ECT Water or No Water?

[God's Truth]

You lied and said I was never water baptized without even bothering to find out.... practice what you preach... or shut up.

YOU made it personal by bearing false witness against me.. and apparently you cannot take what you dish out... how juvenile.

You were never water baptized the way you were supposed to be water baptized. You speak against water baptism.

 

[God's Truth]

"See, Peter explains that the water baptism saves because of the promise to God to die to sins and live to Jesus..."

Please show me where Peter explains this. Do you see it in 1 Pt. 3 or somewhere else?

Read 1 Corinthians 10.

Study these scriptures.

Romans 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

 

[God's Truth]

Water baptism is about a promise to God that you will die to the sins of the world and live trying to please Jesus.

 

[turbosixx]

Hi , and what many and all Acts 2 escapes them is that The BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit was a PROMISE from the Father in Luke 24:49 and in Acts 1:4 and was only given to Israel !!

Anyone that reads Acts 10 and the Cornelius we see that The Promise to Cornelius is coupled with WATER BAPTISM , in Acts 10:47 !!

Is this how we are saved ??

Is this the Body of Christ , most CERTAINLY NO !!:hammer::hammer:

DAN P

In your understanding, how are we saved if not by water and the spirit?

 

[HisServant]

You were never water baptized the way you were supposed to be water baptized. You speak against water baptism.

And you would be telling lies about me again.

Get thee behind me Satan!

 

[HisServant]

Water baptism is about a promise to God that you will die to the sins of the world and live trying to please Jesus.

Oaths... which are promises, come from the evil one according to Jesus!

33“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

 

[turbosixx]

Read 1 Corinthians 10.

Study these scriptures.

Romans 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Ok, now I understand what you are saying and I agree. I would like to suggest this, that baptism does not symbolize anything but is the very thing. For example, Peter says the flood water saved 8 people and that water symbolized the water of baptism that saves.
eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also

Romans 6 says 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death. Baptism doesn't symbolize being buried with Christ, it's how we are buried with him.
Col. 2:11.....you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism,

As you have said and I agree, by obeying Christ by being baptized we receive the Holy Spirit. Just as Namaan in 2 Kings obeyed God ans was cleansed of leprosy by dipping seven times. The water didn't cleanse him but his obedience.

Baptism is how we are added to Christ. Gal. 3:27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

 

[HisServant]

Ok, now I understand what you are saying and I agree. I would like to suggest this, that baptism does not symbolize anything but is the very thing. For example, Peter says the flood water saved 8 people and that water symbolized the water of baptism that saves.
eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also

Romans 6 says 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death. Baptism doesn't symbolize being buried with Christ, it's how we are buried with him.
Col. 2:11.....you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism,

As you have said and I agree, by obeying Christ by being baptized we receive the Holy Spirit. Just as Namaan in 2 Kings obeyed God ans was cleansed of leprosy by dipping seven times. The water didn't cleanse him but his obedience.

Baptism is how we are added to Christ. Gal. 3:27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Scripture is full of people who received the Holy Spirit before baptism, so your logic of obedience falls on its face.

Nothing you can do can merit God's favor...

 

[turbosixx]

Scripture is full of people who received the Holy Spirit before baptism, so your logic of obedience falls on its face.

Would you say receiving the Holy Spirit before baptism is the norm? Will you point me to one of these situations.

 

[turbosixx]

Nothing you can do can merit God's favor...

So if someone chooses not to be baptized, will they be in God's favor?

 

[Danoh]

Ok, now I understand what you are saying and I agree. I would like to suggest this, that baptism does not symbolize anything but is the very thing. For example, Peter says the flood water saved 8 people and that water symbolized the water of baptism that saves.
eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also

Romans 6 says 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death. Baptism doesn't symbolize being buried with Christ, it's how we are buried with him.
Col. 2:11.....you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism,

As you have said and I agree, by obeying Christ by being baptized we receive the Holy Spirit. Just as Namaan in 2 Kings obeyed God ans was cleansed of leprosy by dipping seven times. The water didn't cleanse him but his obedience.

Baptism is how we are added to Christ. Gal. 3:27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

You are reading the two baptisms described as one and the same.

And anyway, baptism is the issue of identifying the thing being baptized with what it is being baptized unto. It is the issue of identifying a thing as one in identity with what it has been baptized unto.

Study how the passages use the word. How passages use a word where they do, when, as to what, and in relation to who, is their built in "dictionary."

We're talking Scripture's own sense of Iself, of its own place, time, setting, etc., 1 Cor. 2; Heb. 1:1; 2 Tim. 3:16-17, etc.

 

[DAN P]

In your understanding, how are we saved if not by water and the spirit?

Hi and we are saved by Grace as referenced in Eph 2:8 and Rom 10:9 and Acts 16:14 !!

#1 , Acts 16:14 , God opens the Heart to believe !

#2 , In Eph 2:8 God gives the gift of Faith !

#3 , Then Rom 10:9 completes it !

There is only ONE BAPTISM / BAPTISMA which means there is only one doing the act of BAPTISMA / PLACING all into the Body of Christ 1 Cor 12:13 !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Ok, now I understand what you are saying and I agree. I would like to suggest this, that baptism does not symbolize anything but is the very thing. For example, Peter says the flood water saved 8 people and that water symbolized the water of baptism that saves.

Hi , and in reading what Peter wrote , those in the ARK where saved with out WATER and the one that received WATER all DROWNED !!

DAN P

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and we are saved by Grace as referenced in Eph 2:8 and Rom 10:9 and Acts 16:14 !!

#1 , Acts 16:14 , God opens the Heart to believe !

#2 , In Eph 2:8 God gives the gift of Faith !

#3 , Then Rom 10:9 completes it !

There is only ONE BAPTISM / BAPTISMA which means there is only one doing the act of BAPTISMA / PLACING all into the Body of Christ 1 Cor 12:13 !!

dan p

That's a complicated way of putting it together. Yes, God's opens our hearts, we are saved by faith and receive grace, but is that our response to the gospel? Jesus states it simply. Since Jesus is the one doing the saving, why not use what he said?

Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

In Acts 16 you cited, Lydia was baptized which agrees with what Jesus said, "believed and has been baptized will be saved".

It's simple, why make it more complicated.

 

[turbosixx]

Hi , and in reading what Peter wrote , those in the ARK where saved with out WATER and the one that received WATER all DROWNED !!

DAN P

Is that really Peters point, that we are saved without water? If so, why even mention water.

during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

His point is we have to go through the water to be saved.

 

[HisServant]

Would you say receiving the Holy Spirit before baptism is the norm? Will you point me to one of these situations.

I don't think there is any 'norm'... God does as he pleases.

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tonguesb and praising God.

I think its dangerous to teach that man can do certain 'religious' thinks to earn God favor.

Talking care of the poor, widows and orphans would seem to be much more important to Jesus than water baptism.

 

[turbosixx]

You are reading the two baptisms described as one and the same.

And anyway, baptism is the issue of identifying the thing being baptized with what it is being baptized unto. It is the issue of identifying a thing as one in identity with what it has been baptized unto.

Study how the passages use the word. How passages use a word where they do, when, as to what, and in relation to who, is their built in "dictionary."

We're talking Scripture's own sense of Iself, of its own place, time, setting, etc., 1 Cor. 2; Heb. 1:1; 2 Tim. 3:16-17, etc.

I only see one baptism, and it's water. Yes, John spoke of "baptism of the Holy Spirit" but that was special and we only see it two times in scripture and both were special situations, the apostles and the first Gentile convert. "Baptism with the Holy Spirit" is receiving spiritual gifts such as knowledge, healing, tongues, ect.. If everyone is "baptized with the Holy Spirit" shouldn't we see it every time?

The thousands of other converts did not receive "baptism of the Holy Spirit". They received the Holy Spirit but were not "baptized with the Holy Spirit" For example,

Acts 8:16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,

 

[HisServant]

So if someone chooses not to be baptized, will they be in God's favor?

Depends if they are going against the Holy Spirit inside of them.

We are to live life in the spirit... not to live a life according to the rules that men have dreamed up via their personal interpretations of scripture.

The more time I spend dealing with people who proclaim water baptism... not just it, but other things they proclaim... the more I am sure of them being in error. The are all about works salvation, but wont admit it.

 

[turbosixx]

I don't think there is any 'norm'... God does as he pleases.

You said scripture was "full" of people receiving the Holy Spirit before baptism. I only know of three and all were special situations.

I think its dangerous to teach that man can do certain 'religious' thinks to earn God favor.

Talking care of the poor, widows and orphans would seem to be much more important to Jesus than water baptism.

I agree, such as the catholics who instruct to do things not found in scripture, but if we are instructed through scripture shouldn't we do those things.

 

[turbosixx]

Depends if they are going against the Holy Spirit inside of them.

We are to live life in the spirit... not to live a life according to the rules that men have dreamed up via their personal interpretations of scripture.

The more time I spend dealing with people who proclaim water baptism... not just it, but other things they proclaim... the more I am sure of them being in error. The are all about works salvation, but wont admit it.

I see just the opposite. Those who proclaim there is nothing we can do the more I'm convinced they are in error. They say things that are in direct contradiction to scripture, for example:

"not by faith alone"
"by faith alone"

"baptism can't save you"
"baptism now saves you"

"believes and is baptized will be saved"
"believes will be saved"

One is a direct quote from scripture, the other is not. Which one do you believe to be true?

That is how Satan deceives, makes a small change.

God: "thou shalt surely die." Gen. 2:17
Satan: "Ye shall not surely die" Gen. 3:4