Water Baptism passed away in this dispensation

Minerva

New member
Ephesians 4:4-6 (King James Version)
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.



1 Corinthians 12:13 (King James Version)
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


What do you think the one baptism is referring to? I think it is a baptism of the Spirit into the Body. "as this seems more important than water baptism, and the other things in the Ephesians list are all invisible things, as is baptism by the Spirit."

Ephesians says there is one baptism.

Baptism by the Holy Spirit and water baptism are two baptisms.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I have answered this several times.

The Bible also says in the verse that there is one Lord. Does that mean that only the Father is Lord and that Jesus and the Spirit are not Lord (they are called Lord elsewhere)?

There are better interpretations than Mid-Acts proof texting. Check a commentary for possible alternatives. I find no contradiction since Spirit and water baptism are different based on all relevant verses, not just one proof text.
 

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
As Minerva pointed out the one baptism for today is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not water.

Before the Body of Christ started with Paul's ministry we see that water baptism was necessary for salvation.

Even today, some churches believe you have to be water baptized to be saved. Their favorite passages are Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Mark 16:15-18 Christ said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

Others say you don’t have to be water baptized to be saved, but if you become a believer, you should follow the Lord in water baptism as an outward sign of an inner work. Their passage is Acts 16:31. They say this shows that the only thing a person must do to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Others show that water baptism was even necessary in the epistles. They show us 1 Peter 3:20,21, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine long-suffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Others shows us Ephesians 2:8,9. “It is not of works”. They say “Baptism would be a work. Baptism should come after you’re saved, but it doesn’t save you!”

What should we believe? When we look at the Scriptures, the gospel starts with the ministry of John the Baptist. His message was, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mat 3:2)! He preached “the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins” (Mark 1:3). He preached that a person had to be baptized to be saved!

But, to whom was John the Baptist sent? It says in John 1:31 that John was sent to Israel: “I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”

John came to Israel to show them that Jesus was the Messiah or Christ. It was at a time when God was only dealing with the Jews. The method of salvation was repent and be baptized for your sins. This was the message of the kingdom gospel. Luke 16:16 shows when the kingdom gospel started: “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.” Was that gospel for us?

Did Christ and the apostles preach the same gospel that John preached? Yes, for it says that they did in Matthew 10:5-10 and Mark 1:14,15. Baptism was linked with the message of the kingdom promised to David, Israel.

When John began his ministry there was only one baptism, water.

It was necessary for salvation! Yes. We even find Jesus saying to Nicodemus in John 3:5 that if a man wants to enter into the kingdom of God, he must be born of water and of the Spirit.

This requirement of water baptism fit the context of John’s message.

John began baptizing, and the apostles continued it after the resurrection and the day of Pentecost.

Christ commanded the Eleven in Mark 16:15,16, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”

Peter insisted on the same requirement ten days later on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38. “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Here we see that water baptism was necessary before Holy Spirit baptism would take place.

Now, for the first time, there were two baptisms.
Water baptism was necessary for salvation.
Then, Holy Spirit baptism would take place.
From the context of verses 22 and 39 we see that this happened while God was still dealing with Israel.

These are all requirements that Christ gave them.

Water baptism was essential for salvation at that time.

In Christ,
Bob Hill
 

bling

Member
Bob said: (along with a lot of other stuff)
As Minerva pointed out the one baptism for today is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not water.
I would argue that the one baptism Paul addresses in Eph. 4:5 is the one baptism that the Ephesians would be immanently familiar with. The one baptism the Jewish Christian and Gentile Christians would have experienced and that was water baptism. Water baptism is referred to by Christ as not being a physical birth, but a Spiritual birth John 3:5. Water baptism is an act of worship so it must be in Spirit and truth John 4:23. Holy Spirit baptism was unusual and happened only a few times, in acts 11 when Peter refers to the Holy Spirit baptism promised by John and the prophets that occurred in Acts 10, he has to go back to the experience of Acts 2 (nothing more resent). Holy Spirit baptism always included speaking in tongues and/or miraculous gifts of the Spirit and we know from Acts 8 that baptized people did not receive these miraculous gifts until the apostles lad hands on them, so most people where not receiving the mighty Holy Spirit baptism. To fulfill the prophecy all Christians do not have to experience Holy Spirit baptism. The Ephesians could have heard about Holy Spirit baptism and baptism of Fire, but both of those would not have been experienced by them at that time.
There is a very important portion of the Spirit that can be received at baptism and that is the indwelling portion we all need and must have Rm. 8:11 and was promised in Acts 2: 38.
 

thelaqachisnext

BANNED
Banned
I agree that there is no good reason to disobey any of God's commandments, but baptism is still not a condition of salvation.

No one can be saved by being water baptized, but if one claims to be born again in Christ and continues to dwell in the old man body [rather than departing the body for heaven and leaving the old man body behind without time to obey Jesus -as a death bed conversion, for instance]- but refuses to obey Jesus commands, then that one is not saved, but is a false brother; a dissembler; a cloud without water; one who takes Jesus' name in their mouth falsely and blasphemes His doctrine by their disobedience to God.
 

thelaqachisnext

BANNED
Banned
...
Before the Body of Christ started with Paul's ministry we see that water baptism was necessary for salvation.
Water baptism was essential for salvation at that time.

In Christ,
Bob Hill


Water baptism was never essential for salvation, if so, Jesus did not have to die!
Get that? -If water baptism was essential for salvation Jesus did not have to die!


How come no human being "ascended" to heaven [as Son of God, to take the dominion that Adam lost] or was made one with the Father before Jesus rose from the dead, and led captivity captive?

How come before Jesus 'ascended' no man had ascended, and how come that when He ascended, "leading captivity captive", He led all the righteous souls out of Sheol who waited there before His Atonement, for His Day [which Abraham saw, in Genesis 22, and rejoiced in] which Day made an end of spiritual death [for whosoever will]? and how come all the spirits of born again, just souls are now in Zion above [since Jesus ascension] "made perfect" [born again in Spirit], where Jesus is seated and ascended to, as the Firstborn of earth and received the Glory as the Firstborn of the Father o'er the dominion Adam lost?

And how come Paul the Apostle says Jewish believers were "in Christ" before he was -if MAD had a leg to stand on [and it does not] Paul the Apostle would not have spoken of those Believers as being "in Christ" before him: but they were "in Christ" by the second birth long before Paul was joined to the One Living Spirit by the second birth of Spirit when he was called "last of all the apostles"

Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

How come Jesus gave one of the seventy disciples which He appointed -to witness His ministry and life- to be Paul's co-worker, and co-called him to go to the Gentiles with the One Gospel?
Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
If MAD had any truth in itself, then Paul the Apostle would not have had Barnabus, a noted one of the seventy, a brother of Mary [who was at the tomb and saw Jesus after He rose, before He ascended], appointed by Jesus as a traveling co-worker in the One Gospel.
-and there is so much more for the true Berean hearted souls to see in the Word which proves that MAD doctrine is a dissembling doctrine.


Jesus commanded water baptism after He rose from the dead -for all Beleivers to the end of the Church age. -Get that? -Jesus commanded water baptism after He shared Passover Supper with His twelve Apostles, after He rose from the dead, for all Believers.

There is no such thing as a different doctrine by the Word and command of God that annuls water baptism as a command for all "in Christ".
After they are joined "in Christ", by the Spirit of adoption, then they are commanded to obey God by being baptized in water.....for the old man they are still wearing, in the hope of the resurrection of the same in the image of the New
Man.....Water baptism is for the body of flesh, which is to rise in Christ in the resurrection of the body.
That is our hope, and that is why we obey Jesus our LORD, who is God in flesh.

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
 

Servo

Formerly Shimei!
LIFETIME MEMBER


Water baptism was never essential for salvation, if so, Jesus did not have to die!
Get that? -If water baptism was essential for salvation Jesus did not have to die!


How come no human being "ascended" to heaven [as Son of God, to take the dominion that Adam lost] or was made one with the Father before Jesus rose from the dead, and led captivity captive?

How come before Jesus 'ascended' no man had ascended, and how come that when He ascended, "leading captivity captive", He led all the righteous souls out of Sheol who waited there before His Atonement, for His Day [which Abraham saw, in Genesis 22, and rejoiced in] which Day made an end of spiritual death [for whosoever will]? and how come all the spirits of born again, just souls are now in Zion above [since Jesus ascension] "made perfect" [born again in Spirit], where Jesus is seated and ascended to, as the Firstborn of earth and received the Glory as the Firstborn of the Father o'er the dominion Adam lost?

And how come Paul the Apostle says Jewish believers were "in Christ" before he was -if MAD had a leg to stand on [and it does not] Paul the Apostle would not have spoken of those Believers as being "in Christ" before him: but they were "in Christ" by the second birth long before Paul was joined to the One Living Spirit by the second birth of Spirit when he was called "last of all the apostles"



How come Jesus gave one of the seventy disciples which He appointed -to witness His ministry and life- to be Paul's co-worker, and co-called him to go to the Gentiles with the One Gospel?
Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
If MAD had any truth in itself, then Paul the Apostle would not have had Barnabus, a noted one of the seventy, a brother of Mary [who was at the tomb and saw Jesus after He rose, before He ascended], appointed by Jesus as a traveling co-worker in the One Gospel.
-and there is so much more for the true Berean hearted souls to see in the Word which proves that MAD doctrine is a dissembling doctrine.


Jesus commanded water baptism after He rose from the dead -for all Beleivers to the end of the Church age. -Get that? -Jesus commanded water baptism after He shared Passover Supper with His twelve Apostles, after He rose from the dead, for all Believers.

There is no such thing as a different doctrine by the Word and command of God that annuls water baptism as a command for all "in Christ".
After they are joined "in Christ", by the Spirit of adoption, then they are commanded to obey God by being baptized in water.....for the old man they are still wearing, in the hope of the resurrection of the same in the image of the New
Man.....Water baptism is for the body of flesh, which is to rise in Christ in the resurrection of the body.
That is our hope, and that is why we obey Jesus our LORD, who is God in flesh.

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

In the year 2001 a certain man repented for his sins and accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior. The man died a year later and he had NEVER been baptized with water. In you opinion, is that man in Heaven with the Lord?

Yes or NO??????
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
In the year 2001 a certain man repented for his sins and accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior. The man died a year later and he had NEVER been baptized with water. In you opinion, is that man in Heaven with the Lord?

Yes or NO??????


Obliviously, yuppers. Laq's answer will reveal orthodoxy or heterodoxy on this view...start the clock...
 

thelaqachisnext

BANNED
Banned
In the year 2001 a certain man repented for his sins and accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior. The man died a year later and he had NEVER been baptized with water. In you opinion, is that man in Heaven with the Lord?

Yes or NO??????

Sorry, but I don't know the man and cannot say if Jesus knew Him. Your saying so does not make it so, but what Jesus says to the man counts, and Jesus, as God, commands water baptism for those who hear and believe the Gospel.

As you have a different gospel, called MAD, which is not in Scripture, then I would wonder if the man had ever heard the Gospel of Christ, as is recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; with Matthew and John being two of the twelve foundation Apostles for the One Church, which is built upon the Chief cornerstone, the One New Man, who is YHWH the Word of God, come in human flesh of the second creation to build the "temple" for the Father's Glory to indwell, of human beings adopted out of dead in spirit Adam, into His New Man Name -which name is "Israel", so named by the Father [Isaiah 49], who is the Only Begotten Son of the Father as to humanity, and only Living Son of God as to humanity, and the Elect Son, as to the inheritance of the earth and of the heavenlies of the earth's spiritual dominion.

Willfull rebellion -not ignorance [which Paul the Apostle of Scripture was guilty of and blasphemed in ignorance, he said]- is spiritual death for anyone claiming to be twice born. If twice born, in spirit [once in Adam and once in Christ] then they make themselves twice dead -both NT terms, with the "twice dead" found in Jude.

But I do know what Jesus said about those who do not obey Him, who claim to know Him, but are, in fact, "lawless", willfully.

Born again in Spirit people who have the authority to cast out devils in Jesus' name [for no one can use His name if they have not received the authority by the Spirit to do so, to cast out demons] and those who do many wonderful works in His name -by His authority of power because they received His Spirit to use His name and power- will be twice dead for "lawlessness", which is called iniquity by the KJ translators.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

iniquity: 1) the condition of without law
a) because ignorant of it
b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

you claim your straw man was saved, but if He did not build His house upon the Rock of the Words of Christ and obedience to the One whom you claimed he named as Savior, then you have no authority to get the man into heaven for his rebellion -and you have no way to undo Christ's Words and commands and get into heaven yourself.

Thanks for the neg reps, showing me that you, as the MAD board members do, use the neg as a computer game you play to zap posters, especially, whom you cannot reply to, by using Scripture to refute Scripture, which I do use to refute MAD.

BTW: to be twice dead is to get your name blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life, after being born the second time in the One Living Spirit of the New Man; which second birth is offered by the Light that lights every man that comes into the world to all human beings born in Adam, who were written in His Book from the foundation of the world.
Dead in Adam and dead in the Spirit of the New Man is to be a reprobate and to suffer the second death, hopelessly, forever, which is called the lake of fire.

Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked
up by the roots;
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
An easier question would be what if a person repents and receives Christ before they are executed by a firing squad with no opportunity to be baptized? What if they receive Christ (Jn. 1:12; 3:16) as a preacher shares the gospel before a dying cancer patient slips into eternity?

If the thief on the cross could be saved before the resurrection without baptism, how much more after His blood was shed. Salvation is based on grace and the blood of Christ (appropriated by faith), not chlorinated water externally making someone's clothes wet. Cmon.
 

Servo

Formerly Shimei!
LIFETIME MEMBER

Sorry, but I don't know the man and cannot say if Jesus knew Him. Your saying so does not make it so, but what Jesus says to the man counts, and Jesus, as God, commands water baptism for those who hear and believe the Gospel.

As you have a different gospel, called MAD, which is not in Scripture, then I would wonder if the man had ever heard the Gospel of Christ, as is recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; with Matthew and John being two of the twelve foundation Apostles for the One Church, which is built upon the Chief cornerstone, the One New Man, who is YHWH the Word of God, come in human flesh of the second creation to build the "temple" for the Father's Glory to indwell, of human beings adopted out of dead in spirit Adam, into His New Man Name -which name is "Israel", so named by the Father [Isaiah 49], who is the Only Begotten Son of the Father as to humanity, and only Living Son of God as to humanity, and the Elect Son, as to the inheritance of the earth and of the heavenlies of the earth's spiritual dominion.

Willfull rebellion -not ignorance [which Paul the Apostle of Scripture was guilty of and blasphemed in ignorance, he said]- is spiritual death for anyone claiming to be twice born. If twice born, in spirit [once in Adam and once in Christ] then they make themselves twice dead -both NT terms, with the "twice dead" found in Jude.

But I do know what Jesus said about those who do not obey Him, who claim to know Him, but are, in fact, "lawless", willfully.

Born again in Spirit people who have the authority to cast out devils in Jesus' name [for no one can use His name if they have not received the authority by the Spirit to do so, to cast out demons] and those who do many wonderful works in His name -by His authority of power because they received His Spirit to use His name and power- will be twice dead for "lawlessness", which is called iniquity by the KJ translators.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

iniquity: 1) the condition of without law
a) because ignorant of it
b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

you claim your straw man was saved, but if He did not build His house upon the Rock of the Words of Christ and obedience to the One whom you claimed he named as Savior, then you have no authority to get the man into heaven for his rebellion -and you have no way to undo Christ's Words and commands and get into heaven yourself.

Thanks for the neg reps, showing me that you, as the MAD board members do, use the neg as a computer game you play to zap posters, especially, whom you cannot reply to, by using Scripture to refute Scripture, which I do use to refute MAD.

BTW: to be twice dead is to get your name blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life, after being born the second time in the One Living Spirit of the New Man; which second birth is offered by the Light that lights every man that comes into the world to all human beings born in Adam, who were written in His Book from the foundation of the world.
Dead in Adam and dead in the Spirit of the New Man is to be a reprobate and to suffer the second death, hopelessly, forever, which is called the lake of fire.

Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked
up by the roots;

Forget about MAD for one second if that is possible...

A man who has repented and asked for forgiveness and has accepted the Lord as his Savior, a Christian! You can not say if he is in Heaven or not after he dies? True? You can not say for sure, is that true???

It is obvious why you won't answer my previous question. You can write another book and spout out all your same old material, but you can not answer a simple question.

Why did you come to this web site to share with us all your "knowledge" but you in turn you can't answer a simple question? Is it because you pretend to not know the answer? No, it is because it destroys your argument.
 

bling

Member
Forget about MAD for one second if that is possible...

A man who has repented and asked for forgiveness and has accepted the Lord as his Savior, a Christian! You can not say if he is in Heaven or not after he dies? True? You can not say for sure, is that true???

It is obvious why you won't answer my previous question. You can write another book and spout out all your same old material, but you can not answer a simple question.

Why did you come to this web site to share with us all your "knowledge" but you in turn you can't answer a simple question? Is it because you pretend to not know the answer? No, it is because it destroys your argument.
It does not destroy the argument if we say, God saves who ever and when ever He wants to. God took the earthly life away from that man at that time either to be with Him to reap eternal life or to reap destruction. It sounds to me, this individual has sown some good seed after the Spirit, so if he has not quit sowing after the Spirit and gone back to sowing after the Flesh then he has a harvest. Gal. 6: 7-10. If baptism is a “doing good” Gal. 6:9 then this man needs not to grow weary before being baptized.
 

thelaqachisnext

BANNED
Banned
Forget about MAD for one second if that is possible...

A man who has repented and asked for forgiveness and has accepted the Lord as his Savior, a Christian! You can not say if he is in Heaven or not after he dies? True? You can not say for sure, is that true???

It is obvious why you won't answer my previous question. You can write another book and spout out all your same old material, but you can not answer a simple question.

Why did you come to this web site to share with us all your "knowledge" but you in turn you can't answer a simple question? Is it because you pretend to not know the answer? No, it is because it destroys your argument.

You are asking me to redundantly reply to that which I have already answered many times, even on this thread, by using Jesus' Christ's own written words, and not my own.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Jesus said the words He has spoken will be your judge: why isn't that good enough for you? Why do you want to dissemble His doctrine, claiming to know Him, but denying His Words? -and Jesus said His words were not His own, but the Father's, so why do you reject the Father's Words?


Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
You want me to give you my opinion for you to argue against, but you do not care what Jesus has stated clearly, by the Father's command, which is against your own doctrine.
As a Believer who is in Christ by the second birth I have no authority to go against the Scripture, only the duty to obey Christ, and so do you have that duty if you claim His name, otherwise, you are blaspheming His name to deny His Words.

I explained why I returned to this site to post against the false doctrine called MAD when I recently returned, which site I took at face value when I first discovered it, believing in simplicity that the board was truly a "Theos' Word" forum; but I discovered that it is here not to promote "Theos' Word" but to promote MAD doctrine, as "C-" so ungraciously stated to me before I left; which doctrine I had never heard of before coming to this board, when I first came in good faith as a born again Believer in Christ.

I went away and learned about it, and what I learned is indeed distressing and puts it in the same camp as all who deny the words of Jesus Christ while accepting man-made contradictions to Jesus' Words, and as long as I am able -or want to- I will point out the false doctrines of MAD, and Watchtower, and of any who deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ as once delivered to the Saints, which Gospel is related to all the world in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and is not a gnostic secret mystery religion only revealed to the initiated societies by wrestings of Scripture in twisted tortuous doctrines of unwashed men.
 

glassman

New member
God exist in a Spiritual realm and created an earthly realm for mankind yet we are of His essence. Our bodies were fashioned from dust of the earth which in the end will return to dust (Ecc 12:7 Isa 40:5-8) but our spirit which is of God our Father is eternal .

Water sustains life in the earthly realm but it is God’s Spirit or word that sustains us because our true essence is from Him. Our bodies are nothing more than earthen vessels in which we reside and how we perceive ourselves and needs in the flesh has absolutely no effect on our Spiritual existence.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

God taught man with temporal earthly examples which were mere shadows of Spiritual things to come such as circumcision and baptism.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 2 Cor. 5:16
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17

All we receive Spiritually is found in Christ because our fleshly body contaminated with sin is not acceptable to God. Being place in Christ all of His righteous acts are credited to us for we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones (Eph 5:30). This includes obeying the law, water baptism, circumcision and dieing a sinless death for sin.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Temporal things have been replaced with eternal things of God in Christ. All that God requires is freely given in Christ so that no man may boast but those who live by their natural senses cannot accept that God operates Spiritually within a realm not seen with the eyes.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

God now communicates with us Spiritually with a spiritual message to our spirit.
We must responded spiritually not with outward displays of righteousness such as water
baptism.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The spiritual message of baptism given by Christ is in keeping with the above verse.
His words received by faith would profit eternal life without a bodily response.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt. 28:19 (KJV)

It is clear the apostles are being instructed to teach and the teaching of the word will baptize them. The word is spirit and it is by this word we are baptized.

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15 (KJV)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16 (KJV)

Again, the teaching but also when one believes the words of salvation they are baptized by that word. The quickening of the spirit (baptism) is immediate when the words of the new testament ( Matt 26:28) are believed.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, Eph. 5:26 (KJV)
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Eph. 5:27 (KJV)

It is clearly stated that Christ washes with the word.

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Pet. 1:23 (KJV)

The gospel for us today was revealed by Christ and progressively understood by the apostles. The message was fulfilled through Paul by the Spirit.

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

The one hope of our calling is by one baptism by one Spirit through only faith so that we may be perfect in Christ.

Let the wolves rush in!
 

jeremiah

BANNED
Banned
Putting aside the theory that Water Baptism was a dispensational command from Jesus, that passed away at the new dispensation of Paul from Jesus; What is so difficult about keeping that command? Most people who think that any "work" that is done by a Christian in connection with their salvation makes it seem as though the requirement is a "heavy" burden?

The heavy burdens that tie men down, are the commands of men. The pharisees added to the Law of Moses, so many rules, that no one could keep them. This is what and why, Peter and the other disciples, who had lived under these rules all of their lives, did not want the Gentiles to come under that same bondage.

It is the simple, Godly commands that all should follow. Baptism, the laying on of hands, the elementary principles of God.

People who teach that believers do not need to, and "should not" get baptized, are taking away from the very words of God Himself.

People who are afraid to teach, "if you Love Me, then keep my commandments"
have missed the purpose of salvation. That purpose is to be conformed into the image of God the Son, through obediance, born out of loving God, with your whole heart and soul and strength, and loving your neighbor as yourself.

Salvation does not end with one's conversion, it begins with it. The very next step in salvation, is obediance through the command to be baptized. Then there is a lifetime of learning and following. It is an "art" to be able to obey His commands.Sometimes, we have to break the "lesser" of two, when both can not be kept at the same time.

The examples Jesus gave were healing "people" on the Sabbath. This was greater than keeping the Sabbath, since even the Pharisees had "compassion" on their own animals, on the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

Also, even the priest fed a starving David and His men, by breaking the command concerning the Temple grainery. Because "preserving life" is a greater command than the grain, that belongs to God's priests.

Likewise God blessed the Hebrew midwives who lied, and it is OK to lie if you were hiding Jews in your basement, or, if today, a child in your womb.

I see no conflict with any command of God or man, that would prevent one from being Baptized, in this country. I do not see calling it a work, or saying it was done away with by God Himself, as anything other than a man made "dispensation of grace." Maybe the sinner's prayer is a "work" by that high standard?

The true dispensation of grace started with the Resurrection, and was retroactive upon all those who had faith in God throughout the previous milenium. It will end at the second Coming of Jesus, when He returns as Judge, and to rule and reign.

I think the exchange between Phillip and the Ethiopian eunuch [A Gentile] says it all. What prevents me from being baptized in this water? ; Nothing, as long as you believe, with all your heart.

To Bob Hill and others: Since you so "obviously" believe, with all your heart, that Jesus is the Son of God and the Salvation of God; What is preventing you from being baptized in His name, other than your own ................... You fill in the blank!
 

glassman

New member
Putting aside the theory that Water Baptism was a dispensational command from Jesus, that passed away at the new dispensation of Paul from Jesus; What is so difficult about keeping that command? Most people who think that any "work" that is done by a Christian in connection with their salvation makes it seem as though the requirement is a "heavy" burden?

The heavy burdens that tie men down, are the commands of men. The pharisees added to the Law of Moses, so many rules, that no one could keep them. This is what and why, Peter and the other disciples, who had lived under these rules all of their lives, did not want the Gentiles to come under that same bondage.

It is the simple, Godly commands that all should follow. Baptism, the laying on of hands, the elementary principles of God.

People who teach that believers do not need to, and "should not" get baptized, are taking away from the very words of God Himself.

People who are afraid to teach, "if you Love Me, then keep my commandments"
have missed the purpose of salvation. That purpose is to be conformed into the image of God the Son, through obediance, born out of loving God, with your whole heart and soul and strength, and loving your neighbor as yourself.

Salvation does not end with one's conversion, it begins with it. The very next step in salvation, is obediance through the command to be baptized. Then there is a lifetime of learning and following. It is an "art" to be able to obey His commands.Sometimes, we have to break the "lesser" of two, when both can not be kept at the same time.

The examples Jesus gave were healing "people" on the Sabbath. This was greater than keeping the Sabbath, since even the Pharisees had "compassion" on their own animals, on the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

Also, even the priest fed a starving David and His men, by breaking the command concerning the Temple grainery. Because "preserving life" is a greater command than the grain, that belongs to God's priests.

Likewise God blessed the Hebrew midwives who lied, and it is OK to lie if you were hiding Jews in your basement, or, if today, a child in your womb.

I see no conflict with any command of God or man, that would prevent one from being Baptized, in this country. I do not see calling it a work, or saying it was done away with by God Himself, as anything other than a man made "dispensation of grace." Maybe the sinner's prayer is a "work" by that high standard?

The true dispensation of grace started with the Resurrection, and was retroactive upon all those who had faith in God throughout the previous milenium. It will end at the second Coming of Jesus, when He returns as Judge, and to rule and reign.

I think the exchange between Phillip and the Ethiopian eunuch [A Gentile] says it all. What prevents me from being baptized in this water? ; Nothing, as long as you believe, with all your heart.

To Bob Hill and others: Since you so "obviously" believe, with all your heart, that Jesus is the Son of God and the Salvation of God; What is preventing you from being baptized in His name, other than your own ................... You fill in the blank!

I have been baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost by the Spirit. Water is nothing more than an element which is not needed.

The ritual of water baptism was a visual representation of that which was to come.

It preceded receiving the Holy Ghost at Pentecost.

Today it is a ritual glorification of the flesh, nothing more.
 
Last edited:

Servo

Formerly Shimei!
LIFETIME MEMBER
You are asking me to redundantly reply to that which I have already answered many times, even on this thread, by using Jesus' Christ's own written words, and not my own.

Is it even possible for you to answer using your own words? The words I was asking for from you were either “yes” or “no”. We both know why you won’t answer.

Jesus said the words He has spoken will be your judge: why isn't that good enough for you? Why do you want to dissemble His doctrine, claiming to know Him, but denying His Words? -and Jesus said His words were not His own, but the Father's, so why do you reject the Father's Words?

Please quit with the obfuscation.


You want me to give you my opinion for you to argue against, but you do not care what Jesus has stated clearly, by the Father's command, which is against your own doctrine.
As a Believer who is in Christ by the second birth I have no authority to go against the Scripture, only the duty to obey Christ, and so do you have that duty if you claim His name, otherwise, you are blaspheming His name to deny His Words.

I asked you if a man humbles himself and repents and asks Christ into his heart and becomes a believer, if he dies and was NEVER water baptized, would that man go to Heaven, Yes or No? And all you can do is claim you have no authority to answer a simple question?

Let’s see if you can answer this question:

Is murder wrong? Yes or no?

I explained why I returned to this site to post against the false doctrine called MAD when I recently returned, which site I took at face value when I first discovered it, believing in simplicity that the board was truly a "Theos' Word" forum; but I discovered that it is here not to promote "Theos' Word" but to promote MAD doctrine, as "C-" so ungraciously stated to me before I left; which doctrine I had never heard of before coming to this board, when I first came in good faith as a born again Believer in Christ.

I went away and learned about it, and what I learned is indeed distressing and puts it in the same camp as all who deny the words of Jesus Christ while accepting man-made contradictions to Jesus' Words, and as long as I am able -or want to- I will point out the false doctrines of MAD, and Watchtower, and of any who deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ as once delivered to the Saints, which Gospel is related to all the world in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and is not a gnostic secret mystery religion only revealed to the initiated societies by wrestings of Scripture in twisted tortuous doctrines of unwashed men.

MAD believes that men and women who humble themselves and repent and ask Christ to forgive them, these people will be forgiven. Our sins were bought and paid for by Christ Himself when He died on the cross and rose again. So you disagree?
 

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
A dispensation in the Bible is the way things were run according to God’s instructions during a certain period of time.

The Dispensation of Grace was given to Paul by the ascended Lord Jesus Christ.

It was a mystery never revealed before God gave it to Paul.

Eph 3:1-11 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles, 2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to enlighten all what is the dispensation of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the purpose of the ages which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord

In Christ,
Bob Hill
 

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
glassman,

The Church of Christ maintains that you have to be water baptized to be saved.

They refer to Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Many of them are biblical scholars. They show that water baptism was even necessary in the epistles. 1 Peter 3:20,21: “who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

They also quote Mark 16:16 “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

So, do we have to be water baptized to be saved, today?

I believe the answer is no, and I have not been water baptized even though I trusted in Jesus Christ as my Savior and have been saved for 58 years.

In Christ,
Bob Hill
 

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
The Baptist pastor usually says you don’t have to be baptized to be saved, but if you become a believer, you should follow the Lord in baptism as an outward sign of an inner work.

They quote Acts 16:31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

They say this shows that the only thing a person must do to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bob Hill
 
Top