quit talking about things you know nothing about.

Now back off me or it will confirm your instability.

 

[HisServant]

Your infant baptism was not a biblical baptism, and your 'believers' baptism was not an efficient baptism because you clearly did NOT believe because you only did it out of guilt.

How do you know what I felt at the time I was believers baptized... I certainly believed I was doing the right thing at the time. I actually have my baptism on tape somewhere where I gave my testimony right before! I honestly thought I was doing the right thing. It wasn't till much later that I analyzed my behavior and realized that I had compromised by beliefs.

Practice what you preach! You assumed stuff and bore false witness.

Quit dreaming up excuses to not obey Jesus!

And I am not backing off.. you have been exposed to be nothing but a HUGE HYPOCRITE!... and it is my duty as a Christian to expose you as a FALSE teacher...

 

[God's Truth]

How do you know what I felt at the time I was believers baptized...

YOU said you did it out of guilt that is how I know.

Stop derailing this thread and arguing with me personally.

 

[HisServant]

YOU said you did it out of guilt that is how I know.

Stop derailing this thread and arguing with me personally.

You lied and said I was never water baptized without even bothering to find out.... practice what you preach... or shut up.

YOU made it personal by bearing false witness against me.. and apparently you cannot take what you dish out... how juvenile.

 

[turbosixx]

Turbosixx,

I got it, you want to explain that one baptism scripture. I understand exactly why. If baptism of the Holy Spirit could be a baptism that stopped happening, then clearly the one baptism would be water baptism, for after all, Peter says this baptism that now saves you. However, I hope you give me another chance to explain this more adequately to you. See, Peter explains that the water baptism saves because of the promise to God to die to sins and live to Jesus...that is what water baptism symbolizes, because Jesus saves those who obey him by repenting of our sins and living our lives obeying him. But the way we are put in Him is by being baptized with the Holy Spirit that is when we are saved.

"See, Peter explains that the water baptism saves because of the promise to God to die to sins and live to Jesus..."

Please show me where Peter explains this. Do you see it in 1 Pt. 3 or somewhere else?